Umm.. wrote on Sep 21, 2008 6:48 PM:It's just a matter of time before OUSD says that this bond was not enough because now more students are coming and they need more...

Tony wrote on Sep 21, 2008 7:17 PM:The schools get $5,700 per student. Interesting, most Catholic schools are considerably cheaper and have a considerably higher level of achievement. I guess it isn’t all about money.

Vote NO on PROP T wrote on Sep 21, 2008 7:28 PM:"enrollment in the high schools could decline as well"! Duh! Enrollments in Escondido have stagnated! Prop T will cost taxpayers over $400 million over 44 years, paying for additional classroom space for only 500 students. Vote NO on Prop T.

P wrote on Sep 21, 2008 7:54 PM:More money for the districts. Never mind the overcrowded classrooms.

Whered the data come from wrote on Sep 21, 2008 9:41 PM:This article claims $5,700 per student, yet as far back as 2004 the US Dept of Ed. was showing CA at over $8,000 per student. That figure has continued to grow and at last chek was approaching $9,000 per student. Now if we take VUSD's budget of around $200,000,000 and divide by the 23,000 students we get around $8,696, or very close to the $9,000 reprted by US Dept. of Ed. And this budget number doesn't even include the Title I funding the District gets for all the underperforming students. Nor does it include many of the other catagorical funds the District gets. So, again I must ask, "Where did the NCTimes get its data?"

Focus on the Facts wrote on Sep 21, 2008 10:42 PM:When you compare Catholic schools to public school be aware that Catholic schools, as well as all private schools, can refuse to admit any students with special education needs. Public schools MUST enroll all students and must provide all services required by law to educate them. These include individual aides, specialized sensory therapies, psychological testing, assistance with medical apparatus & medications, and even, in some cases, placement in private schools - all at no cost to families. Some students' annual cost of services are more than $50,000. Yet the federal govt gives schools less than 20% of the cost of these services.

Don't be fooled by the numbers quoted by "Where'd the data come from". The figure quoted for each school's annual budget includes money from ALL sources: local, state, and federal. CA schools get %5700 per student from Sacramento.

When districts grow or shrink the changes don't come in even packages of 30 students in a specific grade, allowing for easy adjustment of one class at one school.

Those of you who find it so easy to criticize schools should attend board meetings regularly to learn more about what really goes on, both good and bad. Maybe then you'll really understand test scores, district budgets, and the need for school bonds.

Hello wrote on Sep 21, 2008 11:02 PM:VUSD has been under the illusion that their numbers are increasing and there have been people in the community that have been saying for years that the enrollment is declining. Thank you NC Times for reporting this so that all will finally know the truth about the declining enrollment in VUSD.

James wrote on Sep 21, 2008 11:14 PM:Yes lets not blame the parents for not wanting to enroll their kids in school districts like Vista Unified. I will do what ever I have to do to make sure my kids don’t end up in VUSD. If I have to work two fulltime jobs to pay for private tuition I will do it. I only hope the market will change so that I too can place my kids in a trustworthy school district.

Fuzzy Wazzy wrote on Sep 21, 2008 11:18 PM:Whered the data come from- I totally agree with you the numbers the school districts give the reporters are really fuzzy. I have told the North County reporters that the data is way outdated and I confirmed that numbers of $ 8, 696 and over by calling other school districts.

Umm.. wrote on Sep 22, 2008 1:34 AM:Maybe the data comes from Posterious Reporting.. and read that sentence with the $5700 in it again. It's just not quite right. You'll see..

Another NO on T wrote on Sep 22, 2008 5:58 AM:"enrollment in the high schools could decline as well, said Barry Dragon, assistant superintendent in charge of business services for the high school district."

So, tell me again why a new school is needed....

Let's improve the current schools using your promised redevelopment money.

Please, keep your hands out of my pocket. Times are tough.

Thank you NCT wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:11 AM:In a recent article published by NCT, we found our childs school was ranked a 4 meaning principal and teachers were being replaced and that due to poor educational programs we could send our child to another school. Not only did our family send our child to a better school but numerous families we have talked to have or are doing the same.

No money for schools wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:14 AM:until they can guarantee that my tax money is paying to educate legal american citizens.

powaymom wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:31 AM:to James
Don't worry about getting a second job! You can apply for an interdistrict transfer and enroll your children in any school district in San diego, but you will have to get them there. Some districts won't let you in their more crowded schools (think poway and RBHS) but they will let you in somewhere.

