John wrote on Sep 22, 2008 1:16 AM:S.2433. How is Obama going to pay for his Global Poverty Act of 2007? More than $240 Billion and the act gives the UN authority to increase it. We have a crisis here and he is giving away huge sums.

Confused voter wrote on Sep 22, 2008 2:05 AM:Well today's letters explaining Prop 8 were informative (not). It seems apparent that this issue is as crystal-clear as the the question of when life begins. If there is someone who actually understands it, please respond here. Thank you.

Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 4:48 AM:>>>McCain will continue Bush's failed policies>>> And Hussein will continue the failed policies of Stalin, Lenin, Castro, and Chavez

PlyingTheRaceCard wrote on Sep 22, 2008 4:52 AM:LOL, the media is desperate. Hussein and the media are so desperate now, they plastered the airwaves all weekend with: you whities who don't vote for Hussein are all racists.
Naturally,in the interest of journalism, they don't mention their recent poll that 99% of blacks are voting for Hussein.

Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 4:58 AM:>>McCain is out of touch with reality>>
Is that true?? How about Hussein, whose best job was stapling flyers on telephone polls, then he befriended a terrorist, a racist minister, and has some shady real estate deals with a gangster. Then he started running for president. Hussein is a nothing but amarionette, fronting forthe Stalinist left

Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 5:03 AM:The news is reporting that Alec Baldwin was suicidal after angry voicemail became public. Gee, that really breaks my heart. Maybe some of Pulse's voicemail can become public. Seething hate for America will make one suicidal, because they're too chicken to move somewhere where they'd be beter off

Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 5:06 AM:The news is reporting that a Judge orders a man to pay thief convicted of stealing from him. How liberal of him. This is how low the liberals have infested this country

Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 5:34 AM:The news is reporting that Pakistan troops fire upon 2 U.S. copters that intruded over border. That will keep Pelosi, Hussein, Reid, Kennedy and Murtha in celebration mode, and Chris in a state of total nirvana

Ron wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:33 AM:Ya just don't get it...
Do ya? "gracchus" {Sep 21) @10:27 PM?

I'll bet your thinking this.. so-called
"extreme stratification of wealth" in the united states, or anywhere else is a fairly recent phenomena?
Quickly, it's not. It's as old as mankind.

Do you think back in our hunter-gather days there was not stratification of "the wealth?" The antelope, or whatever else they had to catch?
Here's what this deal really is.
You probably had some caveman back in the day, who wouldn't go out and hunt or gather, but he fully intended a full share of the take, on that particular day. And he was probably a forebearer of Karl Marx too. He probably sat back in the cave, while the rest of the men went out to hunt, sitting and entertaining the women with his cave drawings, spinning yarns about how he could do it better, and how he was actually smarter, because he was able to sit back in the warm cave with all the women folk, able to do whatever he want to do, while these suckers went out and brought back food for him to eat. A "community organizer", no less.
A cave hustler, and he probably boosted himself up to these cavegals, drawing them his little cave drawings, trying to impress them with his yarns about the time he did catch a huge beast, when the reality is, the guy lived off the suckers out in the snow, while he was living the life of luxury, thinking he's smart. Complaining about his portion of the meat, nuts and berries. Which, in the end, probably perfectly describes how our genepool is so out of wack.
Clearer now?

I dont get it wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:34 AM:Just to remind y'all, it is John McCain, not Sarah Palin, running for President. We are all aware of how well John McCain was doing among Republicans and among Americans in general. We see John McCain talking about various issues and see why he is not considered the President we need right now. Why, even when he campaigns, he's learned that if he doesn't have Palin with him, not many people show up. So, while I understand how spunky and unblinking Palin is, and how fun to be part of the excitement, I don't really see any Republican enthusiasm for John McCain. The person you might elect to the White House. You Republicans have made it clear that you don't like his stances on many issues. You clearly don't trust him. Even Rush and Coulter were appalled to see him win and talked about sitting this one out. So despite spunky Sarah, you might want to think twice about a McCain presidency. Unless, of course, you think Bush has been a great one.

Alf wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:43 AM:Well, "Chuck" at 6:49PM on the 21st,
"Chris" is wrong when he stated "So there goes Chuck making up stories. He talks about going up devils slide trail and at the top there were these women in high heels".
According to Mrs. Alf, Devil's Slide goes up to a plateau and joins several other trails, one of which DOES INDEED go to the top near the tram.
BTW, in June of 2006, Mrs. Alf and several other masochistic members of her church did the Half Dome Hike in one day, the only part that Mrs. Alf could not do was the last bit at the cables. She was hurting for awhile after that one.
Regards, Alf.

Ron wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:44 AM:Linda Knight says: "President should be smarter than we are."

You know what, Linda? They just proved they ARE smarter than you are.

>>>For anyone considering voting for John McCain, please think about your Social Security floating away in the Wall Street flood of red ink, courtesy of privatized Social Security accounts.>>>

And government has NO red ink?

