Out of hand wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:32 PM:How many times has the president told us that we had enough troops in afghanistan? 7 years later we are still there and have gotten no where!! We could have used our forces, collaborated with the full force of NATO and had this finished, but some idiot had the idea of going to Iraq to start another war and neglect the war we were supposed to be fighting(those who actually attacked us) with people who have been known to be tough for every other army that tried to fight them....McCain will be more of the same and we will continue to read the same ole story for the next 4 years....McCain voters...are you happy with whats going on? Are you happy with the economy? Are you happy with idiot presidents with no foresight and plenty of misguided reactionism? This will continue to get out of hand until someone finds the nukes in Pakistan and then this will all seem like a day at Disneyland. McCain voters....you are draggin this country down and making the rest of us look stupid by association...

I think... wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:32 PM:"Out of hand" must be Chris or one of his croonies. You complain about troops being in Iraq...(which would be a haven for terrorist if they weren't)...you complain about more troops in Afghanistan...(which we need to finish the job there). If we wimp out and start pulling out troops and LOSE ANY WAR...it will be here and you will never see Disneyland again. You must reside in Never-Never Land. Stop with the tiresome "more of the same for 4 MORE YEARS" garbage....it is people like you that are dragging this country down. Grow a spine.

to I think wrote on Sep 15, 2008 5:08 PM:you should stop and think for a moment about what i said...I am not Chris, I am just another ordinary american that voted for Bush and I along with most americans want osama bin laden defeated in Afghanistan. There were no terrorists in Iraq before we went there..this is fact. I want as many of our troops in Afghanistan as it takes to win the war that was initiated upon us. I want the nukes secured so Disneyland stays open for buisness, and we can all take our kids there. You are dead wrong about me and about our perspecive of the world. The president has been telling us that everything is ok, and that we are doing well. The president has suckered you into believing the iraq war is related to 911, but these are all lies and you are buying everyone of them. Take some more time to think next time before you buy everything thats being sold. I hope you enjoy your stocks tumbling too

Voice of Reason wrote on Sep 15, 2008 7:34 PM:Cynical rich-boy draft-dodging Bush purposely dragged the occupation of Iraq on so he wouldn't have to admit he was dead wrong.
The biggest disaster of a prez this country has ever seen - but he won't be held accountable. I say put him, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Powell, Ashcroft, Rumsfield et al on trial for treason.

local osider wrote on Sep 16, 2008 6:26 AM:To out of hand and to I think... I could not have said it better than that..you should know though that some people dont have the ability to think for themselves and need a republican to tell them what to think....people are not all logical and reasonable...many people only understand the art of reactionism....you will never convince idiots to think for themselves...ever...its a lost cause...If you want to do someting useful with your time, volunteer for the Obama campaign and recruit Independent voters such as myself that have the abilty to think for themselves instead of buying the republican propaganda...GO OBAMA!!! McCain will be like Bush on steroids...really angry all the time, with his finger on the button

Enough time to think wrote on Sep 16, 2008 8:37 AM:Semper Fi Marines. Keep each other safe and come home whole. Also know that no matter what some say about how Bush has ruined this country, they want only the best for you. Keep your minds open to doing right and not simply killing people because you are told that is right. The day of, "I was ordered to" is now upon us and will not defend you in court. As for this whole war mess: Bush did make this mess in Iraq and voting for McCain will not change that.

here comes the fun wrote on Sep 16, 2008 9:22 AM:Coming soon to OEF? Green beans coffee and a million civilian contractors heading to Afghanistan to collect their money like they do in Iraq (seriously, if you haven't been there, you can't imagine it). The OIF model will become the OEF model till we fight a full theater war with Russia/Iran, etc. Good luck Marines, you're going to need it with the civilian leadership you have.

Paco wrote on Sep 16, 2008 9:45 AM:It is interesting on how many arm chair commanders in chief know what the situation in Afghanistan is about. Why don't you study the history of Afghanistan? If you did, you would understand that having large amount of troops on the ground would turn the populace against the "invading force" and force them out. What the military did was brilliant. Utilizing the Northern Alliance to force the Taliban out was just what was needed. A large amount of troops on the ground would turn out just like the Soviets encountered in the 80's.

