David wrote on Aug 4, 2006 9:51 AM:Fact 1: Illegal mmigration is against the law. Fact 2: Illegal immigration is costly to tax payers. Fact 3: A legal, organized guest worker program is required. Fact 4: The real problem is the Mexican government. Fact 5: A fence will help, but not solve the problem. Fact 6: Opposing groups cause more problems than do more good.

Fact 7 wrote on Aug 4, 2006 12:25 PM:Neo-cons will continue to cast votes by party line without regard to issues, so Bushites have no reason to waiver from their pro-immigration (legal or illegal) stance, because they know their "core" either are not smart enough or willing to hold them accountable.

Just the Facts Mamam wrote on Aug 4, 2006 1:38 PM:Fact 1: Illegal immigration is against the law. Facts 2 - 200,000: See Fact 1.

Sandy K wrote on Aug 4, 2006 3:01 PM:Fact7 is dead wrong. Although I don't consider myself a "Neo-con," I am a conservative. I voted for George Bush (twice) and have contributed to the Republican party. I have also written numerous emails, faxes, and made many phone calls to every representative and to the president protesting amnesty (by any name) and acceptance of illegal immigration. I have also written my thanks to those who have taken a stand against illegal immigration. I have returned requests for money to the Republican party with "no mas" written across the request and stated that it is obvious they only understand Spanish and we will not send another dime. So...Fact7, I don't think you really know what the rest of us will or won't do to hold our elected officials accountable. What have you done?

David wrote on Aug 4, 2006 8:28 PM:Fact 7 is the typical liberal who does not have a clue about the true "neo-con." A true neo-con supports the candidate, the politician, the group, and the political party (which is rarely the democrats) that meets the ideals and goals that a true neo-con believes in which just happen to be the exact opposite of the immoral, unpatriotic, anti-United States, cowardly ideals and goals of the liberals.

Roberto wrote on Aug 4, 2006 9:50 PM:Comprehensive immigration reform. Anyhing else is just pissing in the wind. I'm a conservative and I believe market forces will drive issues such as farm labour. Get rid of illegals without a comprehensive contingency plan and your back to square one. Sneaking around working doesn't nor will it ever carry the xenophobic agenda path forward for very long IMO. To put it simple...supply & demand, you succeed at removing cheap farm labour and it will move south along with many jobs that support these jobs....

mikey g wrote on Aug 4, 2006 11:26 PM:who the heck cares what your label is...ooohhhh yer a neolib...our country is being taken over. it is both sides letting it happen. the powers that be have no concerns for the struggles of the masses. the allowance of the influx of illegals is simple to create a larger workforce, to be taxed, to pay for their largess (be it entitlements or projects or pork barrel) every year at april 15 the politicos tout how "much" they "paid" in taxes. HELLO...they are paid in tax dollars. wake up

Miguel wrote on Aug 5, 2006 11:50 AM:Secure the borders, return most illegals to their homeland, Focus on Employers of illegals, amend the 14th amendment to stop automatic citizenship for illegal parents, improve a guest worker program for all immigrating nations, not just those south of our borders, send Mexico a bill for the costs of the services their citizens receive and the costs of returning their citizens.

JayGee wrote on Aug 5, 2006 1:07 PM:Rebuttal: Fact 1: People are not illegal. Their action may be but not them. Fact 2: Undocumented workers make more money for the economy than what is spent on them. Fact 3: An organized guest worker program legalizes the country's obstruction of the labor laws and hiring practices. Fact 4: Mexicans are not the only immigrants. Fact 5: A fence is already in place. Would you consider that "spending money on them" or national security? Think about it! Fact 6: Opposing groups add flavor to the unsavory lifestyle that you neo-cons pretend to live.

to jaygee wrote on Aug 5, 2006 2:23 PM:Fact 1: Illegal Immigrants are referred to "Illegals", get over it. Fact 2: UW's don't make any money for the economy, they make it for their families, remember? Fact 3: Guest worker program is Racist as only Latinos (98%) will benefit. Fact 4: Which nationality are the most illegals? Fact 6: Neo-cons, Xenophobes, Racists, all words used when legitimate, valid arguments are not available for intelligent dialog.

JayGee rebuttal wrote on Aug 5, 2006 2:30 PM:Fact 1: The act is what we are talking about and what this all about. Fact 2: Once again - another case of which poll, which report, which point of view you care to believe. Fact 3: "country's obstruction of the labor laws and hiring practices." What obstruction? Fact 4: Duh - really Fact 5: Neocons would consider it national security by protecting the most open and exploited border we have. Fact 6: Opposing groups add to the immoral, anti-United States acts, self-destructive behavior that the liberals are so fond of that we try so hard to defend our children and our country from. Question for JayGee: Why are you so bent on the destruction of our country?

JayGee wrote on Aug 5, 2006 5:57 PM:I have never read such unintelligent responses in any of these comments! The first one argued "illegals are referred as illegals, get over it!" Wow! There are many illegal crimes that are committed by citizens of this country yet we do not refer to them as illegal. Face it, they are undocumented workers much like a murderer is a murderer. The other "rebuttal" suggests that "illegal immigration" is "self destructive". I have never met a single immigrant that migrates because they know they are going to do wrong to themselves. In conclusion, I would like to explain to you that I am not bent on the destruction of this country. I am about equality and about human rights. By spreading hatred to other people you are the one that believes on the destruction of this country.

to jaygee wrote on Aug 5, 2006 7:42 PM:The first one argued "Illegal IMMIGRANTS are referred to as "Illegals", get over it." This makes your next three or four sentences completely moot, talk about unintelligent! You cannot be about equality as long as you think one culture can self-immigrate while no-others can! Are you for all human rights or just those who abuse our laws, enter illegally, and come from South of our borders etc...? You are not just "short sighted", you are nearly blind to reality. Grow up and come back later.

