Bumsville wrote on Aug 24, 2008 6:18 PM:When our kids were little (late 1990's), we took them to Grape Day park. It was always a great visit. The playground and train were always a sure hit. Now, I hesitate to go near the park unless it is a big event. Too many bums!

wrote on Aug 24, 2008 7:42 PM:I don't know why they would want to make improvements. The homeless are sure to be back at night and of coarse during tha day. I have a young daughter and I have never taken her there it is too scary you never know what can happen.

old_escondido wrote on Aug 24, 2008 8:34 PM:You need $25K to figure out that families avoid the park because of the homeless people, drunks and drug addicts that sleep the days away on the lawn at Grape Day?

Our family visits the park during big events because there is a percieved safety with police presence.

I know the people mentioned in the article. They are good citizens and mean well, but surely they don't need to spend $25,000 to figure out what they should already know about the place- they all spend a great deal of their time working near the park.

Escondeeter wrote on Aug 24, 2008 9:01 PM:Here's a novel idea: Leave it the heck alone.

Every time someone has tried "improve" some aspect of the downtown lately, it's gotten worse. If ever there was an argument for the "first, do no harm" approach, it's Grape Day Park.

Ive got a novel idea wrote on Aug 24, 2008 9:06 PM:Howz about getting rid of the bums, vagrants, hobos and drug dealers and users? This isn't rocket science.

Home-Free wrote on Aug 24, 2008 9:19 PM:This article is about improving the park, not about you bashing people you discriminate against for the way they live (or the color of thier skin? gender?).

Herb wrote on Aug 24, 2008 9:26 PM:I remember taking our toddler there twenty years ago and watching my wife blow bubbles for our little boy, and the bubbles drifting away across the grass. Even then there were hobos. Upgrade the park if you want, but also make it miserable around there for the lay abouts with a constant police presence. I know the ACLU thinks more of the bums than they do families, but something should be done to make the dregs of society not want to be there as a matter of course.

bogie wrote on Aug 24, 2008 9:49 PM:Boy oh boy Home-Free @ 9:19 PM: are you one of those race baiters we hear about just trying to get something started? Nothing about this story or the previous blogs mention anything about "the color of their skin or their gender.

Get a life

Peace

My two cents wrote on Aug 24, 2008 10:04 PM:The list of attractions at Grape Day Park, as reported in your article, are overwhelmingly weighted toward passive, walk through museums.

The Escondido Arts Center across the street is anchored by the Children's museum, downtown Grand Avenue is anchored by both the passive participation Mingei museum and the weekly Cruisin' Grand museum.

There are already too many look-but-don't-touch museums concentrated within the ten block square of downtown Escondido. We don't need anymore of those. No wonder downtown Escondido and its crown jewel, Grape Day Park are not the vibrant, energetic, "must-see" destinations we would all like them to be.

Museums, by their very nature, are designed for the quiet, introspective contemplation of their carefully preserved displays and as such appeal mainly to history buffs, art aficionados or those inclined toward further erudition.

Unfortunately, our City continues to design a downtown economy that appeals mainly and almost solely to a small minority of its general population.

It should not be surprising that such a myopic vision has the very limited mass appeal our downtown needs.

I'm saving my suggestions for improvements to Grape Day park for the public forum.

oldetymer wrote on Aug 24, 2008 10:17 PM:Forty years ago, my dad had a small business in the immediate vicinity of GD Park, and 40 years ago, bums, vagrants, and winos were a more or less constant presence at the park. It was common knowledge among the business community that there was nothing that could be done about it. Some things will never change.

What City wrote on Aug 24, 2008 11:37 PM:The City shouldn't get credit for this one--many folks have come forward in the last year to share the vision for a Greater Grape Day Park, but the City has been dragging along behind--claiming that where there is no money, there should be no vision. Credit to Ken Erickson of Studio E, to several members of the Mayor's library task force, and to Katie and Wendy for keeping this great vision alive. The rush for naming rights for all of the Park's new features has begun.

Advice wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:04 AM:If public input is being sought regarding this upgrade, let me offer the following.

The story reads that Ms. Barker and Ms. Ragazzi were awarded the $25,000 grant. If these two ladies have "control" over the "direction" of the upgrades, then I think that is wonderful. However, if the city has "control" over the "direction", then I say that is NOT wonderful. The reason being is because the city/city council cannot seperate their "visions" of the future (of Anything Escondido) from the decision making process. The "priorities" of the city/city council are THE priority vs the "public's priorities". In other words, if the public's input is really being sought, then tell the city to BUTT OUT - they'll be sure to muck it up!!!