Case closed.... LOL

She Said wrote on Sep 22, 2008 6:57 AM:The ok news is that Obama is 52% to 36% in California. The absolutely greatest ever news is that neither party is currently sponsoring tv ads.

Backwards Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:03 AM:Chuck, at 534, thinks the Pakistanis firing at our choppers will make liberals happy. Actually, it's the exact opposite. Pakistan was a strong ally of ours after 911, determined to help us fight the Taliban. Thanks to Bush's policies, this same government is now shooting at us. In other words, they've become our enemy. Having a new enemy is what sends conservatives like Chuck into swoons of pleasure. Another nation just chock full of people to despise! Another country to encourage our leaders to vaporize! No, Chuck, it's obviously you that is celebrating. You and your leader W have once again forced the world, even our allies, into your paranoid and hostile world view. Keep this up (with McCain in charge) and in no time we will be at war with everyone on the planet. Your dream!

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:13 AM:Here's some morning truth with your coffee.

McBush lied again (how many times is this now) trying to connect Mr. Obama directly to the government bailout of the mortgage giants this month by charging that he takes advice from Fannie Mae’s former chief executive, Franklin Raines, an assertion both Mr. Raines and the Obama campaign dispute.

How strange, both men deny that ever happened and OF COURSE McBush had no proof, just made up stories.

But as occurs countless times along this march to November 4th, Senile Grandpa McBush doesn't watch who is sleeping in his bed now does he?

Incensed by the advertisements, several current and former executives of the companies came forward to discuss the role that Rick Davis, Mr. McCain’s campaign manager and longtime adviser, played in helping Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac beat back regulatory challenges when he served as president of their advocacy group, the Homeownership Alliance, formed in the summer of 2000.

“The value that he brought to the relationship was the closeness to Senator McCain and the possibility that Senator McCain was going to run for president again,” said Robert McCarson, a former spokesman for Fannie Mae, who said that while he worked there from 2000 to 2002, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac together paid Mr. Davis’s firm $35,000 a month.

Several former executives of the companies said Mr. Davis did draw Mr. McCain to a 2004 awards banquet that the companies’ Homeownership Alliance held in a Senate office building. The organization printed a photograph of Mr. McCain at the event in its 2004 annual report, bolstering its clout and credibility.

Tisk, tisk, tisk...the lying and misleading go on non-stop. Conservatives can only lie or talk about Bill and Monica ten years ago. It's all they have.

When was the last time a Conservative made a proud statement about the Republican administration of the last 8 years?? When??

Oh Please wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:16 AM:Chuck[-] wrote on Sep 22, 2008 5:06 AM: What judge? What was the law and circumstances? What was the news organization? New is news so really give us some this next time.

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:24 AM:Ron stated yesterday that it is the right of a boss to fire an employee for incompetence. Yes, Ron, but laws had to be created to stop people like Ron from discriminating against people, harrassing people, making the work enviornment uncomfortable. So when a "boss" like Ron comes to work and tries to get an employee to fire another employee unethically, we the regular people are protected. Of course its the thinking of employers like Ron that laws have been enacted. Employers that only think about the dollar and not the people making the dollars.

Oh Ron, its 2008 and even if your business runs on the same ethics that were imposed in the 1800's, and your fundamentalist attitude resides there, try to talk about 2008 instead of cavemen and Bill Clinton. Let's talk Bush and McBush...those two firecraker politicans you're so proud of because they are all that counts to us.

Focal Point wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:26 AM:MOSCOW - A Russian navy squadron set off for Venezuela Monday, an official said, in a deployment of Russian military power to the Western Hemisphere unprecedented since the Cold War."
We played in their back yard. So, the Russians will begin to play in our back yard.

To Ron wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:27 AM:I don't believe any liberal here has ever stated that the U.S. doesn't have red ink. In fact, most have been very worried over the national debt, our spending in Iraq, the country's infrastructure, and the spending of Social Security's funds willy nilly. I, for one, believe that Bush, McCain and most Republicans high up have finally found a way to "starve Social Security" out of existence!! That was their war cry you know. As it is, Social Security taxes, which cause many low-paid workers to pay a higher percentage of taxes than gazillionaires some times do, are going into the treasury and being spent on Iraq - and of course this bail out. Long, long ago, I had major, major surgery, then lost my job in the wave of layoffs after Reagan was elected (remember?). I sure wish someone would have bailed me out and given me a new start debt free. I don't happen to feel sorry for any of these people, including the ones who bought houses they knew they couldn't afford. Have you seen reports about $30,000 a year men and women who are crying because they're losing their $400,000 house? Who cares?

