LETTERS: NCT, Sept. 15, 2008
By Readers of the North County Times | ∞
Sacrificing truth –– selling Palin
McCain and his pick for vice president, Sarah Palin, play loose with the facts. Are they lying? No. But, it is staggering that they continue to repeat the half-truth that Ms. Palin opposed the "Bridge to Nowhere" when it has been categorically debunked. Ms. Palin was a vigorous supporter of the bridge –– before it became an embarrassment doomed to congressional defeat. Then she opposed it, but still took the money earmarked and used it for other purposes.
Last night, I heard a McCain-Palin television advertisement that continues to make this false claim! What do they think of us voters: We're stupid, we don't listen to anything but what we're told by their campaign, or that they don't want a thinking voter to vote for their ticket?
Sam Knight
Del Mar
Turnabout is fair play
I never in my life thought I would align myself with the California prison guards, but as they say, certain things make strange bedfellows. The prison guards want Gov. Schwarzenegger recalled. During the French Revolution, Edmund Burke decried sudden convulsive changes in government (there, the French king and queen lost their heads).
The occupation of the governor's mansion by Mr. Schwarzenegger occurred in a very convulsive manner: Throw out Gov. Davis and install Gov. Schwarzenegger. A lot of happiness and dancing in the streets occurred with this change of governor,ˇjust as occurred, if you read "Tale Of Two Cities," in France. But turnabout is fair play, and now it appears it is Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's turn to be thrown out. From my prior several letters to the editor, you know of my criticisms of Mr. Schwarzenegger, so where do I sign?
Anthony Abbott
Escondido
Visionary leader or failed policies?
Is the country ready for an ill-tempered, elderly, war-prompting guy? His choice for vice president: a "pit bull with lipstick" called the Barracuda! If you want more cowboy diplomacy, failed policies and a clone of Bush arrogance without thoughtful decisions, then vote McCain. If you prefer a visionary leader admired worldwide for his high intelligence and excellent judgment to lead, Barack Obama is your man for president. Enough of the Palin/McCain irresponsible dog-and-pony show!
Jacqueline Cook
Oceanside
Mirror helps him drive safely
For a few months, I was having trouble changing lanes on the freeway to my left. I had to strain my head to see. Then I had a real close call driving to Tijuana. I considered giving up driving. But I would lose a lot of opportunities.
I went to the Wal-Mart car department, looking for a mirror I could put on my dashboard. Instead I found a convex mirror ... that you put on your outside left or right mirror (self-adhesive), and you don't have any blind spots. For $1.83, my problem was solved. Now I can continue driving with confidence. I bought six more and put them on every car I drive (sisters, girlfriend and neighbor). I suggest you try it and maybe avoid a serious accident.
William Hart
Carlsbad
Palin a true Alaskan pioneer
Hello all of you south 48 citizens who love discussing the qualifications of Sarah Palin to be the United States vice president. Please let me inform you, as an 86-year-old former Alaskan, that I am proud of her background. It takes a brave, intelligent person to live the life she has –– which is that of a real Alaskan. She is a person qualified to be called an Alaskan. They were/are the people who live with what life presents and make the best use of it.
Those who think Alaska is what they see from cruise ships and escorted tours have never seen (nor heard) what Alaska is. If one is not physically and mentally capable of accepting the opportunities of a different life than lived in the states south of Canada, they have no business in Alaska. They will never fit in or live the life available –– which Sarah Palin has.
I first went to Alaska in 1948 to live the great Alaskan dream. My heart is still there, but I left to follow my sea captain husband. My children were born in the territory. We were pioneers, and so is Sarah Palin. She has the courage to learn and do whatever life offers.
Edith Van Kirk
Vista
Dems piling on Palin
It appears, from the looks of the letters page on Friday, Sept. 5, and Saturday, Sept. 6, the North County Forum letter writers are gearing up for an all-out attack on Sarah Palin. And, of course, one of the lefty Crews team must get into the act. This time, it was Richard the pro-abortionist. Pile on, folks, and continue making yourselves look like the fools you really are.
Sarah is a fresh face (and a good-looking one at that) with a background and accomplishments that overshadow the "community organizer" the Democrats have selected for their leader. Sarah has an appeal that Hillary, Boxer, Pelosi, et al., would die for. Early in Hillary's campaign, she said, "Now the fun part starts." I wonder how much fun she had while watching Sarah give her acceptance speech? Can you imagine the scene with epithets and furniture flying? Finally, America has a chance for a female president, and it will not be Hillary! Hallelujah!
Junious
Montgomery
Carlsbad
Country is in trouble
How could John McCain eventually get anything done by reaching across the aisle to Democrats when he stands approvingly by while his pit bull vice president demonizes the Dems and their candidate? Do you see a kiss and make-up process, post-election, after the mean-spirited personal attacks these presidential candidates have stooped to, McCain and Palin?
The country is in trouble, and the Republican nominees are fiddling while Rome burns.
Lee Becker
Vista
A job that needs filling
Headlines tell us jobs are steadily decreasing. On the other hand, there are many jobs not being filled.
These days, there is no human voice on the other end of the line when we call a corporate or professional office. It is always a letdown. We receive a stern vocal recording identifying the office, then are advised that this is being recorded for identifiable purposes. Then, answers to assumptions. Finally we are given a litany of different numbers to punch to narrow the list of recipients. No personality. We feel a glassy-eyed individual on the other end who couldn't care less. But this is the modern way.
How rewarding it once was to be greeted by someone living who was interested in helping, with a lilt to the voice. Perhaps, "One moment, I'll ask. Be right back." Ah, but those days are gone. We are more efficient, more businesslike today. To hire another office person adds to the overhead. Expensive. I would bet the public relations of that office would improve and be financially enhanced; I'd bet on a win-win situation.
William Boyce
Escondido
Elitism is enemy of clarity and truth
I read with amazement the Sept. 9 letter by Frank Lancelotti, which claimed to be a response to my letter of July 23. He failed to respond to any of the few items that I put forward, but merely characterized the whole thing as homosexual propaganda. My wife, were she still alive, would have gotten quite a chuckle out of that.
Lancelotti cites a book that he says contains a self-described gay manifesto. Without identification of either author or publisher, one is left to wonder whether that manifesto is of the same character as the infamous "Protocols of Zion." The notion that the marriage between a man and a woman is somehow damaged by marriage of same-sex couples defies understanding. Are the vows taken by a man and a woman suddenly less meaningful? I certainly hope not.
David Horwitz
Vista
Agreed that McCain, Palin are genuine
The letter, "McCain, Palin are genuine," by Kim Oakley on Sept. 10 is a specific informational analysis of John McCain for president and Sarah Palin for vice president. Her insight and application are right on. They truly are a breath of fresh air. It would not surprise me to read soon editorials from socialist Democrats who would want to discredit Kim's analysis as they continue to pile on to Sarah Palin or her supporters. It would seem from national commentators that Barack Obama is running against Sarah Palin.