PPLLEEAASSSSEEEE wrote on Aug 25, 2008 1:21 AM:DON'T let Abed or Gallo to decide on this, they don't have idea of what's good for the community!!!

Just an idea wrote on Aug 25, 2008 2:50 AM:They need more things for the kids to do. Perhaps swings upgraded slides- like what Felicita park- rubber flooring, nothing much for the kids to do there.

Frequent park visitor wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:46 AM:The beauty of Grape Day Park is its peaceful, days gone by atmosphere. That's why the homeless feel comfortable there. You might chase out the homeless with a cacaphony of noisy events but you will destroy the park in the process. It's a no win situation unless we figure out a way to eliminate poverty.

Innocent Bystander wrote on Aug 25, 2008 6:06 AM:Pave and stripe it. Apparently, with the Parking Permits Program, and No Parking on Grand Ave during Cruisin' Grand policies, we're gonna need the parking spaces.

Stumped wrote on Aug 25, 2008 6:09 AM:"Must See", Central Park, NYC ok. Golden Gate Park, SF ok. Balboa Park, SD ok. Grape Day Park, Escondido, I don't thik so! It sounds to me there are "city officials" who don't have a job and are making work. Escondido is not a destination!

deedee wrote on Aug 25, 2008 6:55 AM:AFRAID! to go to the park, even in the afternoon. Save the $25,000 you have the answer, too many people are AFRAID to use the park!

soaring eagle wrote on Aug 25, 2008 7:03 AM:PPLLEEAASSSSEEEE do not listen to the whiner PPLLEEAASSSSEEEE

KAB wrote on Aug 25, 2008 7:22 AM:When I was growing up, police officers would gently (and sometimes no so gently) billy club the bums who used to (and still do) hang around Grape Day Park. I would never take my children to this disgusting place where bums congregate all day. Letting the bums camp there all day is an insult to tax paying Escondidians and does no favor to the "homeless" either...

vc wrote on Aug 25, 2008 7:23 AM:The park looks beautiful but it is not safe. The only improvement it needs is to get rid of the gangs and drugees so the rest of us could use the park. Just like downtown escondido, why put in a Marriot in a place where it's not safe to be out after dark?

Bill wrote on Aug 25, 2008 7:42 AM:It's too bad they raised half of what the park used to be! Seemed like there were always people down there watching ball games back in the day.

George wrote on Aug 25, 2008 7:52 AM:Like it or not, people don't go to the park because of the people who hang out there. The homeless and the gangs and the drug dealers. Like it or not, people won't go where large groups of mexicans congregate!
Look at the two pictures offered with this article. 2 mexicans in each one. Has anyone in this town ever seen a scandinavian gang around here? The law has helped our citizens to become afraid to go out...by not protecting them, by allowing these people to break the law. The illegals have no fear of the law here. That's a fact!

Ole wrote on Aug 25, 2008 7:58 AM:I work near the park but would't set foot there for the panhandlers, drug addicts, needles and trash. The city has made it a haven for the homeless.
It would make a good site for a parking garage.

Mayor Cheese wrote on Aug 25, 2008 8:01 AM:First and foremost - remove the bums, drunks, addicts, illegals from the park, and get the child molesters out of the restrooms. Then, add another playstructure that is more typical. That would be a great improvement. Also, maybe some interactive water exhibits.

Brian wrote on Aug 25, 2008 8:14 AM:As usual, the NC Times and the City of Escondido love to obfuscate the real issue: homeless vagrants and illegal immigrants hang out in that park and drink, do drugs, urinate and defecate and basically live there. The homeless drop their trash everywhere, mutter gibberish to themselves and are generally unpleasant to be around. I love the pictures of the "men" using the park that are supposed to evoke warm feelings. The reality is all too evident but the ACLU will ensure that the park, paid for by taxpayers, is only fit to be used by the aforementioned types of people....who wouldn't want to walk around the park with their kids? What a joke.

I know wrote on Aug 25, 2008 8:36 AM:Miss North County Wet Tee Shirt contest.

why wrote on Aug 25, 2008 10:25 AM:would I go some place like this where men can leer at my daughter ? I moved to No. County in 2001, saw this park once and that's enough. No thanks. I don't need large groups of soccer players or homeless bums checkin out my kid.

Nancy wrote on Aug 25, 2008 10:36 AM:I would try to make it more of a park by restoring the Escondido creek that runs through it. I like the train and old buildings.

Is that art wrote on Aug 25, 2008 10:57 AM:You might look at removing the granite stumbling blocks (lawsuits waiting to happen) that are scattered throughout the grass. Did we pay for those?