Alf wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:27 AM:Well, "Confused voter" at 2:05AM,
be confused no more.
Earlier this year the California Supreme Court made a decision in favor of a case that challenged not allowing "gays" to marry, the challenge was based on the "equal protection" clause of the California Constitution that says that there can be no discrimination based on gender or "sexual orientation".
Up until then, "gays" could have a "civil union", BUT it did not convey all the same rights and responsibilities of "marriage".
Some religious types and homophobes were so offended by this decision that they put up Prop. 8 to Amend the California Constitution to LIMIT the word and status of "marriage" to be -
ONLY between a man and a woman.
Marriage confers such things as medical kinship rights, ability to be a citizen through marriage and tax status which are NOT available through "civil unions".
A YES vote on Prop. 8 will put homosexuals back into a second-class, separate and NOT equal status.
A NO vote on prop. 8 will keep homosexuals as EQUAL status citizens and will not harm the legality or status of anyone else's marriage in the slightest (unless the hubby and wifey are on different sides of this issue).
Oh, yes, if Prop. 8 fails, many religious and other bigots will be highly offended while the rest of us folks won't be.
I hope that answers your question.
Regards, Alf

Focal Point wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:27 AM:John[-] wrote on Sep 22, 2008 1:16 AM: Same way Bush is going to pay for the American Poverty. He will pay with inflated US dollars earned by your grandchildren. Kinda like Bush and the Iraqi War.

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:29 AM:Remember last weeks polls before the Banking crisis?????

Well looky here....

What a switch Sept. 14th-
McCain 46%
Obama 45%

Sept 21
Obama 49%
McCain 44%

What a change when the country discovers the real truth about Palin and McCain opens his mouth and talks about what he knows about the economy.
Thanks John for speaking.

Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:35 AM:>>>The Bush tax cut benefited .5 percent of the richest Americans>>
Would you please show us how middle class taxes were increased?? As far as the rich, Bush rolled back less that half of Clintons 40% increase in taxes, which reslulted in the highest receipts to the Federal govt in history. But, you're good at parroting the DNC talking points 'Polly wanna cracker"

But Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:36 AM:The last 8 years were not under the policies of Stalin, Lenin, Castro, and Chavez, were they?
Nope.
The last 8 years were under the policies of Bush/Cheney, the wizards of Wall Street, the releasres from regulation, the masters of manipulation, the mongerers of meddling, the wanters of war.
Another who shares most of those stirling traits is John McCain, he who voted in sync with Bush 90 percent of the time.
Want more of the same? Vote McShame!

Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:37 AM:>>>A Russian navy squadron set off for Venezuela Monday,>>> Will Pulse swim out to greet them, or will the Somalie pirates sink them first

Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:42 AM:>>A NO vote on prop. 8 will keep homosexuals as EQUAL status citizens and will not harm the legality or status of anyone else's marriage in the slightest>>> It will also encourage them in all-out indoctrination of the kiddies from K-8, more lawsuits against the boy scouts,, etc, etc, & more bills like SB777.
And, you thought all they wanted was gay marriage. LOL

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:43 AM:Of course its the same old thing. Democrats are trying to help the people and Republicans only want to help the corporations. What else is new. When Democrats are trying to limit the salaries of higher ups in the banking industry because they took 39-billion dollars in bonuses in 2007 the Republicans are fighting it. The American people have taken on the banking industries failures and their debt. We take all the risk and of course the way this should work is the same as in bankruptcy, you can't still spend like crazy, especially since Congress and this ignorant President are gambling with our money. Corporations need to pay us back every extra cent, no profits until we are paid back and no bonuses. They got us in this mess by foolishly taking loans that would never be paid back hoping to sell the properties for a high profit once foreclosed on in a higher market.

Americans need to come first before the businesses of the world. Our rights and tax money needs to be protected and Republicans will not do that. Steal from our tax coffers to bailout rich corporations who benefit only the richest investors, leaving the everyday people who live on Main Street in the lurch.

Conservatives are why our nation is in peril and they should be ousted from every position.

Conservo posters on here want to blame Democrats, using the stupidity of the conservative talk and hate sites. Look at the scoreboard!!! Republicans are running the administration not Democrats. When a Democrat was President in the last twenty years did we have any crisis like this...OF COURSE NOT!!

Apollo wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:51 AM:Re: Anne Jacinto, Heidi Willes and Jennifer Jones (letters)
Oh boy, here we go again. People who can't deal with the actual issue of non-discrimination in marriage based on gender, so they have to change the subject to something else.
For the umpteenth time, the California Supreme Court in the consolidation of In re Marriage Cases [(S147999) 5-15-08], did not address issues of gender, consanguinity or any matter that would be up to the legislature to define. They merely did their judicial job of applying the Constitution, and correctly declaring that the provisions of an initiative statute requiring the selection of marital partners based on gender were clearly in violation of the multiple mandates in the state Constitution that prohibit any discrimination based on gender.
Since there is no equivalent Constitutional mandate regarding numbers or family relationships, yes, Anne, this is about gender discrimination and nothing more.
And no, Heidi, no rights for "the rest of us" would be infringed in Prop 8 fails. Churches would not be able to be sued. As Jennifer Jones correctly notes, the separation of church and state, and the distinction between the religious (sacramental) aspects of marriage from the legal, secular aspects, do prohibit such lawsuits. Even the Civil Rights act of 1964 and subsequent amending revisions did not apply to churches, as Mormons continued to discriminate against blacks for 14 more years until voluntarily changing their policies, and churches are not forbidden from discriminating in hiring employees based on religion.
This is purely a very dishonest smokescreen.