The country needs more national leaders who produce real change, such as both John McCain and Sarah Palin, who have continuously provided real change. Barack Obama talks about change, but his Illinois legislative record and congressional record do not support his fancy rhetoric on any meaningful change that he would produce.
Robert Longton
Ramona
Elect the person who can keep us safe
On this, the seventh anniversary of 9/11, we as a nation expect that our lawmakers are doing everything they can to protect us from further terrorist attacks. It was shocking to learn that Congressman Brian Bilbray voted against implementing the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission on terrorist attacks upon the U.S. Three-hundred ninety-nine members of Congress voted to implement the recommendations, and President Bush signed it into law. What kind of judgment does Bilbray have to vote "no" on implementing recommendations to improve homeland security, prevent terrorists from acquiring WMDs and developing strategies for preventing the spread of terrorism?
The bill had overwhelming bipartisan support, as well as the support of the American people. Come Nov. 4, voters of the 50th should be aware of Bilbray#,s irresponsible decision when determining who can best represent their interests and keep our country safe.
Vickie Petrus
Rancho Santa Fe
Palin not showing good parenting
Having listened to both conventions on C-Span, where I had the opportunity to make my own judgment of the candidates, I am terribly disappointed that Hillary Clinton is not going to be our president. She is a lady of class. She showed the Obamas her best, considering how close the nomination was.
This young woman running for vice president has neither the class nor responsible behavior that is required to be president. When a woman decides to have a family, then that family's interest should be her first responsibility. To ignore the needs of her family for her own gratification is selfish.
She's chosen not to protect her daughter, either before or after this recent pregnancy. She does not believe in family planning. She does not believe in responsible control of guns. She is not concerned for the environment. This is the most irresponsible person to ever run for office. Ifˇyou can't show responsibility for your family, how can you expect to be responsible for this country?
Gloria Formica
Oceanside
Giving pit bulls a bad name
Why is Gov. Palin giving a bad name to pit bulls? After all, this is the breed that was the lovable dog on the show "Little Rascals."
Jack Key
Oceanside
Peril still exists today
The Sept. 7 article and color photo seem to support Mrs. Brenda Show's concern over possible further parking restriction in front of her Park Avenue home ("City may exempt some families from parking ordinance"). Visible existing red curbing extending around the corner of Grape Street, however, marks a necessary right-hand turn lane onto Park Avenue; and a blending section for easterly travel via a single left-lane established at the intersection in which Mrs. Show is standing.
Not visible is an in-lane barrier, curing asphalt berm and right-hand only signs advertising Grape Street traffic not to cross the intersection. Signage erected by the city in the 1980s followed a young motorcyclist's collision with a westbound vehicle on the visually restrictive lanes of Park Avenue just short of the intersection. ... Though a risk still exists today, local drivers still ignore warnings, avoid barriers and similarly cross at their peril. The inadequately sized garage may not accept "half a small Volkswagen," states Mrs. Show, but the old structure's access door is nine feet in width.
Kenneth Edwards
Escondido
Meds' side effects part of decision
It is time to update accountability in court decision making. It is past time that court case examiners and judges disclose the medications they are taking. It could be a public duty to do so. The side effects from medications may be a part of the decisions, so it could be known to the public and litigants.
Recently, presidential candidate John McCain disclosed his medications. Why don't all the public officers volunteer to do so?
Ervin Sommer
Escondido
Schoolchildren's safety in Twin Oaks Valley
Many residents of Twin Oaks Valley share the concerns about schoolchildren's safety expressed by Kelly Clark in her Sept. 8 letter to the editor. The safety of children walking to Twin Oaks Elementary, and other existing public and proposed private schools, will be massively and negatively impacted by the circulation element being proposed by the county for inclusion in the new general plan. Deer Springs Road will be reclassified as a six-lane arterial. It is currently a two-lane winding country road.
The county is not requiring new development in the valley to study the certain cumulative impacts of traffic on feeder streets such as La Cienega, Mulberry or Olive in their traffic studies. Many residents think the combination of unbuffered sidewalks and trails with the high-speed traffic Kelly Clark reports is a dangerous planning failure.ˇˇ ˇ
Henry Palmer
San Marcos
Sarah Palin, foreign policy experience
As a former beauty queen, I am sure that Sarah Palin truly desires world peace. But world peace is a complicated thing. We live in a dangerous world where, thanks in part to the disastrous policies of the Bush presidency, there are many forces aligned against us.
I believe it is irresponsible of John McCain, who at 72 is the oldest presidential candidate ever, to name a vice president who has so little experience in foreign affairs. If, as the Republicans so lamely claim, the proximity of Alaska to Russia is what gives Sarah her foreign policy credentials, then she is unqualified to step in as president of the United States.
I doubt that this self-described "pit bull" is striking fear into our good buddy Vladimir's heart. In fact, I suspect he's getting a good chuckle over the preposterous image of Sarah Palin, commander in chief!
Dee Ambrosini
Carlsbad
Nothing has changed in seven years
Well, the seventh anniversary of 9/11 has come up and what has changed in America? For one thing, Osama bin Laden is slowly getting his wish. America is deteriorating slowly. You don't always notice it, but it's there. Our airlines are coming apart. It might be because you can't take anything on them, they charge for everything now and give you nothing, and people are finally getting the hint and figure they'll drive instead. It could be the oil prices. Most of our oil comes from the Middle East, and they all hate us there.
Instead of being the smartest country in the world like we used to be, and figuring out how to use alternative energy, we are stuck with depending on these guys who hate us. Hard to believe they would charge us way more than the product is worth. ... bin Laden must be laughing all the way to his cave.
Hopefully, this country is still smart enough to see through the Democrats' rhetoric of promising everything to everybody without telling you how it will be paid. And in Obama's case, it takes more than a smooth talker to be a good president.
Don Snyder
Oceanside
You can't put in what God left out
One day, more than two decades ago, my young son proclaimed that he was going to be an American Indian. At an age of innocence, and in a world of seemingly limitless opportunity, I (thoughtlessly perhaps) crippled his newfound objective with one fact –– his unmistakable European bloodline. In a moment, he was offended and no amount of reasoning would lessen his pain.
Later, in a quiet moment, I connected with a quote by Bill Bowerman, running coach at University of Oregon. In his Runner's World magazine interview, while he enthusiastically endorsed all his athletes –– especially those who had pushed themselves to the very limit –– he also said, "but you just can't put in what God left out."
The word "marriage" may be an oversimplification in today's world, but it does have unmistakable genealogical structure. Long ago, my son outgrew his quest to be an Indian. He'd uncovered his own identity, and (paraphrasing Joan Horn's letter of Sept. 9) it was time to move on. He learned, it seems, that you can call a cat a fish, but it will not swim.