JayGee to: to jaygee wrote on Aug 5, 2006 8:46 PM:If you read any of my comments you'll notice that I have never mentioned that only culture should immigrate. I said I stand for human rights and I do. I have never separated the ethnicities on my comments and will continue to follow my respect for everyone. I hope I have not disappointed you by coming back so soon.

Fact-O-Rama wrote on Aug 5, 2006 10:11 PM:How in the world can either David and JayGee claim "fact 2"? I seriously doubt there's any way to prove whether or not illegal immigrants add more to the American economy than they suck away. At best, you might make a convincing argument for one or the other. But David and JayGee aren't doing even that. And as long as hard-headed people mistake their assumptions for facts, this online forum is just a shouting match that makes everyone angry.

Robert24 wrote on Aug 6, 2006 8:57 AM:Fact 1: Mexicans are all illegal, Fact 2: everyone has it out for Mexicans, Fact 3:all mexicans are criminals, Fact 4: I am from Pluto. Do I believe any of this? No. Do I believe that we have a big problem with illegal aliens? Yes. What is my point? JayGee, how can you come up with all of these fictitious, non supported "facts" and put them out here like they are gospel? Then you come back and say you have never read such unintelligent responses. I have never read such an unintelligent, uninformed post with such made up "facts" before! I'll bet you want to put a program in place to teach child molesters to care for our children 'cuz they are not really doing anything "illegal" by their actions (remember, people are not illegal, the action is)and they obviously love kids. You are a warped individual.

Not illegal? wrote on Aug 6, 2006 10:22 AM:JayGee wrote on 851p says that :"Rebuttal: Fact 1: People are not illegal. Their action may be but not them." Is this how it goes JayGee? Pedophiles may molest children, but they are not illegal. Arsonists may set fires, but they are not illegal. Here is a real life lesson JG - people are often characterized by their actions. If you object to the use of illegal alien, then by all means use the longer and more complete term "foreign nationals who violate our national sovereignty by entering, working and living in our nation illegally" That is quite a mouthful, and shorthand for those people engaging in those illegal acts is "illegal alien" 861020a

Invading culture wrote on Aug 6, 2006 10:26 AM:I can’t imagine a culture in the world that wouldn’t feel a little sense of loss when they see the town or village they grew up in changing right before their eyes. The language, the food, the customs, its all part of you. Its only natural. Nobody is immune to these feelings, but because of political correctness, Americans, particularly white Americans are demonized for these feelings, where other cultures may be sympathized with. When that change is mostly a result of people who are coming into the country illegally, why wouldn’t it just increase those feelings? The sense of nostalgia turns into a sense of betrayal when you’re own government is allowing this to happen. It also, justified or not, will naturally result in anger toward the “invading” culture.

Here is the money quote: wrote on Aug 6, 2006 10:32 AM:“Economic growth does not require a constant increase in the number of uneducated laborers.” Precisely. Study after study has shown that illegal immigrants make a contribution so small as to be statistically insignificant, within the margins of a rounding error, if you will. Any marginal increase in the GDP is captured almost completely by the illegals themselves and their employers - and let’s not forget that these people send a disproportionate % of their income back home, robbing our economy of the multiplier effect that occurs when money is spent in the community where it’s earned. People like George Bush who continue to insist that our economy needs an ever-larger supply of unskilled labor to thrive are economic illiterates, dishonest, or both. People have been taking them at face value when they insist that the arguments for a loose immigration policy are primarily economic, and maybe it’s time to nail them on this. Take away the ecomomic aspect, and all the other side has to prop up its argument is that we get (a) an abundance of interesting ethnic restaurants and music, (b) cultural and ethnic diversity, and (c) perhaps an assuaging of some misguided guilt over the success that we have had versus less fortunate (read: more screwed up) countries. In other words, the arguments are very, very weak and no sensible person should buy them.

JayGee wrote on Aug 6, 2006 5:05 PM:Robert24, first you fail to read that my comment was a rebuttal to all of the facts. Second, you make a ridiculous comment by saying that I would support child molesters caring for our children. I can't believe anyone would even think of even saying that. I think the warped individual is someone else. I do agree with you that this is becoming a shouting match and therefore, I am done.

Frida wrote on Aug 6, 2006 5:24 PM:I am with you JayGee. This comfortable lifestyle that many Americans have is made possible by those who pick up the hard jobs and make it a comfortable for others. Remember and this goes to everyone, we live in a comfortable setting because others are beign oppressed to make our lives more comfortable.

To Robert24 wrote on Aug 6, 2006 5:57 PM:Are you being sarcastic about fact: 1. Because my family migrated legally and I was born in the US.

Roberto wrote on Aug 7, 2006 5:41 AM:You can't stop development or migration. The xenophobia riding on the coat tails of the illegal immigration issue won't stop change. Comprehensive immigration reform, anything else is doomed to fail.