The real threat of polygamy or underage marriage comes, as 3D has so often reminded us, from those who seek to literally return us to the definitions of marriage that are in the Bible.

Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 7:55 AM:>>>A Russian navy squadron set off for Venezuela Monday..We played in their back yard. So, the Russians will begin to play in our back yard>>>
I'm glad to see the liberals take such glee in dangerous threats. It so defines their character. I wonder if the same liberals will bash the Russians with the same venomous hate they bashed America for helping Georgia

OBAMACAN wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:01 AM:How many times are the editors of the North County Times, who have obviously failed in their charge of keeping our community informed, going to allow the repeated lies about Obama such as the title of Phil Epstein's letter?
Moreover, since it is the editors who actually decide the titles (though they sometimes accept suggestions from writers if the suggestion accurately reflects the content of the letter), is the editor complicit in this deceit by including an inaccurate statement that does not even appear in the body of the letter?
Oh well, at least they (the dishonest writer and the editor with complicit assent) have allowed Obama credit two more days than the 143-mantra being bandied about the airwaves of Republican slimeball dishonest hate radio.
FACT: Obama was sworn in January 4, 2005. A Senator is a Senator 24/7/365. As of today, September 22, Obama has held that position exactly 1,357 days. So the dishonest writer (and the editor with complicit assent) have understated the correct figure by a factor of almost 10x.
Moreover, during the period of Obama's tenure, he has a markedly better record than McShame in both attendance and voting.
Documentation? How about the senate committee's official government website:
http://energy.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=f737e0bd-45fa-43c5-9aac-af873d9fcc0e&Month=5&Year=2008&Party=0

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:02 AM:Republicans don't want rules on corporations. They want to try and tell you it takes too much government to do that, but the real truth is they want corporations to make limitless profits, no matter what the ethics are to get them.

We have seen it now in the banking industries. If there are no rules, corporations will lie, cheat and steal. Enron and Worldcom a few years before, the same pattern that no rules allow and who pays....the middle of the road guy.

The same logic is in place when sides are drawn on global warming. Do you think one poster on here knows a lick about that science? No one. Yet they will fight you tooth and nail. Why? Because the energy companies will have rules and regulations set down to combat the man made effects of global warming and are the ones pushing the politicans they financially back to stand against. So Republicans, all of them want to deny that man made global warming exists as Exxon slips them more campaign funds. Even the far right radical Christian evangelicals have sold out taking care of God's earth. Would you not think at least these people, at the risk of man made global warming being true would be staging protests?? No...they have sold out to conservative politicans for the abortion and gay rights themes to be pushed instead.

For conservatives its all about the big dollar corporations and the financial support they give them.

Can you picture posters like Ron, Reardon, sdraoul or Chuck knowing anything about Global warming after reading the incredible bias they parrot from their conservative sites? Logic and reasoning is something they know nothing about.

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:05 AM:Apollo, great post!! The only problem is logic and reasonability to the other side is non-existent.

Chuck wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:08 AM:>>The news is now reporting that masked kidnappers seize foreign tourists in Egypt>> And Hussein wants to surrender and give the Islamists the run of the planet. Let me guess- None of the kidnapped were Muslims

Vista Granny wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:17 AM:Where I live is nice enough, but it's sure not Beverly Hills. Most of the residents are working couples in their 50's and old retired folk like me. Today, while I was walking my dog, I noticed a McCain bumper sticker on a neighbor's car. I cannot understand why anyone would vote against the own best interests. On the other hand, if this is a multi millionaire, why on earth are they living here?

BTW, did you read that Bush and the head of the Treasury Dept, think we should continue to pay the heads of failed companies huge salaries and bonuses? Apparently they feel these crooks will only try to make an honest buck if they are overly compensated. Enough!!!If this were France, the plain folk would take to the streets. But then, they have more freedom than we do.

DD Wiz wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:18 AM:The published letter from Jim Stuart misstates by omission the reality of international energy issues.
There is nothing wrong with allowing Iraq, as a sovereign nation, to establish its own oil contracts. Stuart's letter is purely an admission that this war, diverting resources away from the real war against the real terrorists who invaded us (operating from Afghanistan, now hiding safe and smug and free in Pakistan), had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction, imminent threats, or "liberating" people from a dictator. Saddam is gone. A Democratically elected, supposedly sovereign president now governs the country. If they say they no longer need us and we remain, we are truly the invaders. The demand that they give their oil to us under special sweetheart deals by companies unwilling to bid freely against China and India, shows both contempt for the free market as well as an admission that the real objective of this invasion was to trade the blood of brave American soldiers to feed our addiction to non-renewable FINITE FILTHY FOSSIL FUELS.
The real question Mr. Stuart needs to be asking, that Democrats in Congress are asking to the silence of coverage from corporate-owned conservative "mainstream" media, is: why did Papa Bush 41 rescind the long-standing requirement that oil drilled from leases of federal lands (owned by we the people), be sold first to domestic markets?
Why are we not demanding that all oil produced from such lands go first to our own needs before going to China and India?
Let us address our own sovereignty before running roughshod over the sovereignty of those we supposedly "liberated."
Peace (and sunshine) to all, DD Wiz

gracchus wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:19 AM:your communique of 6:33 a.m. clarifies nothing, ron.