As for Iraq, I was on the ground in Kuwait waiting to cross over into Iraq in 2003. What I heard President Bush say was that Saddam killed and tortured his own people, which has been proven. He contributed to instability in the region, again substantiated. Defied UN sanctions, again proven to be a fact. 9/11 was never a strong point for the invasion. However, WMDs was also a small portion. It's amazing that every politician spouted the same thing. And they had the same intelligence Bush did.

Paco wrote on Sep 16, 2008 9:49 AM:As for the economy, the country started to take a down turn when the Democrats received the majority in the House and Senate. Does Bush deserve some of credit because of the downturn? Absolutely. But Congresspeople and Senators bear a larger responsibility. Also, the lending practices which caused our mortgage crisis is a fault of Democrats who wanted to have housing equally available to every American. This led to a breeding ground for corrupt people to give the shaft to some Americans. McCain is not the answer to the country's problems. But, Obama is not the answer either. We will vote for the lesser of two evils, but which is that?

to Enough time to think wrote on Sep 16, 2008 10:44 AM:'Bush wants only the best for you' ??
This administration sends our troops into a manufactured war ill-equipped, doesn't give them the dignity when they come home in coffins, and gives inadequate medical services to the injured.

Karl wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:20 AM:Enough time to think @ 8:37 AM:

Nice sentiments, by the way, voting for Obama "will not change that" either (Bush did make this mess in Iraq).

Winston Churchill wrote on Sep 16, 2008 11:41 AM:If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

What wrote on Sep 16, 2008 12:23 PM:that's right Paco, blame the Democrats! You should really start getting your news elsewhere than Fox 'News'.
And no, every member of Congress did not have the same intelligence that Bush did, they were shown only the cherry-picked info to make a case for invading Iraq.

winston churchill wrote on Sep 16, 2008 2:16 PM:is irrelevant....this is just a slogan..we are in no danger of becoming slaves..this is just more bs from the republicants that cant do a damn thing right....free market economical mess and only the repubs to blame!

To What and others wrote on Sep 16, 2008 3:50 PM:Tell me, What...which member of Congress are you??? Only a Congress person who was there in Congress could make a statement like that. For the rest of you...The Blame Game is old...You cannot "Blame" Rep. and more than Dems. Since the Dems got control...the country has gone downhill...This do nothing but "blame rep and our own country" congress needs a maid. It is time to clean house. Oh, ok...just take the "slaves" part off. Still holds true. It's time for you condescending Know-Nothings, who think that anyone who does not "agree" with YOU is either uneducated or snowed...to look in the mirror. You will likely find snow on your own shoulders.

Proud American wrote on Sep 16, 2008 5:53 PM:I guess everyone forgets that "regime change" was the official policy of the US during the Clinton Years. Never mind the fact that the UN approved the removal of Saddam. Never mind the fact that Osama Bin Laden through we would roll over like we did in 1993 in Somalia. Never mind the fact that all during the 90's we kept getting kicked in the face with nothing to show for it except a few Tomahawks launched from off shore.

Does anyone remember Libya 1986? Regan kicked Kadafi's ass, Tom Cruise made a move called "Top Gun". Just last week Condi Rice was meeting Kadafi who since then has given up on bad mouthing the USA and Nuclear weapons. Take some time to look up "Salma Pak" in Iraq. It was a Terrorist training facility. No WMD yes, but Saddam is gone. Why do you think Iran wants us to loose so bad in Iraq? What about Afghanistan? Don’t you think they may pause with our forces on both sides of their country?

Take time to remember WW-II. We are still in Germany 60+ years later. Same with Japan. Patience everyone, patience. We will prevail, unless some spineless wonder becomes president. Just think what will happen when Iran gets close enough to “the bomb” that Israel takes them out. Will we have the spine to stand with them, or will be let them “go it alone” I guess that will depend on who is president. Talk is all good and fine, but when someone comes up and hits you in the face, do you just stand there and bleed? Or do you fight back. Last thing; don’t tell me we deserve it, because if that is what you think, it is time for you to exercise your freedom to LEAVE!!!