Robert24 wrote on Aug 7, 2006 6:59 AM:TO ToRobert24; of course this was all sarcastic. Because your family migrated here legally, I applaud you. They did things the way they are supposed to be done, and deserve all of the rights and benefits of this country. The ones who sneak over under the cover of darkness, abuse the system and demand unearned rights are the ones who need to go back and start over. Thank you and your family for doing this right. And, JayGee, sorry if I read your post incorrectly. I just get so tired of the folks that think they can rationalize illegal actions by trying to put a human spin on things. Illegal actions earn legal reactions. The illegal immigrants need to go back and enter legally. America will handle the "labor void" these illegal folks leave behind with no problem.

John wrote on Aug 7, 2006 7:32 AM:Why dont we just vote theese self serving dirtbags out of office? What ever happened to Prop.187?

Cold Hard Facts wrote on Aug 7, 2006 9:58 AM:Interestingly, there have been few hard core studies examining the real expense of illegal immigration to the American taxpayer. Ever wonder why the hospitals, like Tri-City, don't really know how much they write off serving the indigents versus serving the illegals? There are multiple studies indicating the cost to educate one illegal from kindergarten to graduation costs $100,000. Here in Mexcondido, it is $40 per day per student. If we instituted a two pronged attack, fine the businesses severely and make them pay back taxes for the hiring of illegals and simply make the illegals pay for the services they use, we could start to stop the flow and secure our borders. Business doesn't want the public to know what percentage of their profits come from the ill gotten gains of hiring illegals. The government really doesn't want the taxpayer to know how much we're really spending to educate and provide health care to illegals. The numbers would probably cause a middle class revolt!

Yer Dreamin' wrote on Aug 7, 2006 1:34 PM:Anyone who thinks a fence is going to stop the illegal immigration problem is dreaming. These people are DESPERATE--they are so poor and without hope that most of us can't even comprehend it. This is why many of them risk (and lose)their lives coming here to work at these wretched jobs for slave wages. As long as these reprehensible conditions exist in Mexico, they will keep coming. Forget the amnesty (aka guest worker program), forget the streamlined immigration process, none of that is going to do a thing. Mexico needs a bloody revolution. The people there need to rise up and reclaim their own country instead of whittling away at ours.

Rise Up? wrote on Aug 7, 2006 4:25 PM:Hey thats a good idea! Why don't we the PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, rise up and claim our country for our own!

John wrote on Aug 7, 2006 5:55 PM:Wake up America ,weve been invaded.

To coldhard facts wrote on Aug 7, 2006 6:13 PM:I thought is was Escondildo. I haven't heard of Mexcondido. But then again Escondido is Spanish for Hidden Valley.

To coldhard facts wrote on Aug 7, 2006 6:45 PM:I thought is was Escondildo. I haven't heard of Mexcondido. But then again Escondido is Spanish for Hidden Valley.

To Roberto wrote on Aug 7, 2006 7:13 PM:Is your vocabulary so limited that the only word you know is xenophobic? Or do you have some sort of copulsive disorder?

Don't comment here wrote on Aug 8, 2006 4:19 AM:Very, very, very touchy. Why bother?

Joke? wrote on Aug 8, 2006 8:17 AM:I thought I heard a joke on the radio, but its not. Our Governemt who allows open borders and no deportation of illegal immigrants, is now telling the American people to go to the Homeland Security website and get information on how to protect OUR families during a terrorist attack on American soil. This is too much, its time to imprision all politicians, Rebulicans and Democrats for treason. The American people are fed up!! This is the last straw now we have to defend our lives and families lives when the terrorist stirke us at home. Yet our Politicians are around the world trying to defeat terrorism while we are being attacked at home. Deport Illegals and Prision for Politicans.

Laid back Surfer wrote on Aug 8, 2006 9:56 AM:Yer Dreamin, You are correct in your comments. One of my biggest complaints about President Bush is that he did not openly criticize Mexico's leadership. One of the greatest events that will likely occur in my lifetime was when President Reagan stood at the Berlin Wall and gave his speach calling on Gorbechev to tear down the wall. Mexico could be one of the wealthiest countries in the world within twenty years. All they would have to do is embrace total freedom like they did in Hong Kong. Hong Kong does not have the natural resources of Mexico and it was not located next to the United States. President Bush should stand on the border and say to President Fox (or Calderon)that if he loves his people he would slash oppressive taxes, repeal business regulations, remove restrictions on property ownership and stengthen property rights including intellectual property rights. They should give all Mexicans in Mexico an ownership interest in entities owned by the goverment such as Pemex to privatize all state owned companies. Freedom works!!

Spanish 101 wrote on Aug 8, 2006 11:07 AM:Escondido is Spanish for "Hidden". The gringo's could not pronounce the Valle very well, they shortened it. In short, "Valle Escondido" is "Hidden Valley". Just keeping it real.

RBurgundy wrote on Aug 8, 2006 11:30 AM:Laid back, that is just silly. Hong Kong is a city first of all - private enterprise would be hard-pressed to find a profit interest in developing the vast rural areas of Mexico. That's the main problem isn't it - creating the infrastructure that fosters a vibrant economy so that rural workers will not be forced north? But more importantly what makes you think privatizing oil will help them at all - shoot it's only backfiring here in the good ol USA. I have to point out that the only way to actually "give all Mexicans in Mexico an ownership interest in entities" is for them to be owned by the people's government. But, of course, you only meant to give them the IDEA that they could own an interest in those enterprises - no matter how false that idea might be in reality.

