The Truth Shall Free Us All wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:09 AM:Murel Fisk:

I feel your pain!

I guess your letter, where you proclaim, "Sarah Palin is the only intelligent, trustworthy candidate," must have been mailed before her own state concluded she misused her power in firing a state employee, or the breaking news that she bilked thousands of dollars from the state budget for travel perks for her kids.

James Ciriello:

James, careful with that "America; love it or leave it, " stuff.

If America changes come November 4th, you're not gonna like it. If you don't like it, but the majority of Americans do, does that mean you should leave?

Max Hagan:

You lament, "Bill Clinton, Democrat, removed the regulations so the banks could make all the sub-prime loans to put the country in the financial crisis it is in today."

Why are letting George Bush, Republican, off the hook? I would expect if Clinton's policies were so off base that Bush would have fixed them in the 8 years he had the job!

John Cusumono:

Let's see if I have this straight.

You say, "John McCain says he'd cut spending evenly across the board." It seems to me in the last debate, those words came out of one side of his mouth, but out the other he was promising funding for new programs including programs for special needs children. So, which is it?

Then, you claim, "He also plans to inject more money into small businesses." Hmmm, how's he gonna do that with a spending freeze?

I guess it just depends which John McCain you like better!

Not Quite wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:01 AM:If it wasn't so horrible it would be funny department.

Muriel Fisk says: "Sarah Palin is the only intelligent, trustworthy candidate. She is the only candidate in years who is honest enough to state that we have to live within our financial means ��“��“ individual and in government."

Palin has now spent $150,000.00 of the RNC money on clothing and makeup for her and her family... the Republicans are livid... just like Joe the Plumber's wife, eh? Don't we all shop at Neiman Marcus?

Perhaps Fisk will come to his senses before Nov 4th, but I doubt it. Palin is the hottest candidate to come down the pike in a long time. Horrible.

Mike the trucker wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:02 AM:I have a brother; Christopher. Before Chris had even turned 19 years old he had totaled two cars and a motorcycle. He lost his right arm during the motorcycle event. He struggled for a couple years after with drugs and alcohol until my father gave Chris a choice; go through a recovery program (at my fathers expense) or leave; I believe it’s called tough love. Chris has been clean and sober for over 25 years now, put himself through college, started his own business, has a family, and makes well over $250k a year.
I know another person; I’ll call him Eric. He’s over 50 years old, hasn’t held a real job in his life, and has been on government assistance all of it. He’s clean and sober at the moment, but after years of treatment that you and I paid for. Eric is very involved in the community now. You’ll see him protesting against Americans who want our borders secured and immigration laws enforced. He hates our military and law enforcement personnel. He’s and old hippy and damned proud of it.
When Obama is elected (Yes he will be. The Republican’s have given their base no choice at all and the rest of the electorate is stupid and indolent) he’ll take money from my brother and give it to Eric. God help us all.

More GOV More GOV wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:28 AM:I say lets all vote democrat. That way we can have the Government run our lives for us. Think about it, free housing, free healthcare, groceries, cars everything free provided by the Gov. Why should we have to work and save and do anything on our own. The Gov will take over all the money and distribute it equally among us all, but wait why would we need money. If the Gov is going to save us and take care of us then lets just give it up to them. Quit fighting it and vote Democrat we will have a utopia just like New Orleans before that evil President Bush sent that hurricane to destroy it. Come on America close your minds and vote Democrat after all they are smarter than all the rest of us. There is no chance at all that they will mess anything up, no dem has ever made a mistake ever just ask them and they are always right arent they. So lets get eveyone on board I am going to my part will you?

Alf wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:35 AM:Subject: Newly Elected President "Testing"
McGWB says, approximately,
'I've been tested my friends, I was sitting in an aircraft on a aircraft carrier awaiting orders during the missile crisis.'
That is not a Presidential test because McGWB was awaiting orders,
HE WAS NOT the one who had to make the decision and then GIVE THE ORDERS.
If neither he nor you can make THAT VERY CRITICAL distinction and if he gets elected,
we're in real serious trouble.
Neither McGWB nor Obama has faced THAT test.
Regards, Alf.

Ron wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:48 AM:I was thinking the exact same thing, Garth Gregory Hansen, but about NObama.

"anything to win"

Playing the race card on Bill Clinton.
Playing the race card on John McCain.
Playing the race card on Gov. Palin.

Lying about staying inside the campaign finance limits.

As to the "terrorist" thing, I guess the moral of that story is:
Don't hang around unrepentant terrorists.

Greencinitan wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:48 AM:Government has to learn to live within its means - I agree. We can't tax our way out of a deficit. I agree. For these reasons, I support Barack Obama. He would not have wasted trillions of dollars fighting in Iraq where the Bush Administration has wasted precious lives (on both sides) and stirred up more hatred toward the US - the war has NOT made us safer. Bush gave rich corporations and individuals huge tax breaks, reducing the available revenues that could have gone into emergency preparedness, food and drug safety, development of alternative energy to reduce dependence on foreign imports, etc. The government, if run well, serves the people and spends money to make all our lives more productive and more secure. McCain's plans for cutting taxes for rich people and continuing aggressive military actions rather than investing in peace through foreign assistance, education, and research activities, will not make our lives better. The Democrats have a well documented track record of better fiscal responsibility than the Republicans. Check it out, do the math, and vote Obama.

Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:02 AM:PALIN PLAYS WITH ALASKA'S PURSE:
"ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) — Gov. Sarah Palin charged the state for her children to travel with her, including to events where they were not invited, and later amended expense reports to specify that they were on official business."

Wanda wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:07 AM:Garth Gregory Hanson is the latest writer to jump on McCain / Palin for their negative campaign (and unruly behavior of their fans at Caribou Barbies cross burnings). I'm sure they'd prefer to "take the high road" and give inspirational speaches about what they have to offer America by way of solutions to problems and such.

It's just hard to spin more of the same.

Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:29 AM:It’s About Judgment, Stupid: Why would Sarah Palin get a jet to fly 12 hours in order to make speech after her water broke for her last pregnancy? How wise was that decision? After all, Palin the mother of three previous children, would know better.

She Said wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:31 AM:Alf @ 6:35 "Neither McGWB nor Obama has faced THAT test." And let's hope they never have to.

Rush wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:32 AM:Was sure happy to read listener John Cusumano's letter veifying that AM radion reception in Escondido is strong as ever.

Heckuva job regurgitating those talking points, John!

Tune in again today and I'll spoon feed you some more.

Don't even attempt to think for yourself, you're obviously not equiped for it.

Oh Please wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:39 AM:Mike the trucker
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:02 AM:
Great story.......too bad it's fiction.

Backcountry wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:39 AM:Yesterday I asked the question: If Obama's idea of "spreading the wealth around can't be called socialism what can it be called?" This was like throwing chum into a shark tank. About a dozen people attacked me for posing the question. Everyone merely ignored the question by changing the subject. Only one person claimed that spreading the wealth was not socialism or welfare or a handout, going so far as to say it "was not taking from one to give to anyone else." (which is hard to believe). However, not one person could produce a name to describe the notion of spreading the wealth. How foolish of me to suggest it might be a form of subtle extortion by Obama to buy votes.