To Tony wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:55 AM:Last time I looked I didn't see a whole lot of non-English speaking students in a Catholic school or 30 students packed in one class. As a matter of fact all I saw was a large majority of middle to rich class white kids. Don't even try to compare education levels when you are comparing apples to oranges.

Parent wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:27 AM:Can't afford that private school anymore.

Huh wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:08 AM:To to Tony: that is a very racist remark. At what specific Catholic school did you "look and didn't see a whole lot of non-English speaking students"? Did you actually go into a Catholic school classroom and conduct a English speaking poll as your statement implies? Are you saying that white kids are smarter (have a higher education level) then non-whites? FYI non-English has nothing to do with being white. Many Asian kids grow up with English as their second language and those kids routinely score very high on testing. Are you trying to race bait and make excuses for underachieving Latinos, or do you just hate white people?

Turn On wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:14 AM:Turn on the cameras, the kidlets are back in school.

Question wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:19 AM:Does anyone know if the individual school budgets are available online? If not where can you get them?
Thanks

Oceanside Improvement wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:22 AM:We left Oceanside's public schools because Oceanside seemed only concerned with bringing up the lower achieving kids. This year we returned because our school is now Martin Luthur King Middle School. The principal at MLK Middle actually seems to care about challenging the higher achieving kids as well as the lower achievers. Thank you, Bob Rowe!

from public to private wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:00 AM:My daughter attended public school from k-3rd, but due to the quality of education, over packed classroom and lack of return comunication from school staff I pulled my daughter out and placed her in private school where she has been since 4th grade, now in the 7th, and in a classroom of just 12 student. She attends a k-12 private school in Escondido with less then 200 students in the entire school, better staff, everyone knows everyone and the education is beyong measure.

I'm sure some school districts are excited to see a rise in student enrollment, but I would never have my child go back to the another crowded school/classroom. It just isn't worth it and I would rather pay for the education that my child deserves. At least I know where my money is going also.

Missy wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:05 AM:I would like to know the source for the decline in Vista. The article sited other disctricts reasons for decline. Is it class size, percentage of ESL students? Increased enrollment in private schools? From what I have seen the $5,000 (or more) spent on private schooling is the better bet. You know your child' classromm will not exceed 20-25 students, english is the language all subjects are taught in and security is a top priority.

Jaque wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:19 AM:Enrollment up? Enrollment down? Who cares. No new taxes either way

Patriot wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:32 AM:Sorry, "No money", but that guarantee will never come. Schools by law aren't allowed to ask about immigration or citizenship status. Besides, "in the school business, growth is a good thing" and denying any kid enrollment is bad for business. Politicians who rely on campaign contributions from the teachers' unions won't dare change any laws if the change could result in teacher layoffs.

TO To Tony wrote on Sep 22, 2008 11:59 AM:Obviously you have not check at the Catholic School my children attend. Although you are correct that ALL children speak read and write in English, more than half the students are Hispanic. In fact, more than half the parishioners of the church are Hispanic. As for income, more than half qualify for school lunches at the local public school. But, these families scrape, scratch, and pool funds from their extended family to send their children to a school that supports their values and actually Educates their children! Now, stop trying to make private schooling vs Public schooling a racial issue: it is an issue of FREEDOM! Freedom of choice and FREEDOM to learn what is needed to achieve success in America!

Data wrote on Sep 22, 2008 12:06 PM:San Diego County's more than 450,000 public school students generated about $4 billion in average daily attendance in 2006-07. Districts were paid an average ADA of $9,205, according to the most recent data available.

SOURCE: San Diego County Office of Education

gringo wrote on Sep 22, 2008 1:02 PM:RE: no money for schools
Ditto's

dumbing down america wrote on Sep 22, 2008 1:39 PM:look at all the sheeple ba ba ba
public education is no good

To Patriot wrote on Sep 22, 2008 2:46 PM:That is only an interpretation of Liberal Judges. We voters voted for and approved a Porp that required Citizenship. Thus, if we still feel strongly about this issue we can recall the judges, or pass an amendment to our State Constitution. Then, it would require an appeal to the US Supreme Court to overturn. If this were done, then CA would have a LEGAL right to require the Federal government to provide equal funding for all foreign citizens attending CA Schools. By the way, you will find that Colleges and Universities require non-citizens to pay an out of state fee (except in the case of those who have violated our Federal Laws and entered our Country illegally - go figure!). This out of state fee is considered Constitutional due to the fact that these schools are subsidized by state taxes for all state residents. So, since k-12 schools are also subsidized by local and state taxes there is a precedence set that would permit the state to charge non-residents for their tuition. Of course, it will take the PEOPLE rising up and demanding our elected officials to actually enforce our laws (do they really do that anymore?)!