Kerry wrote on Aug 8, 2006 11:41 AM:Spanish 101: Who cares what the word means. In a while the city is going to mean no renting to illegals, no jobs, and deportation. Entiendes amigo?

Pat wrote on Aug 8, 2006 12:01 PM:My main problem with the people crossing the border is that they want us to learn there language instead of them learning ours. If they want to speak Spanish then fine stay in Mexico or speak it in your home, but do not expect us to learn your language. They want to live here, then pay for your own medical, food and housing not live on food stamps and expect us to pay to educate your children we have our own to educate. I am not please with the envasion of our borders, but a fence is not going to stop it. Not many of our own people want to do farm labor for the low wages, but they need to pay taxes on the wages we do pay them. Make the illegal immigrants file for citizen ship, if they can not pass the test then send them back to Mexico and if they cross the border again it is a prison term for them. I am tired of how poor there country is, they are the only ones that change it. They come here to earn money and then send it back home. TELL THEM TO LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH TO LIVE HERE. IF THEY DO NOT WANT TO THEN SEND THEM BACK TO MEXICO WHERE THEY CAN SPEAK THERE LANGUAGE ALL THEY WANT.

Laid back Surfer wrote on Aug 8, 2006 12:29 PM:RBurgundy, I only posted an idea that works. Your socialist ideal never worked anywhere and never will. For another example I offer Estonia: When Mart Laar took the reins of power of the newly independent country in 1992, he was only 32 years old, and Estonia was struggling to heal from the wounds of Soviet occupation. Laar believed that the way to ensure success for Estonia was to cultivate freedom and self-determination. In only two years in office, he negotiated the withdrawal of Russian troops from Estonian soil and introduced the kroon, one of Eastern Europe's most stable currencies. He also instituted a flat tax rate, a move which has been widely copied—even in Russia. Under Laar, Estonia removed price controls, discounted useless regulations, and saw the largest real per capita income of any of the former Communist states. But as Laar, who served two terms as prime minister, has pointed out, he is not an economist: "I had read only one book on economics—Milton Friedman's Free to Choose. I was so ignorant at the time that I thought that what Friedman wrote about the benefits of privatization, the flat tax and the abolition of all customs rights, was the result of economic reforms that had been put into practice in the West. It seemed common sense to me and, as I thought it had already been done everywhere, I simply introduced it in Estonia, despite warnings from Estonian economists that it could not be done. They said it was as impossible as walking on water. We did it: we just walked on the water because we did not know that it was impossible."

Dan (Temecula) wrote on Aug 8, 2006 6:54 PM: I find it hard to believe but it is true that 2 Latino border patrol agents in Texas have been prosecuted and found guilty for shooting an illegal who shot at them 1st.(He was shot in the butt) Not only did they find 100 of pounds or tons not sure, of drugs. They say they violated this illegal's 4th admendment. So now that the border patrol agents have been found guilty and will be sentenced up to 20 years in August there is a civil suit for 5 million against the border patrol for shooting the illegal in the buttocks.(Really sueing us taxpayers)Plus being that the defendants were found guilty he will most likely win the civil suit. All the time these fine agents who have been convicted of dueing there job (and one who was to receive the border patrol agent of the 2005 year intill the charges came about) have shown us taxpayers that crime does pay, and we support illegals over are service men. They have since granted the illegal drug traffiker with amnesty, and we the tax payer covered his hospital bill. If you would like to help donate money to these fine young Latino agents who haven't been paid in over a year, go onto www.kfi640.com and click onto the link-friends of the border patrol. Plus they are setting up a way to contact this judge who will sentence these men, so please help anyway you can!

Roberto wrote on Aug 8, 2006 9:30 PM:"To Roberto wrote on August 07, 2006 7:13 PM:"Is your vocabulary so limited that the only word you know is xenophobic? Or do you have some sort of copulsive disorder?" REPLY: Don't you have anything else to do than wonder about my vocabulary teach?

Yeah Roberto wrote on Aug 9, 2006 9:45 AM:get a new word...it is over used and has no meaning here!

Laid back Surfer wrote on Aug 9, 2006 9:50 AM:John wrote on August 07, 2006 7:32 AM:"Why dont we just vote theese self serving dirtbags out of office? What ever happened to Prop.187?" John, if you are serious you do have a choice to do just that in November. In the 73rd Assembly District the Democratic Party failed to get a candidate on the ballot. But it will take work.

Laura wrote on Aug 10, 2006 8:53 AM:Regarding Pam's comment, August 8, 2006 concerning illegal immigrants and the fact that they should learn English. I agree, Pam, everyone should learn English if they live here. So to that end, Pam, maybe you should learn English too. Your spelling is embarrassing. I suggest taking an English class before you ever decide to write a comment concerning English again. You say they want us to learn "there" language. The correct version would be "their" language. You state the word incorrectly at least two more times. The word "can not" is incorrect. The word "citizen ship" is incorrect. The word "envasion" is incorrect. Your punctuation is atrocious. Your tense is unbelievable. I think if you were to take an English class today, I'm afraid you wouldn't pass. So, Pam, again, I am in agreement with everyone learning English, but, please, if you're going to preach about English, learn it yourself first.

Greg wrote on Aug 10, 2006 1:07 PM:This is only a natural response to the unwillingness of all levels of government to enforce the laws and secure the border. To those of you "pro illegals" out there. Quit trying to play the race card. It doesn't hold water. This has nothing to do with race. It would be wise to remember that not all the illegals coming over the border want to mow your lawn. Terrorists are (not may be) coming that way also.