we do not currently live in a hobbesian world in which life is nasty, brutish, and short. your efforts to compare the life of men before the dawn of civilization to the united states in the year 2008 are hardly relevant.

i demonstrated to you yesterday that a very small percentage of the u.s. population controls the majority of the nation's wealth. these individuals can easily afford to pay more taxes to sustain our society.

i am thinking about a sophisticated society with good security against domestic and foreign threats, infrastructure, educational institutions, cultural sites, scientific research centers, and welfare for its weaker members. i would not particularly want to live in the primitive world that you describe, ron.

when you live in a society, you make an inherent contract to support that society. how much good would all that massive wealth that the few in the united states possess do them if they suddenly found themselves thrust into a primitive state of nature?

every worker in this country helps make it good. and every worker deserves a sense of security that he won't become impoverished if misfortune strikes him. and a civilized society will do precisely that for him. i assure you, ron, i would not expect such assistance from your cave dweller.

Ron wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:20 AM:I can see that I struck a nerve with that caveman crack....
eh.. "VOR" @7:24 AM?
Maybe.. hitting just a little too close to home? Hey, whether you a metrosexual caveman spinning yarns and drawing on walls to impress the cave gals, or you 40 years old, living in Mommy & Daddy's basement, trying to "make it" in a band...
Frankly, I dont see the difference.
But, hey.. that's just me.

As to the continuing no-saga of troopergate...
Your darn tooting!

Laws, and union rules were created to protect people like that Alaskan trooper who tazered a 10-year old, beat his ex-wife, threatened her father, and drank while on duty. Yeah, they had better pass some laws to keep this creep on the force, and away from me.
Cause, I'm telling ya....
If it had been me, I'd have laid the guy out.

Short story...
I was around at a time when a 30 year old man, a kindergarten teacher was caught red handed in an Oceanside hotel attepting to "whatever", with what he thought was a 14 year old girl he had picked up on the internet.
AS it just so happened...
She was really a Fox news reporter doing a story about internet predators, met him, called the cops, and they arrested the guy at the hotel.

Do you know what the union did?
They defended the guy's right to be "adiministratively relieved" until they could figuire out whether he was going to get convicted. On paid leave, no less, under union contract rules they had bargined for.

Now... Do you really need anyother prove than being caught at THE hotel?

Even wrong about cavemen wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:20 AM:Poor Ron. He just has to project his paranoid, survival of the fittest idea of the world onto everyone. Until very recently in human history, by all evidence, we lived in extended family groups or small tribes. The way humans survived was via cooperation. A human alone was a dead human. Self-reliance, the independent individual, is a very modern invention and runs quite against our "nature", if we have one. I'm sure the injured and the weak probably did sit out the hunt. But hunting was a minor part of how humans fed themselves. There were many ways to contribute to the life of the group, and therefore to survive as an individual. Maybe Ron thinks this is "Marxist", which is once again an absurd projection of a modern situation onto history and prehistory. Personally, the real lives of Ron's cavemen could teach Ron a lot about what it means to be human.

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:21 AM:If I was a conservative I would demand that John McBush be locked into a hotel room until after November 5th and leave Sarah Palin speak to the typical conservative voter.

She would get raving reviews as she demanded things like:
Bomb Iran.
Kill Muslims.
Kill wild animals chasing them with AK47's.
Create a state religion based on her beliefs.
Ban abortion
Penalize any woman that claims rape in everyway possible.
Ban homosexuals from everywhere possible.
Never talk about the economy.
Stay in Iraq and steal as much oil as possible.
Drill in Alaska, because God told her to.
Ship any scientist who acknowledges global warming to some place cold.
Talk about her guns.
Talk about hating different people.
Teach lessons in how to cheat, steal and discriminate as a politican and claim you didn't.
Force abstinence only and then claim your underage child and the whole family are happy when she gets pregnant because she didn't know any better.

This type of stuff is what conservatives go crazy for, its the very ethics and morality they defend and hold true to heart.

Instead you have McBush trying to explain what he says like today.

"On NBC this morning, host Meredith Vieira noted that former HP CEO Carly Fiorina “is an example of exactly the kind of person you say is at the root of the problem.” McCain replied, “I don’t think so”:

McCAIN: I don’t think so. … Because I think she did a good job as CEO in many respects. I don’t know the details of her compensation package. But she’s one of many advisers that I have.