To Focus on the Facts wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:08 PM:Private schools do take special Ed students, and in some cases receive Federal Funding for them. Of course, many parents of these children do not know this because no Public School will ever tell them such. Instead, they continue to make claims that Private School don't have to take Special Ed. Students.
You also say the $5,700 if State money and the rest of the funds mentioned in the nearly $9,000 per student is from other sources. Though technically correct, most of this funding is also directly associated with the ADA of the District and thus for this article to be accurate it should have included the other funds from other sources. This would have clearly showed just how big an impact declining enrollment really is to a District.
Finally, as to that additional funding and the total of around $9,000 per student per year: It is this TOTAL per student Figure that the US Department of Education uses when comparing state with state. In the case of CA we find the USDoEd shows CA in the Top 10 states for Total per student funding while test scores remain at 48th in the nation. So, obviously amount of money spent does not equate to quality of education provided. Something else must be wrong in CAs Public Education system. But, as long as the Teacher's Union continues to focus the Public's attention on Funding for the schools, the real problem will never be found or addressed. Class-size also is found to have little or no direct correlation to quality of education provided when looking at the differences between 25 students per class and 30 students per class. In fact, as the age of the student increases, the difference in education quality and class size becomes less and less. This is clearly shown when you look at Colleges and Universities where it is not uncommon for lower division, entry level courses (this means the student was typically in High School last year) are often offered in class-sizes containing between 30 and 400 students. Even in the larger classes with TAs you will find the TA has between 50 and 100 students assigned. So, if the High School classes are between 30 and 35 students, it is simply getting them ready for college.
By the way, in the 1970's (yes here in CA) I attended a Highs School with over 5000 students and an average class-size of 35 students. Our dropout rate was less than 1% and we had about 15% English learners attending the High School. Graduation was around 98% and over 60% of graduates attended college or university. My Graduating class was 998 students, and we just had our 30th reunion. Of the nearly 700 who attended most had a 4-year degree and about 30% had graduate degrees. And no, I did NOT attend a school in a wealthy area, though most of us would now be considered middle to upper middle class today.

surprise surprise wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:40 PM:the school districts enrollment is up - funny, could it be because they closed most of the charter schools? In California, one out of four students students do not graduate from high school - that is unacceptable. Charter schools sprang up to help alleviate that statistic but the school districts did all they could to close the charter schools but for all the wrong reasons. Teachers' unions also wanted the charter schools closed. So now enrollment is up. But kids failing school will be up again also. We all lose.

All-American Parent wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:32 PM:My children attended catholic school in Escondido. They have also attended our public schools here in Escondido. Being a parent and employee of both private and public schools, I have seen the needs of kids that attend public and private schools. Parents that send their children to private schools are usually more concerned about their education and school environment. We have many parents in the public school that don’t even pick up their kid after class has been dismissed for over one hour. What kind of support do teachers get from these types of parents? None!

Face reality! Little Mexico is here and growing!! Get involved or get out of town!

To Barry Dragon wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:55 PM:You said "enrollment in the high schools could decline as well", while at the same time you and the rest of the Escondido Union High School board are claiming "overcrowding" is the reason a 98 million bond is needed.
Which is it?? You can't have it both ways. Clearly, EUHSD is lying to us! Prop T will really cost the taxpayers millions more that the stated cost by the time it is paid off, if it ever is.
No more money for schools.VOTE NO ON T!

To Surprise wrote on Sep 23, 2008 4:46 AM:One way to bring the crime down is to close charter schools! Ask why they are being closed before you blame the pubic schools!

To powaymom wrote on Sep 23, 2008 10:47 AM:Vista Unified is not allowing students to have interdistrict transfers out, but will accept interdistrict transfers from students coming in.

SanMarcosMom wrote on Sep 23, 2008 2:04 PM:San Marcos won't allow interdistrict transfers out either unless family hardship is proven or employment in another district.
As for the Catholic school I know of in Escondido, there are class sizes exceeding 30. There are also many Philipino and Mexican families as well as white families. The common denominator is the desire for high expectations and good behavior on the part of the students.