Having occasionally observed this forum it seems to me that many of the people who spend so much of their valuable time contributing their intellectual talent on this page do so just for the sake of the argument. One of my critics yesterday accused me of ignoring the argument, but why should I argue with someone who ignores my question?

Bob wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:40 AM:Murel Fisk just can't seem to get enough of Caribou Barbie.

Reminds me of Dan Quayle, though perhaps without Dan's intelectual acumen.

She's "spunkier" than Spiro Agnew, I suppose.

Bill One wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:43 AM:I still don't think either canidate is looking out for me.

Vista Granny wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:47 AM:Mike the Plumber tells his story -- but, he forgets that his father helped his brother financially. Maybe poor Eric never had a father to help. The fact that his basket case brother managed to get sober and do well later in life is laudable, but doesn't mean that Eric hasn't tried harder, but failed. Making Obama out as some kind of a bad guy was the whole point of Mike the Plumbers' tale. A tale which is probably made up anyway.

Roger wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:51 AM:William Parks' letter points out the negatives of electing McCain at his age, but overlooks the fact that should THE phone ring at 3:00 AM, McCain will already be up on his way to, or from, the bathroom anyway :)

Mike the trucker wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:52 AM:Is the media still hounding “Joe the Plumber”? When their done, I wonder if they could they could go over to William Ayers house and ask him a few questions. No I didn’t think so!

To James Ciriello wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:56 AM:Thank goodness for Free Speech. You can say what you feel and Rev. Wright can say what feels. It is the way of the world. I'll bet if Barack Obama was in that service he would have questioned the Man of God. Probably not publicly as you are suggesting as the bible is clear about order in the church. God Bless you, James and God Bless America.

Bob wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:58 AM:The perpetual post, today at 6:28 AM, is just an affirmation of Michael Thielk's thesis.

To Mike the Trucker wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:05 AM:I've never heard Obama state he wants to give handouts to people who are free loaders like Eric. In fact, I've heard Obama state just the opposite. Can you provide a reference supporting this claim or did you just make this up? By the way, who reformed welfare in the past 15 years, a Democratic or Republican president? Which candidate worked his way up from nothing and graduated from Harvard at the top of his class, and which was a spoiled brat who graduated at the bottom of his class? Which candidate really appreciates self-responsibility and working one's way up? I have a story for you Mike. Nathan was born into a rich family. Today as an adult he is a millionaire, yet he has never worked a day in his life. Thanks to Bush (McCain) tax schedules Nathan pays almost nothing in federal taxes. Then there is my brother Gary, a policeman who has worked since he was 16 years old. Even working overtime Gary barley is able to support his family, and yet he pays 20% of his earned wages to federal taxes. McCain wants things to stay as they are (for some reason he is impressed by the failures of Bush's economic policies), Obama wants Nathan to pay his fair share, and Gary his. Obama doesn't want to give my brother Nathan's money (as you suggest). Obama wants my brother to pay a little less of his wages (18% instead of 20%) in federal taxes, and Nathan to pay a little more (or at least something) of his "wages." Perhaps Nathan can get by with 4 of his 5 bathrooms (instead of all 5) having a 60" plasma TV. The Bush administration has ruled using fear, and it appears you have fallen for their slimy tactics.

Garth is so right wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:05 AM:The dirty politics of McCain/Palin are going blow up in their faces. I am disgusted that this woman is allowing herself to be the mouthpiece for these men. She will be the one thrown under bus when their campaign collapses. She is a puppet and has spread some horrible lies and is spreading fear about Barack Obama. I don't think she is cute, smart, or prepared to be the Vice President. She is a bull dog alright and I think it's time she is muzzled. The McCain/Palin campaign is showing how desperate they are by using these tactics.

Karl wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:19 AM:"America Love it or Leave it". Leave that statement in the dark ages.

Karl wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:22 AM:If that's all you've got Rush @ 7:32 AM, nor do you.

Wanda wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:24 AM:The 4:01 AM poster balks at Caribou Barbie's wardrobe expenditures. Just another reason to support Wanda's dress code for candidates:

All candidates must appear in public in jump suits, just like NASCAR drivers, with patches from all of their "sponsors".

To Sarah Oftedal wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:29 AM:Not everyone believes in "god" or your god for that matter. Keep your god to yourself.

Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:30 AM:McCain being tested: Wonder what Palin would do? She would look America right in the eye and push the go button for the nukes. You betcha!

sdraoul wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:36 AM:When 25 year old John McCain sat in his fighter bomber on the Enterprise waiting for his order to fly to Cuba, the world was in crisis. He was a forward instrument of America's -- John Kennedy's -- foreign policy.

At the same age, the most serious crisis Barack Obama faced was running out of staples while covering telephone poles with flyers.

Apollo wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:37 AM:Re: Sarah Oftedal and David Bouck (letters)
Sarah Oftedal is so right! Marriage does not need to be redefined.
The definition of marriage in California is currently settled law.
Vote NO on Prop 8 and its attempt to REDEFINE MARRIAGE back to an earlier, segregated era in our history.

And David Bouck continues to rail against "unintended consequences" that will harm children. What possible negative consequences to anyone could there be for allowing couples to marry instead of forcing them into promiscuous lifestyles?

Alf wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:41 AM:On a sad note, I went to call the Cask'n'Cleaver in Fallbrook last night to see when they open on Wednesday. Well, there is no more Cask'n'Cleaver in Fallbrook! None in San Diego County!
No more tempura-battered, deep-fried avocado on the way home from Pala,
none in the county!
WAH!!
Regards, Alf.

Spreading too wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:42 AM:How is Obama's 'wealth' spreading any different than Bush's $700B spreading? Is that any less socialistic? How much did I have to say about whether I wanted that to happen?

Presidential History wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:48 AM:Max Hagan's letter recounting the history of Democratic presidencies does what Republicans are so famous for doing: he stops short of telling you the "rest of the story."
World War I and II - WON those wars in far less time than the Republican quagmire in a pathetic, leaderless desert backwater (or backsand) in the Middle East.
And won them with the development of the "can do" Manhattan Project" developing and implementing stunning new technologies in record time.
Vietnam War? Started by Republican Eisenhower and lost by Republicans Nixon/Ford.
He rails off the names of Kennedy, Johnson and Carter.
Kennedy/Johnson lowered Eisenhower's tax rates to optimal levels, and again challenged America's "can do" spirit to put a man on the moon before the end of the decade, and then achieved it.
Johnson does lose points for wrongly escalating the Vietnam War, which many Democrats opposed.
He complains about interest and inflation under Carter, but as Wiz keeps reminding us, that was done by a Republican Federal Reserve Chair, and the Fed Chair installed by Carter brought inflation/interest rates under control.
And in just listing the names of Johnson and Clinton, he fails to mention that these were the last two presidencies to finish their final years with budget SURPLUSES.
As for Clinton removing regulations, ha! That was the Republican controlled Presidency/Congress in charge for most of the last 8 years.
And Hagan's historical lack of completeness completely overlooks inconvenient little truths like Democratic successes in establishing Social Security, Children's Health Initiative Program, Medicare/Medicaid, the Marshall Plan, the Peace Corps, Americorps, Civil Rights (with crossover Republicans), Women's Rights, Disabled Rights, and consistently higher levels of general prosperity.