OC Mountain Biker wrote on Aug 10, 2006 1:46 PM:Laid back Surfer, I assume you are referring to supporting Andy Favor in the 73rd Assembly race. Good guy. May be a bit strong in supporting the cross at Mt. Soledad. I guess he used to camp up there in Boy Scouts for the Easter sunrise service and has good memories.

Ingleesh wrote on Aug 10, 2006 2:35 PM:To Laura: Tru enuf,butt I cud unnerstan what she sed.

Get real wrote on Aug 10, 2006 3:20 PM:People, people, people. This invasion of our border has been going on for over 40 years. The only reason any of this is being addressed is because it happens to be the "subject" for the election coming up. You don't really think the professional politicians are listening to you, do you?

Laura wrote on Aug 10, 2006 3:50 PM:To Ingleesh, I'm sorry, I just can't understand what you're saying. Hey, perhaps Pam August 8, 2006 can.

Laura wrote on Aug 10, 2006 3:57 PM:Get Real, You're right on...........the "Money."

Karen wrote on Aug 10, 2006 8:23 PM:Why aren't they focusing more on deporting the people who fit the profile of a terrorist from the middle east? they are the ones causing all the trouble at the airports and homeland security. I haven't heard or read anything about hispanics wanting to plant bombs or blow anyone up. I agree they should learn English and do what they can to become legal and contribute to society like the rest of us law abiding citizens, but I would rather have hispanics here than the terrorist that is causing world-wide trouble. They should simply close the border to the US, wishful thinking on my part!

Tony wrote on Aug 11, 2006 8:42 AM:People, stop bitching about it and do something. What I do (as an example) 1. I never patronize a business I suspect is hiring illegals or mexican nationals using greencards - who's to say they are real? 2. Stop eating fast food! It's a well documented fact that fast food openly hires illegals. 3. Mow your own lawn or hire the teenager down the street. By cutting off the money they illegally obtain, they will move somewhere else

Yer Dreamin' wrote on Aug 11, 2006 2:14 PM:To Tony, Good advice, I follow #2 for health purposes, and #3 because in my family we are just "do it ourselves" kind of people (no housekeepers, either). #1 isn't so easy, though. We built a pool a few years ago, & contracted a nice "American" (family-owned, father & son) company to build it. Well, I learned quickly that pool contractors sub out most of the work. It would be naiive of me to insist that all of those hardworking men who built our pool were in this country legally. I suppose I could have pushed the issue, but by then the contractor had about half of the cost of the pool in his pocket (per the contract terms) & I wasn't about to make a stink at that point. And even if I had, I'll bet our contractor would have been hard pressed to find a sub-contractor with a completely "legal" team (do you really think they are going to hire Americans when so many Mexicans, Hondurans and Guatemalans will work, and work damn hard, for a lot less?). I suppose I could've asked up front,if everyone involved was legal, but my guess is the contractor would've either lied, or laughed in my face.

Laura wrote on Aug 11, 2006 5:23 PM:To Pat, my apologies for misspelling your name. I incorrectly wrote "Pam," and your name is obviously "Pat."

Julia wrote on Aug 12, 2006 5:31 PM:The problem is the Mexican Government -so why don't the Mexican's demonstrate in Mexico and demand from their government a better life - why demonstrate in foreign land for rights that are not theirs - since illegal means - "prohibited by law, unlawful, illicit, not authorized or sanctioned"

juliE wrote on Aug 12, 2006 6:01 PM:HAS ANYONE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION "THE ENVIRONMENTAL COST OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION LEAVING TRASH AND HUMAN WASTE THAT CAN SEEP INTO SOIL AND WATER AND HARM WILD LIFE." "THE FEDERAL AGENTS WHO PURSUE THEM DO THEIR OWN DAMAGE TO THE INVIRONMENT. THE LOW FLYING HELICOPTERS AND OFF-ROAD VEWHICLES DISTURB WILDLIFE AND DESTROY HABITAT" FROM SD Union Tribune 8/6/06

Rickard wrote on Aug 13, 2006 3:03 PM:Some people seem to think that the US, alone amongst the nations of the world, does not have the right to decide who may, and who may not, enter the country. Why is that?

Spanish wrote on Aug 13, 2006 4:07 PM:Those illegals already renamed this city. It's called Escondido, how dare they call it a Spanish name. What to do, what to do.

Me Geronimo-How wrote on Aug 13, 2006 5:05 PM:I am racist because my land was stolen from my people by the white man. I am racist because my people were slaughterd by the white man. I am racist because the white man never kept there word by breaking every treaty written. I am racist because my people that were left, were moved to other territories. I am racist because the white man invented scalping. I am racist because the white man burned our villages. I am racist because the white man stole our horses. I am racist because the white man killed our buffalo for their skin only. I am a racist because the white man was the true illegal immigrant. Factual is not racial. Realism is not racism.

John wrote on Aug 13, 2006 5:39 PM:No Habla espanole. This is America,speak english.

To Roberto wrote on Aug 13, 2006 8:37 PM: I have seen your illogical, racist, dare I say xenophobic, ha ha rants on many strings repeating the same thing over and over and over and over again. So the question still stands. Is xenophobic part of your limited, vocabulary, or is this some sort of COMPULSIVE disorder? I can almost see your vien popping and your neck twitching, or is that your eye?