Jack Wilhelm
Escondido
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SOLON wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:17 AM:Palin doesn’t do things half-way . . .
. . . including telling lies. You got it wrong, Sam Knight (letter). Palin does not tell half-truths. She is 100% lies.
Did you hear about how Barack Obama wants to have sex education in kindergarten, and called Sarah Palin a pig? Did you hear about how Ms. Palin told Congress, “Thanks, but no thanks” when it wanted to buy Alaska a Bridge to Nowhere?
This was the commentary of Paul Krugman:
"These stories have two things in common: they’re all claims recently made by the McCain campaign — and they’re all out-and-out lies.
Dishonesty is nothing new in politics. I spent much of 2000 — my first year at The Times — trying to alert readers to the blatant dishonesty of the Bush campaign’s claims about taxes, spending and Social Security.
But I can’t think of any precedent, at least in America, for the blizzard of lies since the Republican convention. The Bush campaign’s lies in 2000 were artful — you needed some grasp of arithmetic to realize that you were being conned. This year, however, the McCain campaign keeps making assertions that anyone with an Internet connection can disprove in a minute, and repeating these assertions over and over again."
SOLON wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:25 AM:Sarah Palin’s lying . . .
Why do McCain-Palin think they can get away with all their lies? Because the media feel they must be “balanced” at all costs. You know, if Sir Winston Churchill condemns Hitler as a psychopathic maniac, the American press feels compelled to print a response from Adolph. You know “fair and balanced” FOX.
SOLON wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:41 AM:Alaskan women are a tough breed . . .
. . . Yesterday the women of Anchorage held the largest public demonstration in Alaska history, 1,400 strong (plus a few men). It was the day Sarah Palin arrived back in Alaska. But these women were not there to greet Palin, but to jeer</B and denounce her. The rally was organized by a small group of women, talking over coffee. It grew like a wildfire.
A citizen journalist reported: “So, if you’ve been doing the math… Yes. The Alaska Women Reject Palin rally was significantly bigger than Palin’s rally that got all the national media coverage! So take heart, sit back, and enjoy the photo gallery.”
Looks like Saint Sarah is up against the old axiom “A prophet is not without honor except in her own land.” I expect the women of Alaska will crucify Saint Sarah before long. They do not like this woman and what she stands for. Sorry for you, Edith van Kirk (letter today), but you have badly under estimated the women of Alaska.
OBAMA MAMA wrote on Sep 15, 2008 2:03 AM:To thine own self be true ---
Jack Wilhelm’s little parable illustrates a fundamental truth: God made us the way he wanted us, and although we can rail against and fight God’s will, we will be happy only if we enjoy the way the Good Lord made us. God made straight people, and he made gay people. I cherish both among my circle of friends. The one’s I don’t cherish are the one’s who deny and denounce God’s divine wisdom. MAMA has a gay nephew who is just a bundle of joy to all those around him. But MAMA got a 2nd cousin who is a miserable, crotchety old f-rt. Hates gays. Hates happily married folks. He hates people who are blacker than he is. He is not a happy man. Don’t know what his problem is, but God sure nuff didn’t make him that way.
Thank you, Mr. Wilhelm for your little parable.
jvc wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:00 AM:I need a Fed bailout and takeover to help with my economic losses and these losses will have a detrimental effect on my neighbors and the city of Oceanside! Any others care to sign-up for bailouts?
Alf wrote on Sep 15, 2008 4:28 AM:From yesterday-
Thank you, "Lies dont matter" at 6:33PM on the 14th, for coming clean.
You are right, there are people just as "out there" as you presented yourself to be.
Mrs. Alf found the post I showed her to be close to a fanatic she has met.
I get some who are close who venture up my 300 foot driveway to my front door and I politelyinform them that they may leave, usually after wasting a few minutes of their time for fun.
Palin is precisely the opposite of what we need for V.P.!
Regards, Alf.
Focal Point wrote on Sep 15, 2008 6:53 AM:Junious Montgomery: LOL. This guy is the most consistent rancorous complainer against Democrats and Liberals. Monty has made a career of it. Then he crys foul against the Democrats for jumping on McCain/ Palin. Anybody home upstairs. Its a Presidential election. WHAAAAAAAAAA.
OBAMACAN wrote on Sep 15, 2008 7:10 AM:On page A5 of this morning's print edition of the NCT, there is a report that Karl Rove has acknowledged that McCain has gone too far, beyond mere spinning, to misrepresent the truth in his claims about Obama, especially the one where he says Obama supports "comprehensive sex education for kindergarteners."
(Actually what Obama supports is teaching small children how to resist inappropriate touching or advances by predators. Does McCain support the rights of child sexual predators?)
Hey, when Karl Rove accuses a Republican of lying, you know the "straight talk express" has been derailed.
Alf is gracious as always wrote on Sep 15, 2008 7:19 AM:Lies don't matter, here, Alf. I again will apologize to you, though also thank you for being such a caring and sane American. I will take the advice of Apollo and be a straight talker in the future. As each day passes, we are feeling already that the shine is coming off the Palin/McCain phenomenon. This will happen fast. Obama's excitement was built on months and months of hard work, speeches, ideas, and intelligence. Palin's was built on hype and one dramatic big splash. Now she must do the hard work that Obama did for nearly two years, and that McCain did, and that Biden has done. She must meet the grueling schedules. She must answer attacks. She must answer hard questions. She must have every word scrutinized. She has, obviously, her little hard-core fanatical faux-Christian base sewn up. Maybe she and we will learn how very small that group actually is. We're seeing her following shrink a bit already as the lies are displayed. And every time her running mate speaks to an interviewer, even Palin's fans shudder. One can hope... I know you aren't an Obama man, Alf, but I tip my hat to your independence, rationality, and deep passionate love for your country.
ELITIST wrote on Sep 15, 2008 7:27 AM:Elitist or beer-drinkin' buddy?
Who would you rather have in the White House?
Democratic intellectual Thomas Jefferson or gun-totin' Republican Aaron Burr?
par for the course wrote on Sep 15, 2008 7:44 AM:I'll try again today after no response yesterday
Can someone please explain to this simpleton what exactly the "tax cut for the rich" is and how it works? My understanding is that everyone received a percentage of the savings. I know I did and being semi-retired I am far from rich. Did the "rich" receive a larger percentage than I did or did they receive some sort of tax break that I did not?
Thanks for the education, this has bugged me for awhile.
Alf wrote on Sep 15, 2008 7:49 AM:Thank you, "Alf is gracious as always" at 7:19AM.
I trust that you realize that my responses were to the persona you projected and, as such, I do not apologize for them.
All we have here are the words on the screen, unless you have had the opportunity to actually meet others.
Regards, Alf.