Mother wrote on Aug 25, 2008 11:01 AM:I used to help run a program at the park, and 95% of the homeless there were kind, friendly, and pleasant to be around. We never felt frightened by them. Unfortunately, the other 5%, the junkies, ruin it for everyone else. If those in charge want to improve the park, find a safe, good place for the homeless to go.

And George, the violent 5% I'm talking about were ALL WHITE.

Clyde wrote on Aug 25, 2008 11:02 AM:Sounds like a grate idear to mee. I be lookin fourward to havin my bayroom and baffroom alls updated like. Is jus not all dat cumfertable lately.

Jack wrote on Aug 25, 2008 11:19 AM:The only time I go there is for the Art Center program in August. There are lots of normal people there to just enjoy the concert. Get the Mexican gang members out and maybe people will come back.

Nick wrote on Aug 25, 2008 11:31 AM:Are you people serious? You destroyed Grapeday when you paved over the old softball fields. That was the best the park has ever been. But you had to go and build the concrete coffin you call the Art Center and pave a parking lot for all the cars that DON'T come. Does anybody remember all of the kids playing in the park during softball games and all of the families that used to picnic in the outfields? The city of Escondido has proven only one thing over the years "If we build it...it will die"

common sense wrote on Aug 25, 2008 11:35 AM:I got an idea, it's in line with the local officals who represent Escondido...affordable housing, or better yet, tents for all homeless. It's cheaper than $25k. Have a tent give-away!!! I can't believe it takes $25K for figure it out, just goes to show you how messed up Escondido is, they should have extended hwy 78 to really divide that area from everything else. It's an arm pit of a park, you name me a good park that escondido has, outside of the cementary.

Deanna wrote on Aug 25, 2008 11:51 AM:First, the city has got to deal with the homeless first, the city must have people who go out and help these people find a place to stay, food, clothing etc.so they don't have to be in the park. If they loiter chase them out!

Secondly, have the police go under cover and find out whose dealing drugs in this park and arrest them.

Thirdly, form a committee of business folks that are near the park, invite those that you think would come to the park, a mom with small children for instance, a student perhaps, a senior citizens, young men who might play baseball there etc...get a cross mixed of people to come up with suggestions.

Thirdly, contact other cities that have experience this type of problem in there own cities and what did they do to correct it.

Lastly, In my opinion, the park is not the problem, its this city that for whatever reason, has let itself go to ruin, it needs a overhaul. It needs flowers and trees and new paint, it needs its streets and sidewalks cleaned every week! Who picks up trash thrown out on the side of the roadways? Who repairs sidewalks? Does this city have district councilmen? If not, why not? No one is responsible for 'areas' of the city, or so it appears.Once you beautify the city you will bring in more upscale folks...but, you have to start some place.

Chubton wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:08 PM:Hey, doesn't this sound like the Council looking for justification for their little pet projects - e.g. hotel, downtown condos, parking, etc?
I mean, to be a destination park it should have something like 100+ acres, shouldn't it?
The Council needs to focus on attracting high paying jobs and not another art project.

Brian said it perfectly wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:12 PM:I cannot imagine taking a child to that park. I took my niece and these dirty old men were gesturing at a innocent 4 yr old. There are more than bums and illegal aliens and drug dealers in the park... clean up the illegal alien problem and give our city back to us.

Kidding right wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:17 PM:Please, get out and look. You don't need any improvements. It is a very nice park now. Don't need to spend any money. All you need to do is get the homeless, bums etc out. How about getting the Marriott built and move them into that as I am sure they will have plenty vacancies.

OLE wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:25 PM:Dear Home Free,
The article is about getting people to use the park. The average citizen won't go there if they don't feel safe. I used to shop at the market across the street from the park but stopped because of harrassment from the bums from the park.

Jest wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:44 PM:clean er up and git er dun!

st Hand wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:56 PM:I sat on a jury that involved a crime at GD Park. I can say first hand that crimes do occur in the park. Crimes that involve alcohol, drugs, sexual misconduct occur there frequently.
I think the best use of the $25K could be to use it to CLEAN UP the park first. Maybe more of a police presence would help.
I say give the money to EPD and tell them to 'get the trash out' of GD Park.

to Bogie from home-free wrote on Aug 25, 2008 1:37 PM:I stated what the article was about - I repeat - improving the park. My statement "what the article is about" could not be more simple nor clear.

Wine tasting wrote on Aug 25, 2008 1:39 PM:Port, Ripple or Madd Dog!