???????? wrote on Aug 14, 2006 9:18 AM:politics, politics, is anyone actually worried about this country? Or is it just there own back side? Not the ted kennedy's of the world for sure. If some action on illegal immigration and a few other matters aren't addressed soon we won't have a USA to argue over.

??????? wrote on Aug 14, 2006 9:22 AM:think it can't happen? look how fast/far we have fallen in the last decade..and George, I'm afraid you are totally out of touch with the people of this country. You are a totaly disappointment in your second term.

Here's an idea wrote on Aug 14, 2006 10:15 AM:Why don't we solve this problem once and for all. Simply annex Mexico. Think of all that oil and undeveloped beachfront property, not to mention cheap labor. The new 51st "State of Mexico" would be absolutely thriving in ten years! And I wonder whether the PEOPLE of Mexico would really mind?

Eating your own... wrote on Aug 14, 2006 12:01 PM:Haha! Reading from the bottom I thought Roberto would be a supporter of open borders or at least total amnesty. Imagine my surprise to find that he is a self-described conservative who has only pointed out that the extreme anti immigration deportation set is basically dreamin' and that comprehensive reform is the only answer - basically he's not far-right enough. Thank you, Roberto, for giving the fringe nuts on this board the opportunity to show, by getting hung up again on a single word, that they aren't really interested in reform or even intelligent debate. Xenophobic, racist, insecure, protectionist, scared....call it what you want, the point is that the fringe right is being driven by irrational emotion and not intelligent policy debate and they're dominating the discussion such that the more moderate (and intelligent) people are being drowned out. The end result: no reform whatsoever.

Michelle wrote on Aug 14, 2006 3:27 PM:I CANNOT BLAME ME GERONIMO FOR BEING A RACIST. PUT YOURSELF IN HIS PLACE AND READ YOUR HISTORY. Me Geronimo-How wrote on August 13, 2006 5:05 PM:"I am racist because my land was stolen from my people by the white man. I am racist because my people were slaughterd by the white man. I am racist because the white man never kept there word by breaking every treaty written. I am racist because my people that were left, were moved to other territories. I am racist because the white man invented scalping. I am racist because the white man burned our villages. I am racist because the white man stole our horses. I am racist because the white man killed our buffalo for their skin only. I am a racist because the white man was the true illegal immigrant. Factual is not racial. Realism is not racism."

Litl Bits wrote on Aug 14, 2006 6:24 PM:To: Me Geronimo-How who wrote: Me racist because..... Get over it, please! If you want to live a miserable life, keep talking like this. But NOT ONE white man alive today is guilty of doing all the things you mentioned to your ancestors. Same with slavery: It was the culture and belief of the time....that time is past and hopefully, white man, black man, red man - and any other color man can learn to live side by side in peace. But to live in the past and blame today's people for what happened so long ago is NOT the way to bridge gaps. Your people have also been given a lot of privileges the rest of American citizens do not have - and this is fact you cannot contravert!

john wrote on Aug 14, 2006 7:12 PM:I love you english professors.What happened to 187? Ya I do short liners.

John wrote on Aug 14, 2006 7:17 PM:Ya lets get this straight. I used to be a Republican , Now im Indipendent, Ill never vote Democrat. You dems still loose. Ill eat a Camel turd Before I ever vote Democrat>

187 wrote on Aug 14, 2006 10:12 PM:187? Basicly the same thing that's happening now. Citizens want it but our so called, Democratic gov won't allow it because they're too busy lining their pockets. They pass the laws we ask for, but they only provide funds for the ones THEY, want enforced. Lots of tough words, but if you watch tv in spanish thousands of people running and walking across the border laughing at the national guard while they do it. The National guard just standing there. No actual authority to do anything. Mexican media laughing at us.

One lone voter wrote on Aug 15, 2006 3:22 AM:Folks, we have an election looming in November. Get on down to the main attraction, a little less talk and a lot more action!!!!!!

John wrote on Aug 15, 2006 7:41 AM:That Roberto character is part of the Latino problem,not the solution.Historicly ,when a group of people migrate to a country,they attempt to emerce themselves in that countrys culture,not alienate themselves,they learn the language.Although Roberto is probably the exception ,not the rule.Try to live in Mexico without learning Spanish,or any other foreign country for that matter.

EnglishLover! wrote on Aug 15, 2006 11:09 AM:Thank you to Laura who told Pam to learn English. The people on this message board do the anti-immigrant movement a huge disservice by their inability to write literate English. It certainly provides fodder to those who would call you under-educated rednecks. But I guess you'd just write us off as "latte-swilling, Volvo-driving, New York Times-reading liberals." Still doesn't change the fact that you're semi-illiterate. LEARN ENGLISH, you hillbillies! Maybe if you were better educated, you'd see how simplistic your analyses are and how your problems aren't caused by immigrants.

SHYLO wrote on Aug 15, 2006 1:50 PM:OKAY Enough is enough I have read everything written on this issue for the last 6 months. What I don't understand is why all of you are so much in a uproar about this issue and all anyone wants to do is point fingers. How about if all of us try and help those that are here without papers get the documentation that they need to stay here. Have anyone of you ever seen what these people have to go through to stay in this country. I am not talking about just from Mexico either, I am speaking about any country. As far as the work issue okay how about all of you meeting me at the orange groves and you and I pick oranges for a day see how darn tired you are for that 30.00 a day then come back home and go to a second job just to make the rent because you are getting less then the other people. Oh yea and let us not forget that some of you go across that border and buy items at a robbers price because you want a deal on it. How about those people selling it what kind of a deal are they getting? Wonder if they children that are trying to fed off the cents they make from us wanting that great deal oh and by the way how many of you have thrown coins in the water at the border or on the ground to watch the kids fight over the money that they need for food? Okay I am done for now !! But remember all of us are only a pay check or another bomb away from being illegals also!!!