Vista Granny wrote on Sep 15, 2008 7:54 AM:Edith Van Kirk writes the strangest things. Remember her diatribe on Mexicans not long ago? To vote for someone simply because they've always lived in darkness for half the year seems a bit odd. Edith is much like those who voted Republican all their lives because they felt the Democrats liked the black folk. (That's not the word they used) God help us if people like her actually win out in this election. Enough is enough.
Vista Granny wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:02 AM:To: Par for the course -- I believe that the tax rate for those making $250,000 annually, or more (approximate guess)was decreased, also the rate they pay on unearned income (capital gains), etc. is quite low. I had quite an interesting conversation with a lady parked next to me at TJ's the other day. She was horrified to see my Obama bumper sticker, because "if he wins, my taxes will go up!" Huh? I'm a little old retired person with very little taxable income. I'm pretty sure she is also, but actually believes she'll have to pay more taxes if Obama wins. Oh well.
Alf wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:07 AM:Well, "par for the course" at 7:44AM,
I'm no accountant and I will probably be corrected, BUT here's the way I THINK it is -
Tax cuts for the "rich" can be anything from reducing the percentage of the highest tax bracket to reducing capital gains tax to any other reduction in tax percentage or any removal of any tax that is percieved to be (only) for the "rich".
10% off of 50k is a lot less dollars than 10% off of 5 million.
Regards, Alf.
pftc wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:17 AM:Thanks Vista Granny for responding. Just a few more questions. Weren't all tax rates decreased including those of us making under 250K? Weren't the capital gains lowered for everyone including those of us making under 250K.
The lady you ran into is indicative of some of the gullible people that will believe anything that "their party" spreads and there are a lot out there.
pftc wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:25 AM:Thanks Alf, I do understand that as a percentage the more you make, the more a decrease will put in the old money bag. Isn't our current tax system based on percentages? What I'm trying to figure out is why is it labeled the "tax cut for the rich"? I do see a correlation between capital gains decrease and ttcftr. It certainly is more likely for rich folks to have investments that are affected by capital gains than us dollar challenged citizens. This middle class taxpayer has however benefitted from the capital gains tax cut and I am in no way rich except in friends and love.
Alf wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:28 AM:Well, "Vista Granny",
from yesterday,
I know that it makes no sense to you for me to write in Ron Paul.
What we have in this "two party" system is always a choice for the lesser of two evils until or unless there is actually a good candidate from one of the two or there is a perfect candidate from a "third" party.
Whether it is throwing my vote away or not, I can not and will not in good conscience vote for either of the top two. Both say that they'll increase spending and balance the budget.
I'm not buying that snake oil from anyone.
For me, voting for the lesser of two evils IS throwing away my vote.
To paraphrase Arlo Guthrie in "Alice's Restaurant" -
Can you imagine if 250 people a day walked into every registrars office, changed to Libertarian, and walked out, they may think it's a movement.
Have a mellow Monday!
Regards, Alf.
OBSERVATION wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:34 AM:Fired Official: Governor Did Not Tell the Truth to ABC""She's not telling the truth when she told ABC neither she nor her husband pressured me to fire Trooper Wooten," said Walt Monegan, the Alaskan official whose dismissal by Sarah Palin is the focus of a state investigation known as "Troopergate". "And she's not telling the truth to the media about her reasons for firing me."
DD Wiz wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:37 AM:The post from "par for the course" (7:44am) is admirable in seeking FACTS instead of slogans. The question about defining "tax cuts for the rich" is a valid one. With apologies, I was not on the board yesterday and did not see your question. For apples-to-apples simplicity, I'll compare rates for married couples filing a joint tax return, but the same ratios apply to other filing statuses.
More comprehensive rates for any year can be verified by checking out the OFFICIAL IRS government website at:
www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=98339,00.html
BUSH IUnder Bush's father (GHWB) there were three tax brackets.
Up to $35,800 15%
$35,801 to $86,500 28%
$86,501 and over 31%%
The tax rate on capital gains (UNEARNED investment income) was 28%
CLINTONTo successfully address the budget deficit, Clinton revised the progressive tax table to FIVE brackets. .
Up to $38,000 15%
$38,0011 to $91,850 28%
$91,851 to $140,000 31%%
$140,000 to $250,000 36%
$250,001 and over 39.6%
The tax rate on capital gains (UNEARNED investment income) remained 28%
As you can see, anyone making less than $140,000 did not see any increase at all, and middle-class job creators earning between $86,500 and $91,850 actually saw a slight tax REDUCTION.
Rates went up on incomes over $140,000 which allowed Clinton to achieve balanced budgets his last four years and spearheaded the greatest prosperity since recovery from the Depression.
DUBYAHere are the rates that George Dubya Bush changed to (still five brackets):
Up to $15,650 10%
$15,651 to $63,700 15%
$63,701 to $128,500 25%
$128,501 to $195,850 28%
$195,851 to $349,700 33%
Above $349,700 35%
The tax rate on capital gains (UNEARNED investment income) plummeted to 15%
As you can see, the rate dropped for the poorest few Americans under $15,650.
The rates remained UNCHANGED for the middle tiers, though the threshold income level was adjusted to result in small tax reductions. The HUGE tax breaks were at the top, where tax rates plummeted for the richest Americans and, especially, note that the rate for UNEARNED INVESTMENT INCOME, which, despite widespread 401k's and IRA's, is still vastly disproportionate to the rich -- for many many of whom it is their sole source of income -- was cut almost in half. This is tax cuts for the rich!
Peace (and sunshine) to all, DD Wiz
Alf wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:38 AM:Well, "pftc" 8:25AM,
how about "labels"?
The "rich" is usually anyone who makes or has more than you.
The "rich" to a renter is a landowner, to a person with a tract house built in the 60s is someone with a newer or bigger house, to the person with a 3000 sq. ft. house it's someone with a 5000 sq.ft. house on a half acre, etc.
It's all relative.
To some, I'm a rich Encinitas landowner, to many of those in Rancho Santa Fe, I'm a pauper.
At least I'm not a Del Martian.
Regards, Alf.
Karl wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:39 AM:My sentiments exactly "Alf" at 8:28 AM. I was going to respond on this but you not only hit it on the head for me you also dropped the Alice's Restaurant line which is very apropos for me.
Peace
Three D wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:58 AM:I am puzzled on two counts by Jack Wilhelm's letter.
First, what does the god of one person's belief system have to do with public policy in a secular society?
Second, if he does want to turn to the god of Judeo-Christian mythology, then either do it right or don't do it at all. The Judeo-Christian Bible defines marriage as the union of one man with multiple underage prepubescent females of the same ethnic tribe, in an arranged marriage, maintaining "dominion" over these wives in the same way as his herds, flocks and other livestock.