Roger wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:48 AM:Actually, Vista Granny at 7:47 AM, the laughably transparent fiction you responded to was posted under the pseudonym "Mike the Trucker".

Peskime wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:50 AM:Make Up and Dress Up for Palin:
Sarah Palin was given a whopping $150,000 to spend on clothes and makeup at Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus, which she also lavished on her 5 month old son and her husband, Todd.

How Marie Antoinette. Let them eat cake,!

Bob wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:57 AM:Wanda, at 8:24 AM, is on to something. The Nomex material would add an additional safety factor at Caribou Barbies cross burnings, which oftenget out of hand.

Republican Socialist wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:59 AM:To answer the question from Backcountry at 7:39 a.m.
What do I call Obama's plan to share the wealth?
I call it what it is - a tax break for the middle class WORKING PEOPLE that power our economy, instead of more years of corporate welfare and special LOWER TAXES for the rich, who pay a much lower tax on investment income. The Republican way obviously has not worked. Time for a change.

And while we're answering questions, your turn:
What do YOU call it when a Republican president implements a government takeover of private corporations?
Hmmm. People's communal ownership of the "means of production."
Where have I heard that before?
Oh yeah, Karl Marx!

Alf wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:00 AM:Well, "Bill One" at 7:43AM,
you got that one right!
Regards, Alf.

Wanda wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:01 AM:Karl, at 8:19 AM, is right. "America Love It Or Leave It" is so 1960's. Get with it!

It's now: "You're either With Us Or You're With The Terrorists"!

Bill One wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:06 AM:To Alf, the one in Corona is closed too.

Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:07 AM:Yesterday Alf was whining because somebody stole his Duke Cunningham yard sign. Today (8:41 AM) he's whining about no more deep-fried avacado.

Mike the trucker wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:07 AM:To Mike the Trucker
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:05 AM:
You go right ahead and believe all that Obama propaganda if it’ll make you feel better. Obama is a died in the wool socialist with strong ties and allegiances to Marxists, racists, and communists. And thanks for the fable, mine is a true story.....right Eric!

Mike the trucker wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:10 AM:Thanks Rog.......Granny's not very good with details. Say hello to Eric for me.

Oh Bradda wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:10 AM:sdraoul[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:36 AM:
Who ya kidin? McCain was a squid pilot in a heavily armed aircraft getting ready to take on Cuba. Now tell me what kind of fighter aircraft and anti craft guns or even missiles did Cuba have in defense? Now you invoke the name of John F. Kennedy to support McCain. Raoul, you bash Kennedy all the time. You being a hypocrite? Any you call it being tested? LOL.

Reardon wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:10 AM:Mike the Trucker and Backcountry:

Attacks on Obama as being a socialist are overreaching, and inherently wrong-headed because they give the Obamamaniacs the opportunity to deny it by pointing out socialisms’ownership of the means of production.

More careful wording is necessary: Obama favors income redistribution, which is one of the socialist arguments, but it is not socialism.

Yes, it is class warfare.

Yes, it is punishing success.

Yes, it is ‘taking from those who have too much and giving to those who have too little” – sort of a paraphrase of many who oppose the Jeffersonian doctrine: “I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”

We have an entire nation with 'arrested development" -- like all children they grow up in familial socialism where "Daddy and Mommy" (at least in theory)went out to the money tree and fulfilled all their wishes. FOR FREE!

Hold onto your wallets! Signs are not all they intend to steal!

Bill One wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:11 AM:To Republican Socialist, just remember, GWB could not have done that takeover without the approval of the democrats too, so they were all in it. LIke I said in an earlier post, I don't think anyone is representing me.

Ron wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:16 AM:Now, I'm gonna splain this as simply as I can, so that even...
"To Mike the Trucker" @8:05 AM can understand it. OK?
Head's up, it's education time!
So Pay Attention!

When you subsidize something, you get mediocrity. At worst, you get bad economic behavior. It's a universal principal.
People only do better when incentives are there to drive them to do better. For themselves, for their families, for society.
If you subsidize them, if you meet every what, every need, they get comfortable, and do not progress.
We've seen this with welfare. What were the incentives? Have more kid's so my check would be larger.
This is a hard lesson I know for liberals, but if you take away the struggle, people will rest, and not do better, and not get better.
They will remain where they are, and be comfortable.
The simple answer is you gain when your in pain, and not the reverse.

Alf wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:16 AM:Well, "Fred" at 9:07AM,
one must have the proper priorities!
It was a AuH20 sign, get it right.
Regards, Alf.

Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:27 AM:Agencies Counted Big Firms As Small
SBA Says It Will Correct Data on Federal Contracts
By Carol D. Leonnig, Page A01
U.S. government agencies made at least $5 billion in mistakes in their recent reports of contracts awarded to small businesses, with many claiming credit for awards to companies that long ago outgrew the designation or never qualified in the first place, a Washington Post analysis shows.

Karl wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:28 AM:Wanda @ 8:24 AM:

That's a wonderfull idea!

Surfer wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:28 AM:Fred[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:07 AM: Dude, Alf is the only one with serious subjects today.See ya!

Zeus wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:32 AM:To Ron: What have Republicans done the past 8 years to change our welfare state? Nothing, besides double our deficit to 10 trillion dollars. McCain will do no more about this than Obama. McCain has been in the senate for nearly 30 years and he has done nothing to change this, even when he was younger and fresher than he is today. Are we supposed to believe he is going to change this if elected? Of course not. Obama is a perfect example for all about what can happen when you force yourself to rise from nothing to something, through hard work and determination. How about leaders who lead by example, not cheap talk.

Karl wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:33 AM:What is AuH2O Alf? Excuse my ignorance, remember the last brain cell.

Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:34 AM:. The Wall Street Journal leads its world-wide newsbox with a new poll that gives Barack Obama a 10-point lead over John McCain. Despite McCain's efforts to make taxes a central part of the campaign, Obama has a 14-point lead on the issue. Meanwhile, Sarah Palin's popularity continues its downward spiral. Only 38 percent of voters have a positive view of the Alaska governor, and 55 percent say she isn't qualified to be president. -David Paloti SLATE.

Bruce wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:39 AM:Bush Trying to Side Step Congress Again.
Proposed Iraqi/USA SOFA Agreement:
"President Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki have reached an agreement governing American military forces in Iraq. But under the Iraqi Constitution, parliament has to approve the deal, and major political parties are already demanding changes. With the threat of an Iraqi parliamentary veto monopolizing the headlines, it is easy to forget that Bush is proposing to shut Congress entirely out of the process. He is claiming the unilateral right to commit the country to his agreement."

Bob wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:39 AM:Michael Thielk's letter pretty much verifies what we expected all along: McCain / Palin campaign is doing well in trailer parks accross the bible belt.

Karl wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:43 AM:G. Lance Johanssen and Murel Fisk are both right. The financial mess has the DNA of both Republicans and Democrats all over it.