Better Idea wrote on Aug 15, 2006 3:17 PM:Lets takeover Mexico, we can become dictators and since they love working for the Whites, we can open businesses down there and pay them $1.00 a day, and we can have them sleep 10 to a 1 bedroom and charge them $1,200.00, oh they would love it! We could then send the other illegals back to Mexico, big business gets what it wants slave laborers and the Mexicans are happy too!

to shylo wrote on Aug 15, 2006 4:21 PM:Your attitude is part of the problem. How about the illegals leave the US, apply for entry or citizenship like the rest of the world has to, and we help them to the border? I would rather go without Oranges than let millions of illegal aliens steal their citizenship or work visas while others across the world wait in line. They have the choice to obey our laws or not, they have made their choice and their risk was getting caught. What is the Question again?

k wrote on Aug 15, 2006 9:35 PM:O.K. oranges are one thing but what about all the consruction jobs? Or even fast food which pays 8 dollars an hour? I say we give these jobs back to our young.

Lisa wrote on Aug 16, 2006 6:32 PM:Illegal immigrants are like the "Borg" Resistance is futile.

Sergio wrote on Aug 17, 2006 12:54 AM:The politics of divisiveness are alive and well in Vista and Escondido. Expediency and political pandering at its worst. As more and more Latino youth reach voting age and register to vote the tides will turn. But please don't fear us as we'll be more responsible in our actions than you have been to us.

Scott wrote on Aug 17, 2006 10:56 AM:To all migrants, Come here legally and I'll welcome you. Come here illegally and you're not welcome. You've disrespected our laws and cut the line in front of some of my friends who bring more to the table, have more respect for our country than you do and are here for more than just a low paying job and free healthcare. Don't enter the United States of America illegally and demand your "rights"! Mexican government officials are hypocrites and are using the United States of America as their welfare state. Yes, I singled out Mexico because that's where we need to start fixing this problem so its citizens aren't forced to look for a better life away from their homeland. Mexico could and should be as prosperous at the United States. The situation with the two Border Patrol agents in Texas is proof of how bad our government wants cheap labor that it is willing to throw these individuals under the bus in favor of a drug trafficing criminal who is obviously a detriment to both Mexico and the U.S. What's up with that?

l wrote on Aug 18, 2006 10:49 AM:About the border patrol agents, my old neighbor was bringing illegals across in his van and he was told exactly which lane to cross them in. He even had a password. He just bought a really nice house.

Harry wrote on Aug 19, 2006 4:25 PM:The comment that xenophobic "has no meaning here" is comical when it is surrounded by hundreds of posts that repeat the mantra "illegal", "what part of illegal...".."its not immigrants its illegal. There is so little original or creative thought and almost no constructive problem solving. The constant repetition of illegal illegal illegal, isn't an arguement. It is a cacophany meant to drown out any real discussion. It is an ode to shallow bigoted non-think. It is rather like the Queen of Hearts in Alice in Wonderland, to interject that xenophobia has no meaning here and then to go on babbling "illegal illegal illegal".

john wrote on Aug 21, 2006 5:37 AM:To MeGeronimo.Lets see Geronimo,white men taught your people how to scalp? Interesting.Heres some facts,The so called American Indian migrated across the asian land bridge to this continent,The so called American Indian practiced genocide and slavery long before the white man came,Were not your problem.

ELG wrote on Aug 21, 2006 7:59 AM:WOW! As I read these comments I get the feeling that some of these people should be on Valium. Laura is giving English lessons and making sarcastic comments to other comments. My advice to Laura is to learn to READ a name before making a comment about them. After bashing poor PAT several times in your comments, you apologize for calling her Pam instead?? You are a piece of work!!

gordonius wrote on Aug 23, 2006 5:57 AM:Lessee...we get rid of all them illegal messicans then maybe we can give all these good old American cities some English names...get rid of all the Sans and Los' etc...and whoever called this place California ennyway?

Gordon wrote on Aug 25, 2006 7:45 AM:Do you think the Oceanside City Council has the guts to promote a non rent policy for illegal immigrants as Escondido is proposing? If you are againts the invasion of our country by those not respecting our immigration laws, then I sugest you begin to pressure the City Council to implement the same law.

Laid back Surfer wrote on Aug 25, 2006 10:32 AM:I see where the Minute Man Project founder Jim Gilcrist has endorsed Libertarian Art Olivier for Governor. I think I will vote for Mr. Olivier as well. He has been on some of the talk shows in LA and sounds like an excellent choice over the more welfare for illegal aliens Gov. Schwarzengger. What do others think?

A Legal Alien wrote on Sep 6, 2006 1:59 PM:Thought it is only Illegal aliens with less rights? Think again. Most jails have more aliens than citizens purely because they are considered to be flight risks even though they may have spend their whole lives in the USA. Perhaps Mr. President could start by protecting the rights of Aliens in the United States rather than running to Iraq and kill his own people to try to fight for the rights aliens in his own country are not entitled to.

Roberto wrote on Sep 13, 2006 5:58 AM:Illegals cost us money and and are bad for the economy...wheres the beef? ....Xenophobes!