Blessings,
3D
Vista Granny wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:00 AM:No, Alf. For once you are incorrect. Only an idiot who rents would think anyone who owns a house is "rich". And, on up the line. Most of us (I'm not a renter, wish I were, no maintenance costs)know full well what RICH is. RICH is those who go on cruises which cost $50,000 for a week and up, RICH people own several houses - all of them over 5,00 sq ft often some in other countries, RICH is owning cars which cost more than some people's homes, RICH is not having to worry about tomorrow -ever.
sdraoul wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:03 AM:DD continues his "rob the rich" inflammatory language designed to bring forth class warfare.
Notice that he says "unearned" investment income in an effort to demonize the well over 50% of the American workers who have pension and 401(k) programs that are taxed at those rates. In other words, all Americans who work and put money in plans that are tax deferred are the filthy rich.
The he demonizes those who make over $63,000 as "the rich" because their taxes were cut by Bush by the huge percentage of slightly less than 4%.
Wow!
The "rich" saw their taxes slashed by 4%.
Ands capital gains taxes "PLUMMETED" according to DD. "PLUMMETED!"
A family of four that makes $40,000 or less a year pays NO TAXES under the Bush tax cut.
Even at 15% capital gains tax, we are the second highest such taxers in the entire world.
Capital gains taxes should be ZERO and income taxes should be cut even further.
As for community organizer Barack's plan to cut taxes for "95%" of Americans, baloney. The bottom 50% of all wage earners in the country pay little if any taxes as it stands today under the Bush plan. What's Obama going to do for them? Oh, yeah, he's going to tax the oil companies then write a McGovern-style check of $1000 to them. Steal from the rich and give it to the poor. Barack Robin Hood Obama!
Apparently he doesn't know that the oil companies only make 8% on their investment. Oil companies pay more in state and federal taxes in 24 hours than Barack Obama and all 2500 of his paid campaign staffers will pay in 100 years. Microsoft and other Silicon Valley companies make 30%-40%-50% or more, why doesn't Obama tax them to play Robin Hood?
Apollo wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:14 AM:Re: SDRaoul (9:03 a.m.)
There goes Raoul again, doing what Republicans do best - take your own biggest flaw and project it onto the other side.
He talks about "class warfare" but it is the rich that has waged war against working people and the middle class.
He talks about all the working people and their 401k's.
Now, c'mon, Raoul. I know you're smarter than this.
The tiny fraction of income that a few workers have in 401k's is miniscule compared to those who have millions invested in hedge funds which, as DDWiz noted, is for many of them their entire HUGE income!
More important, Raoul, these capital gains tax rates don't even apply to 401k's.
Don't tell me you didn't know this!
401k's and regular IRA's are TAX-DEFERRED, and when taken at retirement are taken as ordinary income (at lower rates only because they now get less, being retired).
There you go folks: Republicans just spin, spin, spin and when that doesn't work, they either LIE or MAKE STUFF UP.
Marlowe wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:15 AM:Increasingly, Sarah and John are being called on the flat-out lies they are feeding, non-stop, to us. Lies about Obama, lies about Sarah, one after another. This is starting to impact the glee that moderate Republicans, even, were feeling about their candidates. As we liberals have been saying all along, when you look at McCain and when you look at Palin, unless you're a fanatical fundamentalist or a fanatical war-monger, the more you look the less you see in terms of what our country needs (based on every poll that asks people about issues, about Bush, about Iraq, about just about anything). As the glitter fades and the clever attacks on Obama are seen for what they are, slimy lies, America is realizing that the GOP is offering one and only one thing: four more years of Bush. Permanent tax cuts for the rich. Unprovoked wars that kill our children and bleed our economy. More jobs outsourced. Torture. Eavesdropping without warrants. Cronyism and incompetence. Handouts to big oil, big pharma, big munitions makers. Reversal of Roe v Wade. Teaching Judeo-Christian creations stories in science classes. Insisting that our kids remain as ignorant as possible about sex and many other things. Denying human impact on climate change. More record-setting deficits, the debts passed on to our kids and grandkids. Discrimination against homosexuals. I firmly believe that the large majority of Americans do NOT want these things to continue. All they need to do is learn the truth, which Palin and McCain seem to run from (for good reason!).
Chuck wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:15 AM:Todays Survey: Please check
[ x ] I checked my tire pressure and it is Hussein compliant, but we are not energy independent yet
[ x ] My kindergartener son came home from school today and said there are lots of cool things he wants to check out on little Billy
[ x ] My third grade son came home with his gender selection form, saying his public school teacher said don't be afraid to check female. If anyone laughs you can sue them.
Poor Oil Companies wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:16 AM:They only make an 8% profit! sdraoul has convinced me, those oil companies are really the good guys who are taking it in the shorts!
Thanks for your hard-hitting reporting, sdraoul. I think I will go write a check for those poor oilmen.
ELITIST wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:23 AM:Help me out here. SDRaoul at 9:03 a.m. is talking about liberals' "class warfare" but he wants to completely eliminate all taxes on UNEARNED INVESTMENT INCOME?
Exact quote from Raoul's post: "Capital gains taxes should be ZERO."
That is the mentality that has wreaked economic havoc, and devastation of the middle class and working people, which Republicans (especially gazillionaires like beer heiress Cindy and McCain) want to continue.
Chuck wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:25 AM:If even one liberal knew that not one of the 15 largest oil companies in the world are US owned, maybe they wouldne be so hateful. They say no to drilling and celebrate that we are sending $700 billion a year to the 2-bit oil sheiks, Chavez and Russia to prop up their empires, while weakening ours
Its all relative... wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:27 AM:To be "rich" is relative to what is important to a person. I have a friend that believes to be rich is to have lots of financial means. I disagree with him to a point. I consider myself a rich man. I don't have a lot of money. The Good Lord has blessed me with a wonderful wife, a steady job, provided me with enough income that I could secure a loan to purchase a house and live comfortably. We are happy, in love, and have everything that we need to live. We don't have everything we want, but we get by with what we got, and do so happily.
I think we at times put too much value as to how much material things or how much money a person has to label them successful and rich.
I agree with you Alf, it is all relative...
Focal Point wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:28 AM:Alf[-] wrote on Sep 15, 2008 8:28 AM: 100% agreement from me. I shall be voting Ron Paul as well.
Karl wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:37 AM:Chucks survey
I haven't checked my tire pressure yet today but will do so immediately. Thank goodness I have Alf's rules posted on my workbench (no kidding, right there above my workbench) or I'd have to look them up again. Thanks for the reminder Chuck. Do I need to check the tire pressure on my two all electric golf carts or should I have an expert check my battery chargers to insure they are running at peak performance?
Since my one and only is 26 years old number two and three do not apply. I will answer the survey someday when I am fortunate enough to have grand children.