Bubbles wrote on Aug 25, 2008 1:52 PM:Get rid of the skels without offending the ACLU and the Chamber of Zitizens. How? Fence the park in. Run a pony ride and a petting zoo to go with the playground. Allow children and adults accompanying children in for free, charge all others $10 admission.

th Street wrote on Aug 25, 2008 2:33 PM:I cannot believe our city council, my street where I live is full of potholes that desperately need repair, you literally need a 4X4 vehicle in order to drive seven blocks of pubic street. I have sent the city council several letters complaining about the conditions of my street yet nothing has been done in the past three years that I lived there. Why is it they have money to conduct meaningless studies, 25K to conclude that our small downtown park will never attack anyone else other than homeless people, and another ridiculous amount is being spent to determine that a 6 story hotel is useless in Escondido. Now I understand why there is no money to repair the street where I live. Escondido council, why don’t you wake up from your fantasy dream, if you would like to improve our city start with the streets that taxpayers are using on a daily basis.

bonefish wrote on Aug 25, 2008 2:56 PM:yea i wish that the escondido council did better things then waste money.

Heather wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:52 PM:Wow, what a bunch of angry/bitter people. To stereotype every homeless person into one negative category. Have any of you actually stopped and had a conversation with one of these "bum's" - and actually listened to their story? They aren't all druggies/wino's, etc.

Grape Day is a beautiful park, and it would be more welcoming to families if they had more family oriented attractions available. Like an actual playground and/or sprayground. Perhaps a little train ride attraction (to pay homage to the old train depot). If the park had something like that, I really do think more families would visit Grape Day park - even if some homeless people were having a nap on the grass.

Public Humiliation wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:57 PM:Will drive out the bums. Bring back the pilgrim days of stocks and put them right there in the middle of Grape Day Park. People will come for miles just to finally see people get what is coming to them.

bogie wrote on Aug 25, 2008 4:26 PM:to Bogie from home-free @ 1:37 PM:. I beg to differ. It is not clear to me. What were you insinuating with the line"(or the color of thier skin? gender?). "I stated what the article was about - I repeat - improving the park."

Okay, then why the racist statement

EscoWatchDog wrote on Aug 25, 2008 7:05 PM:Who will want to attend a park that put restrictions on parking? Only 2 hours? Get real.

a newcomber desc wrote on Aug 26, 2008 1:43 AM:I hear all the complaints about the park. Agreed. The park needs cleaned up. So why don't the people join together and assist in this with the police? All I hear is complaining. TAKE BACK THE "Community" PARK. Activity alone will shuffle them out. As far as ideas, if you want what's best for the children. ASK A CHILD. They will normally not be blinded by the amount of hatred and animosity. A great majority of the children seem to co-exist just great. It's some of the Adults that have issues.
Back to the Kids...
As far as the PARK? I would recommend a "CONTEST" This would include Elementary,Junior High and High School Students. "The Future of Grape Day Park". Offer an $800 scholarship to the winner of each of the grade levels Totaling only $2400. This can be paid by the COE or through the donations as follows. The Plan must include a rough drawing or model showing what they would like to see and do most with the park. There must be guidelines decided as to what can't go there physically. City will provide a plat of the Park to the DBA to make copies for all the entries. Since it is for the people we can have it judged by THE PEOPLE OF ESCONDIDO the day of viewing and then immediately vote for the one. The entries can be displayed at one of the many parks each with a number assigned and have 1 winner from each level. The one with the most votes wins. We can have a huge BBQ AND PLAY for families. Donations can be accepted for "GRAPE DAY PARK" improvements. I would recommend that it be held at Kit Carson Park as it has the size and parking to handle this event size of event. This could be done off the clock and Sponsored by the DBA as they will gain huge benefits from this when all is complete. The monies can come from a number of Groups including the DBA and since it promotes children to get involved in both a scholastic and community level, that would be wonderful for all involved. Everyone wins. I’m sure we can get enough donations to put in equipment or whatever else is needed. We need what is practical and within reach. It would need to be sustainable on its own quickly as to NOT cost the city money a large amount of money.

Local wrote on Aug 26, 2008 3:29 AM:I have noticed that the park is becoming a safe haven for idle day laborers. And they are becoming more agressive in the daytime. I wouldn't be caught dead in the park at night. The city allowed this to happen. They just want to emulate the big cities such as San Francisco. Yes we are a bastion of tolerance and we will fall down on our sword. Whatever. What you sow, so shall you reap.