I can't believe that some of those responsible are still making laws and overseeing them. I say bring in the FBI and let the prison terms begin. The sooner the better obviously.

jvc wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:43 AM:Speaking of spreading the wealth, will we have to rewrite the laws of welfare reform and bankruptcy now that we have bailed out Wall Street? I take umbrage with a society that requires a single mother to take two jobs on minimum wage
because of welfare reform while financial market executives get to go back to their million dollar jobs!

Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:45 AM:Well, Ron at 9:16 AM, you certainly beat the snot out of that straw man, and with much fewer words than you usually waste.

Esco Rick wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:00 AM:I'm voting Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

I'm voting Democrat because freedom of speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.

I'm voting Democrat because when we pull out of Iraq I trust that the bad guys will stop what they're doing because they now think we're good people.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday CAN tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius.

I'm voting Democrat because I want to keep my borders wide open because there is too much work here that Americans are unwilling or unable to do.

I'm voting Democrat because our taxes are not even close to being high enough. I think about 65% income tax would be fair.

I'm voting Democrat because I think every person is entitled to FREE education, FREE insurance, FREE food, FREE housing, FREE medical and any other things that I have worked for all my life.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as THEY see fit.

I'm voting Democrat because I believe we the people are not smart enough to make decisions for ourselves and should have government guidance and protection in everything we do.

I'm voting Democrat because I do not want anything to do with firearms and believe only the military should be in possesion of such powerful items and I would prefer that even the military be forced to look at less than leathal weapons for offensive and defensive use.

I'm voting Democrat because I love the fact that I can now marry whatever I want. I've decided to marry my lesbian sister once she has that sex change.

OMG wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:01 AM:Backcountry [-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:39 AM:

Dear Backcountry, here is an excerpt from my post yesterday that illustrated why our current tax system is actually "socialism for the wealthy" that you have ignored.

"From TimesOnline 6/2007: "Mr (Warren)Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent."

This descriptive quotation illustrates the true interpretation of Obama's comment.... the real direction of "Wealth Redistribution" that has been going on since Ronald Reagan, from the middle class to the wealthy."

Now here is my later post that you confirmed true by your post today. Ignoring alternative viewpoints and repeating the same talking point again is a tried and true Republican tactic.

"Backcountry [-] wrote on Oct 21, 2008 1:23 PM:
Some original thought would be refreshing, try it sometime instead of ignoring comments that counter your regurgitated nonsense, and then simply making the same lame comment over again. It is transparent and makes you out to be the Republican tool you really are."

We can only hope that the Independent voters that will decide this race have the mental capacity to see through this false arguement because I believe the weaker minded have already been polarized by the Republican divide and conquer tactics.

OMG wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:04 AM:Ealier post form yesterdays letter because I can't let this one go:

Backcountry [-] wrote on Oct 21, 2008 3:02 PM:
Biden's comment: It was not a gaff, it was an insightfull comment by an extremely experienced political leader in US foreign policy and was a refreshingly honest asssessment of our world today, even if it was not politically expedient.

On the other hand we have Palin winking at us while telling us that she can see Russia from her front porch and will be running things at Senate as VP (which is not true), while McCain and Fox News are still blathering about Ayers, a reformed/washed up domestic terrorist.

Golly Backcountry, I think I know who I want running the show, and it isn't this Republican clown show.

Pain wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:19 AM:Ron[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:16 AM: That means a whole lot of progress must have been achieved as there has been a whole lot of pain for the last eight years.

Attention comrades wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:24 AM:The end of the United States as we have always known and loved it is near. I am afraid for us all. Start practicing your lockstep. They will be teaching it in our schools. All hail comrade Obama.
Its terribly frightening. Its just so sad.

Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:49 AM:While I enjoyed Mike the trucker's "true" story (5:02 AM) as much as the rest of you, I was struck by "...the rest of the electorate is stupid and indolent..".

Is that you, sdraoul?

Bob wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:57 AM:Yea, Roger, at 7:51 AM, but then again, when THE phone rings at 3:00 AM, it'll probably go to the answering machine playing:

BOMB, BOMB, BOMB
BOMB, BOMB IRAN

Joe Six Pack wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:10 AM:What's up with Mike the trucker's:

"the rest of the electorate is stupid and indolent"

There's nothing worse than being put down by an elitist trucker :)

tjefferson wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:10 AM:Jon Stewart on the Daily show showed a video clip with the following dialogue:

Audience Member: "Why is it that someone like my father who goes to school for 13 years gets penalized in a huge tax bracket because he's a doctor.

McCain: "I think it's to some degree because we feel obviously that wealthy people can afford more."

Audience Member: "Are we getting closer and closer to, like, socialism?"

McCain: "Here's what I really believe: That when you reach a certain level of comfort, there's nothing wrong with paying somewhat more."

Stewart remarked: That, of course, is the late socialist leader John McCain. I believe he passed away during the Republican primaries. He will be missed."

Vote John McCain! He was for socialism before he was against it.

Vista Granny wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:16 AM:Well, Trucker whoever, I'm fine with details, just got you mixed up with Joe the Plumber -- and, btw, Roger -- I did say I doubted the story was true. Maybe I should change my moniker -- something like Ms. Sex, or Short, Curvy and Gorgeous. Trouble with Granny is that People tend to think you need a cane and smoke a corn cob pipe. Hardly!!

Reardon wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:17 AM:I would be interested in surveying this Blog to see if anyone supports the "Fairness Doctrine."

Milton Friedman wrote: "'Fair' is in the eye of the beholder; free is the verdict of the market. (The word 'free' is used three times in the Declaration of Independence and once in the First Amendment to the Constitution, along with 'freedom.' The word 'fair' is not used in either of our founding documents.)"

DD Wiz wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:17 AM:Class Warfare
The post from "Bill One" (9:11am) notes that "GWB could not have done that takeover without the approval of the democrats."
It was the Republican policies of extreme deregulation, corporate welfare, class warfare against middle class working people, and special sweetheart military deals for cronies that caused the economic meltdown that made extreme measures necessary.
We are saved only because the Democrats had enough numbers to force changes to protect homeowners, borrowers and everyday working people, and to deny Treasury Secretary his unchecked demand for unprecedent powers with no oversight. The rescue bill that actually passed by Democrats was very, very different than the tyrannical total takeover GWB and the Republicans first proposed.
The Democrats inherited economic collapse from Republican Hoover in 1933 and used termporary extreme measures to save regulated entrepreneurial capitalism.
The Democrats will inherit economic collapse from Republican Bush again in 2009 and will use temporary extreme measures to get us back to regulated entrepreneurial capitalism.

And the post from "Reardon" (9:10am) represents, yet again, a 100% reversal from reality.
When a few elitists take disproportionate shares of the wealth produced by all members of the productive team, that is class warfare against the middle class.
When UNEARNED capital gains investment income is taxed a fraction of what working people earn "by the sweat of their brows" -- on earnings that are disproportionately low in comparison to their actual productivity in creating wealth -- that is class warfare against the middle class.
It has never worked before.
It isn't working now.
Time for real economic recovery for broad-based prosperity for all.
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:18 AM:Regarding the 8:50 AM post, we're still waiting for the cost figures on "Joe the Plumber". Enquiring minds need to know!

hardtack wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:48 AM:Until I read William Parks letter today, I thought the only compelling reason to vote for John McCain was Barack Obama. However, the thought of someone in the White House who is too old and tired to get anything accomplished does have a certain appeal.

Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:49 AM:Plane Crashes: John McCain crashed five planes during this Navy career. Now, thats being tested.

Apollo wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:51 AM:Re: David Bouck (letter)
Bouck's letter could have been written in the 1960's and, just substituting same-sex for African American, could have been written to defend the long-standing traditions of racial prejudice.
As for the decline of society, what on earth is he talking about?
I see a society that, in my lifetime, has expanded civil rights, women's rights, encouragement for the poor, disabled and the "least of these" in our society.
I see a society that is making progress, though we still have a long way to go.

gracchus wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:55 AM:in your communique of 9:16 a.m., ron, you wrote:

"When you subsidize something, you get mediocrity. At worst, you get bad economic behavior."

historically, ron, governments have subsidized fledgeling businesses to help jump start them. this is one reason why states will impose tariffs on certain foreign products. temporary subsidization of businesses is a perfectly rational state policy. even tax policies will benefit certain types of businesses which is a form of subsidation.

but i have a question concerning bad economic behavior. why are you forever writing about welfare abuse of economically disadvantaged people? why do you never mention corporate welfare? why don't you criticize farm subsidies, while you write about the apocryphal welfare families living large on your dime?

on another aspect of your communique, you write:

"...it's education time! So pay attention!"

How can you possibly construe your opinions worthy of imparting education?
you have frequently expressed patently false statementson this site. and when you have been called on them, i have never seen any effort from you to explain them or acknowledge that they were false.

i think that educators endeavor to teach the truth. and when they are wrong, they are willing to admit it. you are no educator, ron.

hardtack wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:57 AM:“The Truth Shall Free Us All” makes some good observations for a person up @ 1:09 AM.

S/he asks John Cusumono how John McCain plans “to inject more money into small businesses” and cut spending at the same time. The answer is simple – but perhaps no more understood by McCain than it is by Obama: just let small businesses keep more of their own money instead of sending to the IRS.

Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:59 AM:McCain Wrath and Temperment:
"Back in Washington, families of POW_MIAs said they have seen McCain's wrath repeatedly. Some families charged that McCain hadn't been aggressive enough about pursuing their lost relatives and has been reluctant to release relevant documents. McCain himself was a prisoner of war for five-and-a-half years during the Vietnam War." And why was McCain alwasys inhibiting the search for the MIA POWS?

Very Interesting wrote on Oct 22, 2008 12:05 PM:AGHDAD (AFP) – Iraq warned on Wednesday it would not be bullied into signing a security pact with the United States despite US leaders warning of potentially dire consequences if it failed to approve the deal.

Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 12:33 PM:Palin and Rebels: "Todd Palin, a former member of the Alaska Independence Party, might well have seen America unlike his wife did -- that is, an America that one can secede from. He was comfortable belonging to and being associated with a political party whose founder seemed to delight in denouncing the principles that hold our union together."

Cool Info Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 12:37 PM:Think About It
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:49 AM:Plane Crashes: John McCain crashed five planes during this Navy career. Now, thats being tested.

That's pretty Cool information Think About It, I did not know that. McCain sounds like a survivor to me, He's got my vote.

NO on 8 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 12:39 PM:NO on 8.

Religious wars have killed more people than any other wars.

Those who teach & preach hate, anger, lies, fear, etc. are those who are religious and want to be Powerful.

They do not want the population to think and learn. They want the population to be dumb and believe untruths.

True religious people believe and practice "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" and understand that other folks have different points of views.

Monogamous marriage:

Civil unions do not offer the same legal benefits and protections as marriage.

Would you be happy if the government decided whom you should love and marry.

Marriage licenses are civil contracts issued by the government and not by the local churches.

America means
Constitution is our law.
Same civil rights for every one.
Majority protects the minority.

Vote NO on 8

Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 12:48 PM:Sorry, Surfer (9:28 AM), I didn't mean to make light of Alf's deep-fried avacado trauma :)

OMG wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:10 PM:There is and never will be the chance of Socialism taking over this country. The only Socialist running for the presidency is Brian Moore (Socialist Party)and he likely won't win.

Those with the ambition of power and control use words like "Socialism" as a scare tactic to influence voters. Besides, if they were really worried about Socialism they would be attacking Moore, not Obama.

Those that use these tactics to create wedge issues will then ignore and dismiss rebuttals and continue the cry over and over.

This is very old tactic used to create a wedge issue and is repeated as often as possible until the uninformed will begin to believe it actually is an issue. The fact is that this tactic has worked effectively for a long time.

It is important that we all be informed readers and not succumb to this type of misdirection and to focus on the real issues that face each of us and our nation.
Don't let those that would use scare tactics to create divisiveness and confusion so they can keep power influence what you think.

Take the time to study history and current events that impact your lives and vote according to your convictions, this country will be better for it.

Party A wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:10 PM:Resubmission

Sarah Oftedal's letter is not up to date when she refers to Party A or Party B on the marriage license.
Due to complaints, the state has mandated that the marriage license form be changed.
It now has on the first line three boxes: Party A, Groom, Bride.
On the second line there are three more boxes: Party B, Groom, Bride.
People can now select for themselves the designation they prefer.
I am supremely confident this will make everyone completely happy.

Crashing Planes wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:18 PM:Excellent point, "Think About It" at 11:49 a.m.
Crashing FIVE, count 'em, FIVE planes is definitely being "tested" and FAILING the test.
You have to be pretty reckless to crash FIVE times!

And as for being a POW or even a war hero, it has its points of honor, but there were thousands of POW's and war heroes and, while honorable, does not itself qualify one to be president, or we would have had an even more crowded primary race.
Anyone remember Duke "war hero" Cunningham?

Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:19 PM:Cool Info Think About It: Here I though that you liked his bad temper and rowdy behavior as well as disloyalty to whose first wife that waited for him while he was a guest of the Hanoi Hilton. You need to Think About It again.

Reardon wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:21 PM:No, McCain did not lose five planes -- according to Factcheck.org, he lost two while piloting planes.

"McCain did lose two Navy aircraft while piloting them. One crash was found to be be McCain's fault, the other due to an engine failure of undetermined cause. A third was destroyed on the deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when a missile fired accidentally from another plane hit either the plane next to McCain's or, less likely, his own aircraft, triggering a disastrous fire that killed 134 sailors and nearly killed McCain. A fourth plane was lost when he was shot down over North Vietnam on a bombing mission over Hanoi."

Focal Point wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:25 PM:Esco Rick[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:00 AM: The Democratic Party thanks you. When can we expect your additional generous contribution. Well add it to last months $150.000,000.00 collected last month to help take back the government for the people, the middle class and Main Street.
Get ready. Obama comes. It won't hurt a bit.

Wanda wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:34 PM:Karl, at 9:33 AM, questions Alf's "AuH2O" yard sign. This was left over from Goldwater campaign (it comes from that periodic table thingie that was forever hanging on the walls in chemistry labs).