Q: But she did get a $45 million dollar golden parachute after being fired while 20,000 of her employees were laid off.

McCAIN: I have many of the people, but I do not know the details of what happened.

Now thats typical of conservative ethics and values. Ron---better get him a room.

OBAMACAN wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:29 AM:Ooops, correction needed - in my post at 8:01 a.m. I copied and pasted the wrong Senate website.
The correct one to document the markedly better attendance record of Barack Obama (compared with John Bush McSenile) during Obama's 1,357 days in the Senate should have been:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_110_2.htm

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:31 AM:The conservative ideology continues to die in America.

Here are things that Republicans can never claim again.

We are the party of small government!

Actually, this week simply added to the the end of this claim. Under Bush II, discretionary spending has increased from $640 billion to $1.040 trillion dollars. Also remember that Bush had a Republican controlled congress for 6 of those years. However, Paulson will send a package to Congress which totals $800 billion. The Treasury will create a new agency to buy bad debt.

We Support Free Markets!

The Securities and Exchange Commission has announced a ban on short-selling financial stocks over the next two weeks. Short-selling is essentially betting that a stock's price will go down. The SEC hopes the ban will reduce downward pressure on the market, but some think it will backfire. Wall Streeter Barry Ritholtz tells Madeleine Brand that the SEC action reverses 1,000 years of theory about how free markets should work.
In short, markets are supported when they are going up. But when they are going down, we're going to do everything we can to prevent them from going down.

We Are the Party of Fiscal Responsibility!!

No they aren't. No Republican president has ever balanced a budget. While Republicans have argued that Reagan had to contend with Democrats, Bush II did not for 6 years. Under this scenario where the Republicans controlled all branches of government they never even came close to balancing a budget.

We are the Party of Personal Responsibility!!

No you're not. When companies make really stupid decisions the Federal government bails them out.

Whenever a Republican talking head says they are for any of the above mentioned things they should be questioned to explain how that statement (I'm for free markets) jibes with banning short selling of an entire sector of the market. Whenever a Republican says he is for smaller government, have him explain the nearly doubling of discretionary spending when the Republicans controlled all branches of government.

Simply put, this week demonstrated how hollow and shallow and corrupt many of the conservative values are. They sound great on paper, but aren't put into practice when that result might cause financial harm to another conservative.

Can you imagine wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:36 AM:I just wonder what the pundits of the right, the McCain campaign, and their sheep here would say if Obama claimed he opposed the bridge to nowhere but didn't; if he accepted record earmarks and claimed he was against them because he could've taken even more; if he was under investigation for abuse of power; if he had a pregnant teen daughter; if he got DNC lawyers to try to get him and Michelle our of having to respond to subpoenas; if he avoided the press for weeks; if he said that taxing the wealthiest was something that God told him to endorse. LOL

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:37 AM:No Ron, although we know you want to live in the world of the conservative fundamentalist caveman, the rest of the world has move far beyond. Your guys, senile Grandpa McBush and his brother George are still in the Stone Age in their thinking, neither can use or have learned the computer.

The same holds true when someone talks politics. None of us really care about what happened a decade ago. We care about today, this year, the last couple of years at most because we have an ever changing world to deal with, not one that stagnates as you want.

We need politicans that think that way, that can handle new challenges with new thinking and new ways. Not some old man who has no clue what he said the day before.

So no Ron, I would not be proud of caveman mentality like you are.

Thanks VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:41 AM:For yet another glimpse at John McCain "talking" about issues. Every time the guy opens his mouth, if it hasn't been carefully scripted for him, we see how truly clueless he is. To not even have an answer ready for a question about Fiorino at this moment, which any tool would know was coming, is astounding. McCain is therefore dangerous. Who will really run the country if McCain/Palin win? It's getting obvious that McCain isn't up to it. Palin will still be in class, learning geography 101, politics 201, economics sub-101. Who will be in charge? Why in the name of heaven should we trust them, whoever they are?

Bob wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:45 AM:Regarding VOR's 8:31 AM post, it's hard to imagine conservatives (as in Ron, Chuck and Raoul) will cease with these claims, though it seems likely that fewer and fewer people, over room temperature IQ, will believe them.

She Said wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:46 AM:to VOR @ 8:05: Do you really think there is ever an acceptance from "the other side"? Either side? I have come to the conclusion most bloggers are trying to reinforce their own beliefs to themselves. I guess the singularity of changing the opposing group's mind is possible. However, that occurrence doesn't highly exist in the realm of reality.

Apollo wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:50 AM:Re: Vista Granny (8:17 a.m.)
Love ya, Vista Granny, but to be fair, to criticize social conservatives for "voting against their interests" because of sincere, deeply-held beliefs is no less valid than to criticize Kennedys, Roosevelts, Kerry's or other very wealthy Democrats who vote "against their interests" because of sincere, deeply-held beliefs that it is what is the right thing to do.
The real question that should be asked is, how did very non-religious people such as Reagan, Rove, Cheney, the Bush family and others get away with hijacking religion, and convincing a majority of so-called "Christians" that the party that wants to trample down the poor, the outcasts and "the least of these is the party of Jesus because they knew they could never sell the economic policies that help a very few who are already richest at the expense of the vast majority who are not.
But how did they convince so many people that a message opposite Jesus was Christian?