Bring in muggers wrote on Aug 26, 2008 8:00 AM:like they do in New York. At least someone will be able to enjoy the park.

januaryM wrote on Aug 26, 2008 6:13 PM:Barker and Ragazzi were awarded a $25,000 grant this summer from the San Diego Foundation to cover a part-time employee to manage the forums and coordinate the public surveys.
-----------------------------------
Okay so who's relative got the job with the $25K part time salary?
januaryM
___________________
Please dont make anymore messes in this town until you clean up whats already here.
januaryM

Mr.ED wrote on Aug 26, 2008 6:34 PM:To Bubbles,
We don't need pony's for children to ride at Grape Day Park. We can just send over the City Council. They can give pony rides until they have paid back the $8.9 million deficit in full. We won't have to feed them like ponys. The developers have them trained by hanging out a carrot on a string already. While they are at it maybe they could also raise that $18 million gift to the wealthy hotel developer.
Now that would be earning your pension benefits!

Dennis wrote on Aug 26, 2008 10:19 PM:30 years ago, they had a great yellow band stand, or a stage if you want. And a big pool, they have made a new pool, they took out the stage and a number of bars to make city hall as it is now, I would like to keep it like it is, in a few years its going to be one of the few open spaces downtown, homeless people are not the problem, druggies, gang bangers are. You can keep kicking the homeless because city MCP Code forbids loritering where are you going to sit?? dont give me answers that there is till you clean up Quince and Mission

I am homeless. wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:16 PM:I am educated and employed. I also find peace in the parks, where ignorant, hateful snobs dare not go. Yes, please stay away from the parks and keep your vile hatred in your homes with your families, thank you.

Local wrote on Aug 27, 2008 4:58 AM:Part of my soul is with the homeless who find solace in the park. Who were they before they became homeless? I would like to suggest that an area be set aside for a garden (vegetable and ornamental) for the homeless to tend. People need to feel that they have worth. Give them the chance to prove it. This could be our chance to reach out and give hope to the hopeless. Please don't sqaunder the 25 g's on more worthless and endless studies.

Wondering wrote on Aug 27, 2008 8:26 AM:if we've lost the ability to dream and to hustle to make dreams come true in Escondido. A park can be for all. Surely it is good that regular red-blooded Americans invested in Escondido through the San Diego Foundation, which wants all of its ArtWorks projects (there are 7 others) to act as seed money so local groups can find new ways to work together to improve their community.

The Answer Is Right In Front Of Them wrote on Aug 27, 2008 4:04 PM:There is one reason and one reason only why Grape Day Park has gone to the dregs: INTERFAITH COMMUNITY SERVICES. ICS continues to feed, shelter and serve active homeless addicts and alcoholics.

The City Council HAS the answer that could clean up Grape Day Park but they won't do it because they have helped create the monster called Interfaith Community Services.

There is a solution, all one has to do is look at other local communities and what they have done. The NC Times supports this nonprofit big time, so I highly doubt this will even be published.

to bogie wrote on Aug 27, 2008 4:19 PM:I hear that you do not understand what I initially wrote. What did I write that you percieve to be racist? People in these comments are writing about the homeless with a disdain akin to the Nazi attitudes towards people of Jewish faith. I clarify: please know that I am not Nazi simply because the word is in this comment. I am one of many educated, employed homeless. I volunteer with various organizations. I have a YMCA membership. I don't drink, and I don't ask for handouts. I pick up the trash in the park that home-dwellers leave behind. Why hate people simply because they don't sleep in a building? It's silly.

local business owner wrote on Aug 27, 2008 4:30 PM:The problem is not the homeless. Crime is crime, and, it occurs all over the city. We have laws against that. They just need to be enforced. Perhaps, in the light of gas prices, two uniformed officers on bicycles would be in order, to take care of grand, grape day and the surrounding area. It would seem though, that the number one concern about the park, is safety. That needs to be addressed, and, can be done with fewer dollars then major capital improvements. As to specific improvements, with commercial available on Grand to serve visitors, I believe special events, designed to draw people to the park is in order. Regular Concerts, perhaps a winter ice rink, and a regular draw such as a carousel or small train, will create a consistent use of the park. Eventually, it would be nice to add square footage by adding additional properties from surrounding the park, that currently, are in a dilapitdated condition (and, currently for sale, I might add).

Concerned citizen wrote on Aug 31, 2008 8:32 AM:While I respect those involved with wanting to make changes in Grape Day park, I don't know if the image that most people carry with Grape Day will disappear. That is a scary park and there is not other way to put it. My family has actually tried going there several times. Once we took a camera to take pictures of the kids playing and some homeless people started yelling at us and actually KICKED US OUT! I won't go there without my husband. While it is an amazing park nothing will change as long as it is a homeless person hang out and drug addict meeting place.