Somebody actually did steal my recycled 1988 Ron Paul sign.

Reardon wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:45 PM:D writes, in a classic tirade against the rich: " When a few elitists take disproportionate shares of the wealth produced by all members of the productive team, that is class warfare against the middle class.
When UNEARNED capital gains investment income is taxed a fraction of what working people earn "by the sweat of their brows" -- on earnings that are disproportionately low in comparison to their actual productivity in creating wealth -- that is class warfare against the middle class."

Please tell me again about YOUR 'profit sharing plan?"

Bill One wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:49 PM:To DD Wiz, you missed my point. I wasn't defending the Republicans, my point is I don't think either party is looking out for what is good for me (I mean the average citizen). You are right, it has been years and years of mismanagement on the part of our govt. And I don't see either party as the answer. The republicans have made a mess and I don;t think the Democrats will do anything much diffrent. They certainly haven't been able to handle California just as the Rebuplicans haven't handle the Federal side.

Asteroid wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:54 PM:I have a neighbor who’s the poster child of a guilt ridden, self loathing, white liberal. He’s been giddy over Obama since first sight. Of course my neighbor would vote for Mike Tyson over any white candidate. Our only hope is that the polls are being skewed by white people paralyzed by the fear of being called racist and once behind the curtain will vote for Ron Paul or the white liberal McCain over the black Marxist Obama.

Oh Please wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:03 PM:Reardon[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:45 PM:
LOL. Reardon thinks that the working poor have profit sharing. Reardon thinks all the middle class has profit sharing. LOL.

Looking Glass wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:12 PM:The way I see it, 2 possibilities exist-

1]McCain will be elected and we'll see a continuation of Bush policies.

2]Obama will get elected and we will return to Clinton policies.

In my opinion, both policies have contributed to the demise of this country and if there was a strong 3rd party I would vote for it. It's a shame that conservatives and liberals can't put aside their differences and work together as expected by U.S. Taxpayers.

Cool Info Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:17 PM:Think About It
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:19 PM:

First wives club you say Think About It,
Kinda like the poor Mrs. Nelson Mandela (Winnie), who stood along by Nelsons side all the almost 27 years he was imprisoned, only to be divorced by him after he got out.

Ms M wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:19 PM:Asteroid
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:54 PM:...YES - we'll take his vote! Can't you folks come up with something else other than name calling - what about issues - oops! I forgot - McCain said if he has to run on the issues he'd loose.

Karl wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:20 PM:Reardon @ 11:17 AM

Absolutely, unequivocally, without a freakin' doubt.NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO0

Am I clear enough?

gracchus wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:25 PM:asteroid, at 1:54 p.m. you expressed your disdain for "black Marxist Obama" and your esteem for Ron Paul.

i can point out to you where ron paul laid primary responsibility for th american civil war at the feet of abraham lincoln. (MEET THE PRESS, december 2007.)

can you point out any documentation which indicates that obama is a marxist?

not racist wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:37 PM:If you are racist because you don't want to vote for Obama, is it because of the black half of him, or the white half of him? Which part makes you racist? The race card is a weak argument. They act as if he were Kunta Kinte from Roots.

By Dawns Early Light wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:38 PM:Asteriud: Mike, does he help you raise old glory every day at dawn?

Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:43 PM:Cool Info Think About It: Think about it again. Mrs Madella was a political leader in her own right. She was not waiting for Madella to be released. McCain's first wife was loyal and waited for his release to later face divorcement after he disfigurement in an auto accident. It is beyond me how you came up with that comparison.

Obama is a liar wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:45 PM:He said he would use public funds. He lied. He decided not to. How do you know he's not lying about his other promises? Nobama. Mc.Cain/Palin 2008.

Asteroid wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:45 PM:gracchus
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:25 PM:
I don’t usually respond to liberals, but I’ll make an exception in your case. Abraham Lincoln was pretty much responsible for the commencement of the inevitable American Civil War. He was also responsible for seeing it thru and the abolition of slavery despite the ardent efforts to the contrary of contemporary democrats known as “copperheads”. What’s your point?

Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:48 PM:gracchus, at 1:54 PM, requests proof that Obama is a Marxist.

Obama is known to pal around with Groucho Marx and John Lennon.

Vote Yes on 8 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:50 PM:its not discrimination. It simply states what most Americans, and more importantly, Jesus Christ, says. Man belongs with woman. It would be discrimination if the proposition took away rights of gays to have a job, housing, etc. It does not say that. Yes on 8. Stop the leftist brainwashing and redefing of marriage.

Profit Sharing wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:50 PM:Hey, Reardon at 1:45 p.m.
I frankly don't give a damn about your personal grudge match with DD.
But DD made a point about those who are richest paying the lowest taxes and all you did was ridicule it and try to turn it into something personal but you didn't actually respond to the point.
Any reason for that?

Wanda wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:52 PM:Karl, at 11:17 AM, continues to flip flop on the "Fairness Doctrine".

Looking Glass wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:52 PM:I'm with Karl on this one - There is no way in Hades that I would support the Fairness Doctrine!

Yadda Yadda wrote on Oct 22, 2008 3:07 PM:Vote Yes on 8[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:50 PM: Lets just make all marriages into pure civil partnership registered with the county and state. Now, you Christians can keep on getting married in your churches by a minister. You can call it marriage within your church. Outside of the church, however, it is just a civil partnership.

Oh Please wrote on Oct 22, 2008 3:12 PM:Obama is a liar[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:45 PM: McCain and his campaign have been lying for months. How can you trust McCain to tell the truth. And, what's this about the Republicans wanting the Democrats to give them money from their donations? All you conservatives now is cry and whine as you see your candidate being rejected by the majority of the American people and the majority of the American voters. Your day is almost done. Please leave with at some modicum of deportment.

hardtack wrote on Oct 22, 2008 3:13 PM:Reardon, re your 1:45 PM: as a point interest, Adam Smith’s labor theory was discredited by Jean Baptiste Say around the turn of the 18th Century. Since that time, only politicians hustling the middle class vote still espouse some convenient version Smith’s labor theory of value. Virtually all non-partisan American and European economists have adopted Say’s insight that the value of a good derived from its utility to the user and not from the labor spent in producing it.
Respectfully,
hardtack

McCain wrote on Oct 22, 2008 3:13 PM:Reply to "Obama is a liar" at 2:45 p.m.

McCain has made genuine policy flip-flops on numerous substantial issues:

Voted against the Bush tax cuts for the richest elites, now says they should be made permanent.

Was against torture, before voting to allow it.

Was against offshore drilling before he was for it.

Sponsored the Kennedy-McCain immigration amnesty plan, now opposes it (his own bill).

Gives lip service to environmental and climate change issues, but missed 22 chances last year to back up that lip service with actual votes.

Called Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell "agents of intolerance" before reversing himself and going hat-in-hand to them begging for their endorsements.

Voted against requiring insurers who cover Viagra to offer contraceptive parity for women, now his spokeswoman Carla Fiorina said he supported it.

Was for deregulation before he was against it.