Paco wrote on Sep 16, 2008 6:17 PM:"What"-Unlike many of our politicians, I don't pick any one news organization to suit my argument. That's the problem with people today. There are many who look at the problems today and look for the quick, easy answer. Go back and review the statements of those from the Intelligence Committees over the years. Either these members were derelict in their duty to review intelligence matters or they "cherry picked" what they wanted to see. This is not a Republican/Democrat issue. This is an American issue. But let me pose this question to you: If you were an American politician during WWII, would you have allowed the Nazi Party to do what they did to Europe without intervention?

Proud American wrote on Sep 16, 2008 7:12 PM:Paco, you forget your history. "We" did stand by and do nothing for over 5 years in the 1930’s. France became a bunch of surrender monkeys. England, especially London was bombed into the stone ages.

It was not until Japan attacked us on December 7 that we declared war on Japan. It was only then that Germany declared war on us. So we did stand by and do nothing.

Look at the Potsdam talks. After we won in Germany, Berlin was divided into 4 zones. Remember East & West Berlin? We "talked" with Stalin. He then took over Poland & installed his own Puppet government. Remember the Berlin airlift?

Had we not stood up to the Nazis in WWII or the Soviets during the cold war, WE ALL might be speaking a different language. We must face the fact that there are people in the world who hate us. They hate our freedom. They hate the fact we are having this very debate. Take the time to remember freedom is not at all free

To Proud American wrote on Sep 16, 2008 8:12 PM:Very well done...and Intelligently with knowledge of history...I'm with you all the way!! Freedom is not free! Something all these dems just can't grasp! I love the part about how we are still in Germany...and Japan...makes you wonder what kind of air is filling the heads of all these people yaking about pulling our troops out. They have no clue what would be next!

Paco wrote on Sep 16, 2008 8:51 PM:To Proud American, you are making my point. When we stand by and do nothing, the situation excalates into a larger problem. Here's a question for you. Why did Japan attack us? It was because either we or our allies controlled many of the natural resources that the Japanese needed. It was smart the way the U.S. went into Afghanistan. We didn't initially go in there with large number of troops. We sent in smaller number of special forces troops to work with the Northern Alliance to get the Taliban out of power.

The point I was trying to make is that Iraq and Afghanistan had to happen. Iraq had to happen because of regional instability and the atrocities Saddam was committing on his neighbors as well as his own people.

Afghanistan had to be cleared out, not just because of the Taliban, but because of severe human rights violations.

Either I didn't make my point clear, or you misread my post. Having been in the military for over 18 years, I think I know that freedom isn't free.

Proud American wrote on Sep 17, 2008 6:15 PM:Paco, you are incorrect why Japan attacked us. They attacked as so that they could consolidate their hold on the Far East. Back then, the Japanese were a totalitarian regime. They had enslaved the Chinese and were on the march. Remember they took out the US 5th fleet in Hawaii first. Then they took over the Philippines and the rest of the Far East. It had nothing to do with resources at that time. It was plain and simple aggression. Oh yea, look what it took for America to get involved. The death of over 5,000 personal. Think what would happen if that happen today? Wait we don’t have to think, it is happening right now over in Iraq and Afghanistan. The difference today as opposed to then is #1 we take our freedom for granted, #2 we are not in a depression, and #3 news travels at the speed of the internet. But after the last few days, I don’t know about #2 much longer. What do you think would have happened on December 7 had we had instance communication?

Paco wrote on Sep 17, 2008 8:46 PM:Proud American, you are partially correct. They did attack us to consolidate their hold on the Far East, but they were taking over those countries for the natural resources those countries had. Take a look at the policies Roosevelt had in place at the time. The Japanese were pissed because we were limiting the resources that were going to Japan. We turned a blind eye toward what was going on in Europe based on Roosevelt's policies of isolation at the time. We were still in the depression at the time. Yes, the Republicans caused the Depression, but it took WWII for the U.S. to recover. Roosevelt had 11 years to recover and was unable to do so. The WPA just created jobs without helping the country's economy much. As for instant communication on Dec 7. Maybe you didn't see or hear about what happened following the attack. The newspaper and radio galvanized the Nation and demanded a response. It's too easy for you to say it was aggression. That's not the real answer. It was sparked by our policies in Asia at the time as well as Japan's dwindling natural resources. Look it up.