Oh raoul wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:39 AM:DD gives us government data. You give us Republican fairy tales as usual. Oh, raoul, tell us the one about how great the economy is doing. And that one about how wonderfully W is doing in the global war on terror. We like those stories a lot. Oh, and the one about how terrific it is when corporations and banks, especially banks, are underregulated. That story is particularly important with today's headlines of Lehman and of Chinese powdered milk. LOL
An informal poll wrote on Sep 15, 2008 9:50 AM:Would you rather:
A) Make $100,000 per year and pay 0% in taxes
B) Make $1,000,000 per year and pay 50% in taxes
I don't think any of the so called rich who complain of being soaked in taxes would trade places with any of us under any circumstances.
More lies wrote on Sep 15, 2008 10:13 AM:From the Independent/UK QUOTE As he leaves Iraq this week, the outgoing US commander, General David Petraeus, is sounding far less optimistic than the Republican presidential candidate, John McCain, about the American situation in Iraq. General Petraeus says that it remains "fragile", recent security gains are "not irreversible" and "this is not the sort of struggle where you take a hill, plant the flag and go home to a victory parade... it's not a war with a simple slogan." Ongoing violence is down, but Iraq is still the most dangerous country in the world. Compare this with Sarah Palin's belief that "victory in Iraq is wholly in sight" and her criticism of Barack Obama for not using the word "victory". The Republican contenders have made these claims of success for the "surge" - the American reinforcements sent last year - although they are demonstrably contradicted by the fact that the US has to keep more troops, some 138,000, in Iraq today than beforehand. Another barometer of the true state of security in Iraq is the inability of the 4.7 million refugees, one in six of the population, who fled for their lives inside and outside Iraq, to return to their homes. ENDQUOTE Did you hear what Gen Petraeus says, "not a war with a simple slogan". But McCain/Palin are INSISTING to you and I, the parents of the men and women stationed in Iraq, that Iraq is exactly a war with a simple slogan. Palin even says that her son and his brothers in arms are going to Iraq, which played a role in 911. Lying even to her own son! And why did we ever even GO to Iraq? And why did we do the job so miserably? And why did we stay after the "mission was accomplished"? Palin says the same thing Bush says: God wants it (in other words, God wants our oil buddies to thrive more than Midas...)
Olaf wrote on Sep 15, 2008 10:22 AM:I am confused about the tax rates too! Do the "rich" get taxed more because they didn't earn that money correctly? Do they get taxed more because they don't work harder? I am not sure why we tax hard workers more than the non-hard workers? Is a family of 4 living in SD making 250,000 considered rich? compared to a family of 4 in texas making the same money? Won't the "rich", if taxed more, Hide, ship or claim less income and thus depriving the US money? Won't the taxes on small bussiness owners (also considered rich) be passed on to the consumers??? JUst wondering. I am not from either party and am not rich by anybody's catagory but seem to think that everyone wants more money from me? Is it me? Do I need to care for everyone in the world with my small pocketbook?
Focal Point wrote on Sep 15, 2008 10:36 AM:Palin not showing good parenting: And that is why the Republican conservative right just adores the Queen of the North.
Common sense wrote on Sep 15, 2008 10:42 AM:8% of a gazillion dollars is a lot of profit. And people don’t have to buy Microsoft’s products. Wal-Mart makes due on 3.5% and they're not exactly crying poverty.
Oil and gas should be treated as a utility like electricity and water. Or even auto insurance. All of these are regulated, and rightly so,
because we have to have them.
Alf wrote on Sep 15, 2008 11:02 AM:Well, "Vista Granny" at 9:00AM,
you define it better, hands down.
When Mrs. Alf asks what I want for for any celebration, I almost always say "A million dollars and a Lamborghini Countach (or Diablo)".
One year she found a "matchbox" size Countach and got it for me along with 1 million in "Life" money. She's a fine one, she is, with a sweet voice and good on the piano.
Regards, Alf.
Alf wrote on Sep 15, 2008 11:22 AM:Just for the heck of it -
The column today by Jon Carroll on sfgate (the San Francisco Chronicle) uses the word "kleptocracy".
Read it to see the context!
Regards, Alf.
Ms M wrote on Sep 15, 2008 11:25 AM:John McCain returned to the campaign trail on Monday, only this time without his popular vice presidential pick, Sarah Palin. The results were somewhat less than enthusiastic. As reported by MSNBC's First Read, the Republican presidential nominee addressed a crowd of roughly 3,000 people in a stadium that seats 16,000.
The pictures, however, tell many more words. The Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena where McCain spoke had large swaths of sections entirely empty, an American flag draped over the seats....This is called PATHETIC!
NObama for this Mama wrote on Sep 15, 2008 11:45 AM:I must admit, I am enjoying watching you leftist-loons froth at the mouth because of Palin.
Funny how how the libs are fine with REVERENDS Sharpton, Jackson and now Messiah Obama speak @ churches and speak of their Christian faith and not a peep from any of you. Now comes along Palin and you act like the witch on the Wizard of Oz, screaming, "I'm melting!"
Remember,the more you Donkeys hee-haw, the bigger the Elephant grows!
Happy frothing! LOL
Best model wrote on Sep 15, 2008 12:08 PM:Private sector model always better than public sector; more efficient, better management, better at making economic decisions...Lehman Bros., Merrill Lynch, Bears & Stearn and so on...
BAMA MAMA wrote on Sep 15, 2008 12:27 PM:To: Par for the course
"To whom much is given, much is required."
Sounds to me like the graduated income tax is a Christian principle.
NSShirlock wrote on Sep 15, 2008 12:44 PM:We agree on most things but I'm more conservative than you. Your 8:38 comment hit home 'one man's ceiling is another man's floor.' To some I'm the rich snob on top of the hill. If they only knew. Sigh. Rich to me, is a state of mind. Money comes and money goes. BTW, I'm seriously considering a write-in for Ron Paul.
Marlowe wrote on Sep 15, 2008 12:44 PM:From Bloomberg QUOTE Sept. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain called for more stringent regulations as a financial crisis deepened on Wall Street, and Obama blamed the economic policies of President George W. Bush.