Then there is the whole thing since the start of the economic meltdown, changing positions and statements by the hour, lurching from left to right to up to down, suspending his campaign, backing out of the debates until there's a deal then going to the debate without a deal. Against buying foreclosed houses. For buying foreclosed houses at reduced value. For buying foreclosed houses at face value (so taxpayers let risky lenders off the hook).

How do you know he's not lying about all his other promises?

Oh Please wrote on Oct 22, 2008 3:14 PM:Asteroid[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:45 PM:
Please present your evidence that Obama is a black marxist? Comrade, it is ok to answer. I am not a liberal.

Prove It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 3:17 PM:Vote Yes on 8[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:50 PM: Please give us the quote about one man with one woman given by Jesus Christ?

Karl wrote on Oct 22, 2008 3:19 PM:Wanda @ 2:52 PM, What have you got against my flip flops? I love my flip flops. When not wearing golf shoes you will find me in them 11:17 AM or any other time of the day.

Are you starting a campaign against flip flops? If so, you'll lose. Give it up.

Ms M wrote on Oct 22, 2008 3:30 PM:Obama is a liar
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:45 PM:...geez thank goodness he didn't take the public funds - seems to be a pretty smart move on his part. Is that all you can come up with. Now, do you really want to talk about who lies? I find it odd that you are upset with a lie Obama told - but the current CIC has lied to the American people for years. Hopefully, you will hold president Obama to the same standards as the cons have held for Bush!

Constitution by Jesus wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:01 PM:So we should let Jesus dictate our Constitution? Hmm, I'm not aware of Christ himself defining marriage, but I am certain that he said we should love our enemies, turn the other cheek, and do unto others as we would have others do unto us. This would require a constitutional amendment to ban wars and ban the death penalty. Wouldn't it be something if all Americans who pretended to be Christian would really back such an amendment, as Jesus no doubt would have them do? No, forget it, let's just be "Christians" when it comes to gays and embryos.

Dead or dying wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:07 PM:To Mike the Trucker at 9:07 AM

Did you mean died in the wool, or did you mean dyed in the wool?

Are you speaking of a woolen shroud in which someone deceased, or wool that was colored before being spun? Or did you mean to spin what you said?

There is a vast difference between dye and die.</B<

tjefferson wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:20 PM:The RNC spent $150,000 on clothing for Sarah Palin since she was picked for VP by McCain. She's not even one of the elitist! My gosh, I wonder what the Obama's have spent? They're the elitists.

Chris wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:21 PM:I found it to be unbelievably irresposible for the California Teachers Association (CTA) to donate over a million dollars out of their union funds to help defeat prop 8. Since when do educators get involved in helping to set public policy. The last I heard the teachers association and the education budget for that matter were in dire need of funds. Its unbelievable how organizations spend money. Whats on it for them. I just dont get it

Costs evaluation wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:26 PM:Waiting for costs evaluation of Joe, the Plumber

Would you like those figures without a plumber's license or with a license? (11:18 AM)

And would you like that with unpaid back taxes deducted?

sdraoul wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:27 PM:Asteroid -- you don't know your history. The Civil War started before Lincoln was inaugurated when several southern states voted to secede before the inauguration which was in March..

Cool Info Think About It wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:30 PM:Think About It
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:43 PM: Just Think About It, it will come to you.

Crashed 5 planes wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:32 PM:To: Think about it 11:49 AM

McCain crashed five military aircraft? No wonder his luck ran out.
No wonder his wife pilots their personal airplane.
And I don’t blame Miss Sarah for refusing to fly in a plane with John McCain. She wants to become president.

Wanda wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:33 PM:Well, Karl at 3:19 PM, your 2:20 PM (not 11:17 AM) post ended with "Am I clear enough?"

I couldn't resist this.

Sorry.

tjefferson wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:42 PM:The Republicans tell us that John McCain with 7 homes and 13 cars and Sarah Palin with her brand new $150,000 wardrobe represent "the real" America. I didn't know there was a Neiman Marcus in every small town in "the real" America and that "real Americans shop in such expensive stores. Is Neiman Marcus across the highway from Walmart in Wasilla?

Asteroid wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:45 PM:Oh Please
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 3:14 PM:
You certainly are, but I’ll answer you anyway, as I only half answered the other liberal. There is no “empirical” evidence that Obamna is a Marxist, one has to discern these things for themselves. What did George Bush the Sr. do right after saying “read my lips”? Did Bill Clinton campaign as a womanizer and a sap regarding the threat of Islamo facism? Did GWB campaign as an imbecile and puppet of Mexico. Time will be the judge of the messiah Obama.

Proposition 8 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:48 PM:Tyranny of the majority

Letter writer David Bouck berates the CA Supreme Court because the closely divided court ruled 4-3 that marriage is an inalienable right, not one conferred by government or voters. Bouck seems to be saying that a simple majority of the judges decided gay marriage is a right. Yet, in the upcoming election, a simple majority (50% plus one voter) can decide who cannot marry. Can you imagine: 5 million Californians vote YES on Prop 8, but 5 million plus 1 vote NO, so the one decides for everybody.

Hmm-m-m-m-m. The simple majority should rule, therefore the next time we need a tax hike, or a piece of private property, the simple majority should rule. That ONE extra vote decides who is right. The voters can decide to take your property, and the voters can decide to take away your right to marry.

This is known as "Bouck's baloney"

Asteroid wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:00 PM:sdraoul
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:27 PM:
I guess that depends on who you consider a better authority on the subject, you or Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln always considered the secession a "rebellion" or "insurrection". Secession itself didn’t constitute the start of the war. Actual hostilities began with the siege of Fort Sumpter. Excuse my ignorance.

gracchus wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:03 PM:at 2:45 p.m., asteroid, you clarified my point.

first, you do not recognize that the confederate states of america engaged in unconstitutional act of sedition against the united states of america. and your esteemed ron paul fails to recognize that lincoln bent over backward to avoid the military confrontation which the confederacy forced upon him.

second, asteroid, you called obama a marxist. but you have failed to show that he embraces marxist economics or politics. unless you can show definitive proof that obama is a marxist, you should refrain from calling him one.

calling obama a socialist, communist, marxist, leninist, or stalinist is analogous to the mud slung at mccain in 2000. if you recall, bush operatives were circulating rumors that mccain had fathered an illegitmate black child, that mrs. mccain was a drug addict, and that mccain was mentally disturbed. it wasn't right to spread rumors about mccain. and it's not right to spread rumors about obama.

Maverick McCain wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:11 PM:McCain a maverick pilot

This was published in the LA Times on Oct. 6, 2008:

John McCain was training in his AD-6 Skyraider on an overcast Texas morning in 1960 when he slammed into Corpus Christi Bay and sheared the skin off his plane's wings.

McCain recounted the accident decades later in his autobiography. "The engine quit while I was practicing landings," he wrote. But an investigation board at the Naval Aviation Safety Center found no evidence of engine failure.

The 23-year-old junior lieutenant wasn't paying attention and erred in using "a power setting too low to maintain level flight in a turn," investigators concluded.

The crash was one of three early in McCain's aviation career in which his flying skills and judgment were faulted or questioned by Navy officials.