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:53 AM:So lets look into the mind set of Americans and see after the last week we had who sees the world as it truely is and who is biased by an ideology, not caring about America as a whole but just the ideology.

In a poll done at the end of last week registered voters were asked by the American Research Group these questions.

Do you approve of the way Bush is running the economy?

Democrats- 97% disapprove; 2% approve
Independants- 87% disapprove; 8% approve
Republicans- 48% disapprove; Ron and 46% approve.

Republicans are blinded by hate, prejudice and discrimination. Very, very sad lot of people.

hardtack wrote on Sep 22, 2008 8:58 AM:Gee, I thought I was cynical. Joseph Grant’s best line is his last one: “A win for McCain-Palin might give the Republicans what they deserve.”
Of course, we can take that 2 ways.
I’d say that a win for Obama - Biden might give all of us what we deserve. And you can take that anyway you like.

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:01 AM:To "she said"- no, youre right, but the only person I can speak for as to change is me. I voted for Bush in 2000 thinking he came across as what I assumed this country needed and I listened to the voices around me. I then learned to think for myself, speak up for myself, knowing others also don't know the truth and are bombarded by Fox News, conservative talk radio and even from the people who represent the churches like Dobson and Perkins. There are people searching for the truth, like I did and found it. Not by listening, but by educating myself and then deciding right and wrong.

I see people start to swing now to Obama, not because of anything more then he is stating things I believe as truthfully as he can. At least there are no horrible lies that are repeated day after day even after they are debunked.

So no, Ron is too greedy to change, sdraoul to prejudiced and Reardon too something. But there are many people searching for change and thats who will find it.

Rovian genius wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:11 AM:VOR gives us interesting data about how people of each political bent feel about the Bush years. Yet here is McCain demanding that we stay the course in our Bush foreign and econominc policies, and here is Palin echoing the same beliefs and adding the Bush "gut feeling" that God wants all this, and many of the same people who disapprove of Bush say they will vote for McCain/Palin. Never underestimate the intelligence of the American voter. Rove knows: play the hate card, relentlessly attack the opponent, lie repeatedly and it becomes the truth. That's how you win the White House.

To Confused Voter wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:22 AM:Alf @7:27am and Apollo @7:57am did a good job of responding to your question. I'd like to comment on Anne Jacinto's assertion that "Marriage has been a part of civilization since the beginning, because societies instinctively knew that a committed relationship between a man and a woman was in the best interest of children and, thus, in the best interest of the society." This is grossly misleading. First, marriage has not been around "since the beginning". And how does she know what ancient "societies instinctively knew"? Who is she trying to kid?

Second, marriage has changed dramatically from time to time and place to place - even in Europe and the U.S. since early 19th Century, when it was a financial arrangement between families and not at all a matter of individuals or "love". Arranged marriages are still the rule in many parts of the world.

Yes, marriage was between men and women because that was the only reproductive unit. Having lots of children was important then. Many died before becoming productive members of the family. But technology and social policies like adoption have made the man-woman reproductive unit and having lots of babies unnecessary, even counterproductive (overpopulation). We are now free to love and marry who we wish, raise children or not. It's called evolution.

Her notion of "consciously creating unbalanced families" is absurd. Same-sex couples are fine, "balanced" parents whose children turn out great. And, these families already exist. Prop 8 would simply take away the equal dignity and recognition of their relationship by our secular state. Prop 8 is driven by the continuing desire to impose certain (narrow) religious values on the state.

Reardon wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:38 AM:Even wrong about cavemen: Without getting into an esoteric discussion on individualism v cooperation v socialization, the latest scientific “blended” information (DNA and Fossil) on the history of humans is collected in a readable form in the July issue of Smithsonian Magazine.

It can be Googled easily using “Blended DNA and Fossil Smithsonian” as the search term.

There is so much new technology, and so much new information available that the analysis changes quickly, but this subject is a hobby of mine and this is the best and latest I have found.

Pluto wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:39 AM:The Prop 8 crowd is using incredible scare tactics. Anne Jacinto claims gay marriage might lead to "polygamy, polyandry, incest and maybe some configurations we haven't yet thought of." Heidi Willes claims "the rights of millions of other straight couples will be taken away". But they've had same-sex marriage in Massachusetts since 2004. You'd think they could back up these claims with some facts and examples by now. Also, Ms. Willes prefaced her "sky is falling" list of horribles with this qualifier - "if the term "marriage" is not allowed to signify man and woman". Doesn't it matter that the term marriage still includes a man and woman. I'm a man married to a woman (almost 30 years) and ours is still a marriage, even after same-sex marriages were recognized last June. Anne Jacinto prefaced her list of horribles with this qualifier "If love is the only criterion for marriage . . " But love won't be the only criterion. If so, my wife would probably marry our dog.