Dave's not here wrote on Sep 13, 2006 2:44 PM:A Legal Alien's posting speaks volumes... for itself. Profound ignorance and blind self interest - demanding more from a system which he has barged in uninvited. Is it my imagination or just a coincidence that our learned colleague seems to have more that a tacit familiarity with the correctional system? Food for thought.

To Shylo wrote on Sep 21, 2006 8:48 PM:what they have to go through to stay? what, have babies not born of love, so they can get free medical care, free food, free money, drive nice cars with no car insurance, reap nice insurance claims by causing accidents, kill Americans and flee across the border only to be protected by the Mexican government, take over domestic drug trafficing because theres a gap left by a crackdown of domestic drug criminals, pay no taxes, but reap all the free benefits, what they have to go through, come on? You say we should help them, when the dead from hurricane Katrina were left to rot in the streets, Black American relief crews replaced by illegals cause they worked for less than $10. an hour, wake up, do you even care, really?

Roberto wrote on Sep 25, 2006 4:20 AM:Over one million people cross the Mexican-American border everyday legally. Spend some of your anger and hatred on terrorism, countries that hate us etc... Instead, making friends and influencing people eludes the common XENOPHOBE cause he can't see past his own agenda. Comprehensive, rationale and logic have left this issue (Illegal Immigration) long ago thus the loss of a debate for comprehensive reform.

Elsinorian wrote on Oct 1, 2006 9:34 AM:America's first mistake was when we started printing instructions(ATM's, etc.) in Spanish. No other country on earth expects their population to know the language of other countries. If you go to live somewhere, you learn the language of the people who live there...period. Any American that associates themselves with another country (MexicanAmerican, AsianAmerican, GermanAmerican) is not a true American. We are the United States of America. Unted with one language, and one type of people..AMERICANS! If any immigrant, legal or illeagal, does not want to be an American...then what are you doing here wasting the money of the taxpayers.

dennis wrote on Oct 9, 2006 9:36 AM:To JayGee: Get down off your liberal horse and face the world as it is , not as you vision it in an ivory tower. Your talk of morality, etc. is disgusting and out of touch.

UpsetTaxPayer wrote on Oct 19, 2006 11:45 AM:I think we all need to remember that as much as George may be able to ASK Congress to pass a law the only body that can make a law in this country that affects the whole country is Congress. You'll get more of a response getting the people in your area calling the your Senators and Representatives out on this issue and telling them you'll not vote them back in than you will asking for George's job. George is on the way out - or have you forgotten his second term ends in two years? He's not going to care - he's set. Watch how your Congresspersons vote and call them out on this issue if you want to see real change. You want change? You want to see gas prices where they belong? The price of a barrell of oil to the price of a gallon of gas does not make sense. Not when OPEC is going to cut production, the pipeline is open on full again, and the Arabs say there's a major surplus - and the fact that many countries are starting to produce oil that haven't before. You want to protect our borders? Children born to illegals aliens in this country are paid for by us the tax payers. We house criminals who are illegal aliens for terms up to life sentences (shouldn't they be sent home instead)? Gang violence and transient crimes in border areas are associated with the illegal immigrants, human traffickers, and drug runners. Illegal immigrants only come for one reason...WORK. Take away the jobs, that is, punish the employers who want to pay third world wages and no benefits to save a few dollars now and you'll see the illegals stop coming, going home, or applying for citizenship. They have openly admitted time and time again, they come for the work and the sent nearly a BILLION DOLLARS out of our country last year. You get a job, and you pay bills, they get a job and they send it out of the country. You think Americans won't do the jobs you want done? What about ... where you can hire our service men and women to do odd jobs or work for your business? Did you know that many of our service men and women make so little money they can actually apply for W.I.C. to feed their children? You are quick to yell "Buy American" for goods, so what about the same for labor? You're quick to tie a yellow ribbon and say you support our troops - so why not support them this way too? Midterm elections are almost here....check these voting records and vote out your local Senator or Congressperson if they didn't vote to protect our borders. GET OUT AND VOTE! This link shows every vote made by Congress Since 1991, call them out on what they have or have not done for you. ...

Earnest wrote on Oct 20, 2006 7:35 AM:Lots of the anger directed at undocumented immigrants comes from people's genuine frustrations about falling wages, rising prices, an uncertain future for Social Security, a profit-driven healthcare system and other quality of life issues. Isn't it so much easier to get mad and enact local laws than to call, write, email, demonstrate in front of, or not vote for (etc.) the party and politicians that have been in power these last 6 years? Even Waldron referred to "Washington" and the "Beltway" instead of the specific President, representatives, senators that many of these same ordinance-supporters voted for. Why? And speaking of legality, if we put a sensible guest worker program on the books (finger prints, taxes paid, minimum wage) would all these righteous ordinance-supporters feel more respectful, constructive and thoughtful? I sure hope so, but even a guest worker LAW won't "fix" the broader quality of life issues neglected by our nationally elected leaders or under attack through our electoral system. That's going to take some sustained effort and time - oh, and attention to history and detail, not just the question of "legality."

bill wrote on Jan 1, 2007 8:38 AM: Possibly the Escondido city council members, that are tring to do something about the illegal alien and homeless problem, are doing so to attempt to make Escondido a better place to live rather than the suburb of Mexico that it is becoming. Please note that most of the letters complaining about this situation are not living in Escondido.

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