The last eight years ``have brought us to the most serious financial crisis since the Great Depression,'' said Obama, the Democratic nominee, in a statement that also called for ``modernizing'' the rules governing financial institutions. ``We will never put America in this position again,'' McCain, the Republican nominee, told supporters in Jacksonville, Florida. He vowed to ``clean up Wall Street'' and ``replace the outdated, patchwork quilt of regulatory oversight.'' ENDQUOTE As Paul Harvey used to say, what's the rest of the story? The rules that McCain promises to clean up? They were written based on legislation by none other than Phil Gramm, McCain's economy mentor. Look it up, folks. From Mother Jones QUOTE As Mother Jones reported in June, eight years ago, Gramm, then a Republican senator chairing the Senate banking committee, slipped a 262-page bill into a gargantuan, must-pass spending measure. Gramm's legislation, written with the help of financial industry lobbyists, essentially removed newfangled financial products called swaps from any regulation. Credit default swaps are basically insurance policies that cover the losses on investments, and they have been at the heart of the subprime meltdown because they have enabled large financial institutions to turn risky loans into risky securities that could be packaged and sold to other institutions. Lehman's collapse threatens the financial markets because of swaps ENDQUOTE Once again, McCain promises to clean up DC and this turns out to mean clean it up of himself and his closest pals. And you're gonna trust this guy? LOL
Question for Chuck wrote on Sep 15, 2008 12:51 PM:We liberals are in 100% agreement with you about not wanting to fill the purses of oil barons in Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. That's why we say: put everything we've got into renewable energy. That's the only solution. You have a fantasy that drilling more will save the day. So the percentage of oil we import declines from just about all to nearly all? Or to half? And we continue being an oil-based society? That's still way too much power handed over to the Saudis and Venezuelans for my liking. Let's become self-sufficient for a real change.
SOLON wrote on Sep 15, 2008 12:53 PM:You heard it from Apollo:
"There goes Raoul again, doing what Republicans do best - take your own biggest flaw and project it onto the other side.
He talks about "class warfare" but it is the rich that has waged war against working people and the middle class."
And the Republican corollary of this tactic is "Take your opponent's strongest point and tear him down on that." It's called Swiftboating. This evil and destructive tactic took the heroism of Vietnam Vets and mocked them. Remember patriot John Kerry. Then remember draft-dodger Cheney, and deserter George W. Bush who walked away from his legal military obligation.
Chuck wrote on Sep 15, 2008 12:54 PM:>>Capital gains taxes should be ZERO."
That is the mentality that has wreaked economic havoc, and devastation of the middle class and working people>>> Thats what the public schools would have you believe. Lower taxes on risk capital actually raises revenue to this country. People are incentived to new inventions, new cures, new processes which leads to new business, new hirings, higher salaries, higher benefits etc, etc. It's a concept hateful to liberals
Ms M wrote on Sep 15, 2008 12:58 PM:NObama for this Mama
[-] wrote on Sep 15, 2008 11:45 AM:...you bet your sweet bippy that I'm frothing at the mouth. I may be a lib but I'm an American first and the thought of someone like Palin being a heartbeat from CIC makes me more than froth at the mouth and question what in the heck are the cons doing to our country and the stupid folks that think she is READY!!!
Ron Paul wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:01 PM:Write-ins for Ron Paul are welcome. At all costs, we must not let McWar continue the Bush Massacre on the United States.
Chuck wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:03 PM:>>>I'm seriously considering a write-in for Ron Paul.>>>>
I'm doing a write in also, but for me. I need the support of this board to bring you all the happiness and glee you so deserve
Ms M wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:16 PM:Hey Nate, I haven't had a chance to check our your party - too busy trying to keep McBush from being our next CIC. Let me get through this election and I'll check it out along with the other independent parties platforms.
I know that you indie's are going to do write ins - I am not going to take a chance on wasting a vote to make a statement and look up and McCain is pres. It would be a shame if your votes indeed pushed McCain over, then the silence from your statement will be devasting.
OBAMA mAMA wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:47 PM:Miss Sarah stood before the Republican convention, with the whole world listening, and declared that the only difference between a hockey moom and a pit bull was LIPSTICK. Miss Sara announced that she was the pit bull with the lipstick. MAMA don't say it. Miss Sarah said it.
Lipstick doesn't just differentiate the hockey moms from the pit bulls. Lipstick conceals the harsh, anti-woman actions of McCain and Bush. Bush went searching, high and low, for women, preferably attractive ones, from groups opposed to such things as equal pay, health care for all, contraception and shelters for battered women. He struck gold with Miss Sarah.
Though most women believe everyone should have affordable health care, the number of uninsured climbed from 36 million in 2000 to 47 million today. McCain voted against coverage for 10 million uninsured kids, and when a bipartisan majority in Congress passed the measure, Bush vetoed it because he considered it a step toward "federalizing" medicine. McCain applauded Bush's veto, earning "The Worst Senator for Children" rating from the Children's Defense Fund.
McCain gets MAMA's vote, too, as the worst Senator for Women. After reading about all those women up in Alaska demonstrating against Miss Sarah, I think we have discovered Miss Sarah is a not even a pit bull. She is just a mouth painted with lipstick.
Straight Jacket Express wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:50 PM:If ignorance is truly bliss, the McCain/Pailin ticket is in nirvana. It is the Wiggins & Tudball Straight Jacket Express, and, if not for the danger it poses to the freedoms of our republic, would be quite laughable.
No Ron Today wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:51 PM:Must be busy unloading his stocks, lickity-split.
Clinging to their guns and religion wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:55 PM:And still voting against their own best interests.
Let's send out a big thank you today to Phil (You Bunch of Whiners) Gramm, John McCain's Financial Advisor.
Senate Vote On Passage: S. 900 [106th]: Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act May 6, 1999
A vote to repeal the Glass-Steagall Act , and deregulate the financial markets. As pushed by Phil Gramm.
Aye AZ McCain, John [R]
Noblesse Oblige wrote on Sep 15, 2008 1:59 PM:From Wikipedia:
"Noblesse oblige" is generally used to imply that with wealth, power and prestige come responsibilities. The phrase is sometimes used derisively, in the sense of condescending or hypocritical social responsibility. In American English especially, the term has also been applied more broadly to those who are capable of simple acts to help another, usually one who is less fortunate.
In ethical discussion, it is sometimes used to summarize a moral economy wherein privilege must be balanced by duty towards those who lack such privilege or who cannot perform such duty. Finally, it has been used recently primarily to refer to public responsibilities of the rich, famous and powerful, notably to provide good examples of behaviour or to exceed minimal standards of decency.
sdraoul wrote on Sep 15, 2008 2:08 PM:Oh what poor understanding of Public Finance these bloggers have.
Yes IRA and 401 (k) accounts are tax deferred and when taken out after retirement are taxed at the current rate. Right!
But they are taxed as income not capital gains and if one's total retirement income is less than 30-40,000 dollars, one probably pays no taxes, thus they escape capital gains taxes, which in many cases are really double taxed.
As for being an "elitist" I plead guilty even though no one on this board knows what an “elitist” is. I would rather see a 10% flat tax for all, no deductions, and no capital gain taxes so investment money would be available for job creation which doers come from investment capital.
Obviously the "Robin Hoods" among us have no concept that in every instance in which capital gains taxes are lowered revenue to the federal and state governments INCREASE, in each instance. That is beyond debate. No one can debate that point, NO ONE, especially DD and his followers on this board.
Every tax cut since JFK has increased tax revenues, every single one. Of that there is no debate, none.