Mr. Originality wrote on Sep 22, 2008 9:45 AM:Wow... I don't come in here for months, and when I do, it's the same old blowhards still spewing the same old venom from both sides of the aisle.

With all the hot air in here, it's no wonder global warming is becoming an issue.

Pluto wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:08 AM:China has 53,000 children sick from tainted milk, the latest in a long string of product safety incidents. China's rulers, like our Republican party, allow business to be relatively unregulated. It's the same philosophy which is now costing us $700 billion to bail out Wall Street. Republicans are always against taking our money up front, but they always allow us to be robbed in the end, and it costs a lot more than taxes and regulations would have. Promising lower taxes is pandering to narrow self-interest. We should be insulted when they use this tactic.

Alf wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:08 AM:What was I thinking, "Chuck" at 7:42AM?
"They" want what women and blacks wanted and, in some cases, still want -
absolute equality. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sort of like all those things that you and I and most other people take for granted because you have not not had it and have not had it taken away from you.
Yet.
McGWB/Palin may get away with imposing their ideas on the rest of us.
You want scary, THAT'S scary!
Accepting homosexuals as equals?
I ain't afraid of that.
Regards, Alf.

Karl wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:12 AM:Vista Granny @ 8:17 AM

Granny,
Even though my house abuts a private golf course the make up is about the same. We've got working couples in their 50's, a welfare Mom and her son accross the street and retired old farts (mostly widows who I am the handyman for). We have three Obama (one belongs to one of my golfing buddies) yard signs, two McCain yard signs and 1 Ron Paul (mine) yard sign. I do not begrudge any of them, in fact I respect them all for putting their vote on their lawn.

Before anyone goes off on the private golf course I assure you that it is blue collar. I wouldn't last long at any other kind. My monthly dues are a lot less than I would spend at public courses.

Karl wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:17 AM:Holy crap batman, I agree with VOR on something.

"Here are things that Republicans can never claim again.

We are the party of small government!"

Although I don't think I would use "never".

Karl wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:21 AM:VOR for the umteenth time your generalizations are simply not true. Use "some" or a "percentage" etc.

"Republicans are blinded by hate, prejudice and discrimination. Very, very sad lot of people."

Reardon wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:23 AM:Darrell Cummings letter today is right on.

As J. C Watts found out, the Congressional Black Caucus refused him admittance even though he was a Congressman and Black -- but he is not LIBERAL Black.

The NAACP opposed Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court, even though he was Black, but he was not LIBERAL Black.

And now the feminist group NOW, the National Organization for Women is apoplectic over Sarah Palin, because even though she is CLEARLY a woman, she is not a LIBERAL woman.

If there was truly a Truth in Advertising Law, they would be the Congressional Liberal Black Caucus, the National Association of Liberal Colored People and the National Association of Liberal Women.

Alf wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:27 AM:Well, "Chuck" at 7:55AM,
gone are the days that the U.S. can swagger around doing anything it likes, anywhere it likes -
without repercussions.
The point is that if the U.S. presents a threat to Russia,
guess what?,
Russia can rattle their sabre as well.
AND they have the power to back it up,
while our military is stretched thin over in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
GWB shouldn't "take a knife to a gunfight".
Someone said "A man's gotta know his limitations", if GWB doesn't know them, Russia may, indeed, teach him and us.
Regards, Alf.

Chuck is wrong again wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:28 AM:Chuck, in the depths of his complex mind, hears that there's a kidnapping in Egypt and immediately assumes it's a terrorist act aimed at westerners. Oh, well. Sometimes a bandito is just a bandito. They want ransom, though of course this could be used to fund radical islamic groups. And four of the fifteen kidnapped were Egyptians. See? This is what we need in a complex world: fast, simpleminded thinking and action. If there are unexpected consequences because we made errors, we'll deal with those later (though we will insist they were not errors). Sounds familiar. Should we have a few more years of this approach? Vote McCain/Palin so you can continue feeling your macho as the nation crumbles.

VOR wrote on Sep 22, 2008 10:44 AM:Here is the Conservative bailout plan in short.

Get 700 million to a trillion dollars from the taxpayers or $2000 per person.

No Congressional oversite, no built-in regulations, other than requiring semiannual reports to Congress, granting the Treasury secretary unprecedented power to buy and resell mortgage debt. The people have no say whatsoever.

No "punative damages" according to Dana Perino...meaning no regulations on pay for senior officials who got their companies into this crisis. No corporation accountability or institute safeguards to ensure that this irresponsible lending and borrowing won’t happen again.

Conservatives will announce later today that Tom DeLay and Jack Abramhoff will be hired to give the accounting and Duke Cunningham will watch the money. That last sentence was sarcasm but it follows the same pattern of ethics.

Now, a