Like John F. Kennedy said, “A rising tide lifts all boats.” Reagan and Bush have proven that. The capital gains tax should be eliminated, period.
That would accomplish two things – more revenue and more investment and savings which also produces more investment. An economy cannot grow without investment capital.
SOLON wrote on Sep 15, 2008 2:39 PM:The Dow Jones industrial average ended the day down 504.48 points, or 4.4%, to 10,917.51. It was the worst one-day percentage drop since the blue-chip index slid 4.6%, on July 19, 2002.
Old Man McCain painted his face, stuck a feather in his headband, and started dancing the War Dance, chanting he is gonna' clean up Wall Street. Maybe he plans to lob a nuke on Wall Street. Poor, pathetic old man. He hasn't the foggiest what to do except do his war whoop.
DD Wiz wrote on Sep 15, 2008 2:45 PM:The posts from "Clinging to their guns and religion" (1:55pm) and "sdraoul" (2:08pm) both misstate facts in different ways.
"Clinging" does quote Obama's words accurately, but Obama was speaking informally and not from prepared notes, and has since clarified his point, which was that the economic devastation wrought by the Bush economic train wreck has driven people to seek comfort in those things they trust most. For most, it is their abiding faith in something greater than themselves, and the security of their second amendments rights. He has said that a better term would have been "turn to" rather than "cling to."
And, what can we say about "sdraoul"? He admits that deferred taxation on retirement income from IRA's and 401k's is taxed as "income" and "not capital gains." Which is exactly the point "Apollo" made earlier, and exactly opposite of "sdraoul's" own earlier statement, rendering his earlier statement completely void, as "Apollo had noted."
And his point citing Kennedy's quote fails to note that Kennedy made the statement in support of a 70% top marginal rate. Does "sdraoul" thus mean to say that, in supporting Kennedy's view, that he proposes a return to the Kennedy tax reform (actually passed and enacted by LBJ in 1964 after Kennedy's death), and thus a top marginal rate of 70%?
"sdraoul" makes factual claims about revenue increases. When I make claims I back them up. "sdraoul," who claims to be some kind of amateur "journalist," never provides supporting documentation. Not ever! He just thinks we should trust him. Yet he has been caught in factual errors so many times that it would be silly and foolist to accept something as fact just because he says so.
Don't just invent claims, "sdraoul" -- if you claim that every tax cut since Kennedy has increased revenue, please cite the specific tax cut, and the change in revenue. Oh, and also please compare the tax INCREASES under LBJ, Reagan and Clinton and the subsequent changes in revenue.
Peace (and sunshine) to all, DD Wiz
Oh Please wrote on Sep 15, 2008 2:59 PM:sdraoul:
But they are taxed as income not capital gains and if one's total retirement income is less than 30-40,000 dollars, one probably pays no taxes, thus they escape capital gains taxes, which in many cases are really double taxed."
No one can retire on $30,000 or $40,000.
OBSERVATION wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:02 PM:KARL ROVE:
"Even Karl Rove had to admit yesterday that the McCain campaign's lies and negative attacks have gone "too far."
John McCain is running the most negative and dishonest campaign in modern presidential history. He has demonstrated that he'd rather lose his integrity than lose this election. "
Cluckonomics wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:09 PM:Chuck wrote: "...which leads to new business, new hirings, higher salaries, higher benefits etc, etc."
So why has it not happened? Looks like it's going in the opposite direction on all fronts.
yes and no raoul wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:21 PM:Yes indeed capital can be reinvested and grow jobs and the economy. But what if those wealthy folks choose not to invest it in business-growing enterprises? What if they just buy stuff? More to the point, what if the job-growing investments they turn that capital gain into is all overseas? Your economic theory is about the economy, the world-wide travel of money and goods. But meanwhile, as your fat cats are getting wealthier and wealthier, and even if they reinvest it all so that they can wealthier still, what if all the economic growth and the job growth happens elsewhere? Why should Americans watch their country's infrastructure and services decline so that India, Indonesia, and Thailand can grow? I hate to tell you, raoul, but capitalists are not necessarily patriots in the slightest.
Ms M wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:25 PM:Responding to criticism over his comment from earlier in the day that the "fundamentals of our economy are strong," this afternoon McCain defined those fundamentals.....
When asked by a questioner what specifically McCain would do to solve the current crisis, he outlined his plan to rescue troubled home mortgages, saying that the housing crisis was the "root" of the problem.
"I think we have to look at the root cause of this problem as it began and that was the housing market and the housing market as you know, has still not continued its descent in home values," McCain said. "And so I think that the real turnaround will be when that shakes out and we begin to allow people to stay in their homes, be able to have a future that they know that the value of their home will gradually increase and they'll be able to realize the kind of future in their lives that the deserve and need."
DUH! You know folks, McBush does not have a clue regarding the economy.
And lies about other lies wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:40 PM:Now McCain says that Obama did NOT refer to Palin when speaking of a pig with lipstick. So does that mean McCain is taking back his earlier claim that his campaign ads that said so were misleading or false? Of course not! McCain still stands by the truth of his ads, saying that Obama chooses his words carefully. Huh? Johnny, do you think Obama called Sarah a pig or not? These people are pathetic, aren't they? McCain is just making this nonsense up as he goes along. One day, up is down. Next day, down is down, but I also stand by yesterday's statement that it's up. Next question, please. Pathetic. And, no, this is not a "gaffe". This is deliberate bs-ing, confused and absurd as it may be. Oh, yes, this is the fresh hope for Washington, all right.
Second thoughts wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:50 PM:It sure has been fun to watch all those white women flock to Sarah and the GOP, hasn't it? You could see it in their faces and hear it when they were interviewed. "Sarah is just like ME!" Now a week has passed. These same women are having a follow-up thought: "Am I really presidential material? Do I know enough to go toe to toe with Putin?" Then they hear and read about Sarah. Sarah wants to send more and more troops -- these women's kids --to places like Iraq because God told her to. Sarah wants no abortions for girls and women -- these women and their kids -- even if they are raped. Then they learn that a lot of what Sarah has been saying about herself and Obama are actually lies. So, these good women think, the next time they hear Sarah speak, can they believe what she says? Hmmm. Something to think about. The McCain team didn't think two months was enough time for Americans to have second thoughts, but it turns out it was plenty of time.
pftc wrote on Sep 15, 2008 3:56 PM:To Noblesse Oblige @ 1:59 PM and BAMA MAMA @ 12:27 PM:
"To whom much is given, much is required."
From Matt Kelley, USA TODAY subject charitable contributions
John McCain
"nominee John McCain reported income of $405,409 last year".
"John McCain reported giving more than $202,000 — a quarter of his income — to charity in 2006 and 2007, the only years for which his campaign released his tax returns."
"Republican presidential nominee John McCain reported income of $405,409 last year. His w