This firmly established McCain’s reputation at an early age as a MAVERICK. His maverick behavior finally caught up with him while on a bombing mission over Vietnam.

Backcountry wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:12 PM:Apparently Obama's notion of "spreading the wealth around" is not a form of socialism according to several answers provided by people on this forum. Repub. Socialist calls it a tax break, OMG calls it socialism for the wealthy and Reardon calls it class warfare. Surely I thought someone here would have a better name to describe robbing Peter to pay Paul, however I think Reardon is getting close to the correct answer.

However Repub. Socialist questions my opinion about a "Republican" take over of the economy, banks,etc. Actually I think a federal take over of banks, energy or any private enterprise is criminal. It's called nationalism. I don't support it. We should all complain as loud as we can, whether we are Repubs. or Dems. to stop government from any take-over of private enterprise because it goes against our constitution and the free market system. And by the way, this was not a Republican take-over as asserted by Repub. Socialist. Congress voted to approve this bail-out and take-over which included McCain, Obama and most of the Democrats and a few Republicans.

to Sarah Oftedal wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:27 PM:Sarah wrote "... I could not bless or witness their ceremony."

Sounds unreal; not rational.

How does your daughter feel about her sibs & Mom & Dad.

Your religion is scary. Are you in a prison environment and cannot have and make reasonable decisions and choices using your brain.

Or perhaps you are in a cult.

Or perhaps you wrote an early Halloween story.

john wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:34 PM:To Murel Fisk:
Being a Democrat you of course do not have it straight. McCain can and will make cuts across the board and then from existing funding he will move money to help children of special needs. It's called prioritizing. It's frustrating educating liberal democrats. No wonder California schools never have enough money.

john wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:46 PM:Rush - That's all you have? That's it?That I'm reading talking points? Like all liberal dementocrats, you won't believe that people can speak their own mind and disagree with you. Your narrow view is that everyone that disagrees with you is only following someone else. That tells me that you've never had an original idea in your life. So Rush please remember to vote on November 5th.

Dave wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:55 PM:'The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should
be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom
should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to
foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt.
People must again learn to work, instead of living on
public assistance.' -- Cicero , 55 BC

Decide for yourself wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:03 PM:Is Obama a Marxist? Read his (and Engels) “Communist Manifesto” and decide for yourself. It’s not hard to find, and it doesn’t involve much reading – in outline form.

Compare the “Manifesto” to Obama’s platform and DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.

It isn’t necessary to resolve this issue by online debate. DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.

And, please, don’t let this post lead you to pre-conclusions about me. I don’t care what you think or how you vote. I have survived 4 major surgeries; I take 6 Rx’s per day to maintain, and don’t expect to survive the next presidential administration. So, the best advice I can give you is: DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.

Just Saying wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:28 PM:gracchus[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:03 PM:
There was nothing in the Constitution that deprived any state from leaving the Union. The right to leave the Union eas decided on the battlefield. Today, it is like that ole song, the hotel California. "You can check out any time you want but you can never leave."

Wanda wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:40 PM:Well, John, at 5:34 PM, it is not particularly clear how you figured Murel Fisk was a democrat, or why she (or any of the rest of us, for that matter) needed your insipid drivel about John McCain's economic wisdom.

Ms M wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:43 PM:Maverick McCain
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:11 PM:...thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm still laughing! Oh my!

Asteroid wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:47 PM:gracchus
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 5:03 PM:
Before you hazard to engage me again and embarrass yourself; for starters, please read my posts at 4:45 and 5:00 and note the difference between “sedition” and “secession”. Also my comments regarding the Marxist (in my opinion) Obama.

Oh Please wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:50 PM:Asteroid[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 4:45 PM:
So, Asteroid has no evidence that Obama is a black marxist. The evidence is that Obama is Black. So, Asteroid did in his original post is regurgitate McCain/Palin campaign rhetoric which should be read from a book that beings, 'Once upon a time."

Bob wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:59 PM:What does John's post, at 5:34 PM, have to do with Murel Fisk's letter about Caribou Barbie being the greatest thing since sliced bread?

I'm not a liberal democrat, but apparently I'm too slow to find the connection.

Ms M wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:00 PM:Asteroid
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:47 PM:...regarding the Marxist (in my opinion) Obama....whew - that makes a huge difference - it's "just" YOUR opinion. Thank goodness!

Roger wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:14 PM:Well Bob, at 6:59 PM, and Wanda at 6:40 PM, I see no connection whatever between John's post and reality. Connection to Murel Fisk's letter is even more of a stretch.

He seems pretty upset with some Rush guy in his 5:46 PM post. Anybody have a guess what this is all about?

Ms M wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:14 PM:You know, I think what really ticks you cons off is that Obama really IS the better candidate and the person who will be the next POTUS. The following is an excerpt from the web:

ABC News' George Stephanopoulos reports: When your adversaries are praising you, you must be doing something right.

Listen to this from one top Republican campaign official who says Barack Obama's ground game is unlike anything we've ever seen before:

"This is the greatest ground game they've ever put together," he told ABC News on the condition of anonymity. "It's scary."

He said Obama holds a considerable ground game advantage over McCain and suggests the Democratic nominee has hundreds of paid staffers in each state.

...um, he's also saying that Obama is kicking you know what - how sweet it is!

Ron wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:35 PM:Since you are a "land reformer", and since we now know {cause I educated you} that "land reform" means collectivism, I know that "business" is not your strong suit, so pay attention, and listen up, while I educate you.
Now, what my good buddy fails to understand about SBA, the Small Business Adminstration, is this.
You listening? "gracchus" @11:55 AM?

The SBA does not.. I repeat, does NOT subsidize business. What they do is help with planning, development of business plans, and yes.. they help to find loans. Let me repeat that for my dear, dear, land reforner buddy...
LOANS.
Ocassionly, they will "grant" you money, for a particular project, a start-up in certain areas of the country, usually urban areas they want to see redeveloped. But, it's not, and never an on-going expense, a subsidy.
But, by far..... they do not subsidize small business's.
Are we clear now?

Now, subsidies are left-over's from a failed FDR agriculture program, which I might add, it probably is one of the largest "business's" we do subsidize.
Think about it, you go to your local store to buy milk. You notice the price is rising now because of many different factors, but what you'll never see are the "over-head" costs of subsidizing dairy farmers. Yeah, that's the unknown cost. And what you get from that if the government buying cheeze.
Yep, cheese......

Yep, they buy so much of it, they then have to rent, lease cold warehouse space to keep it all from rotting.
When the amount grows to such a point they can not store it all, because the costs of warehousing are now exceeding the initial cost of buying the cheese.
So you got cheese costs, and warehousing costs, and shipping costs, and inspector costs, and on, and on, and on.. it goes.
You know what my land reformer friend?
So the dairy farmer never get's any better at his job, because he always has a customer, the taxpayer.

That's some expensive cheese.
Maybe the French would be interested in this expensive cheese?

the polls are skewed wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:47 PM:The fraudulent DEm registrations make the pollsters think theirs more Democrats so they skew the phone calls. They call more Dems than Reps. Kerry was ahead in the polls too at this point. So was Gore.

Ron wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:49 PM:Let me get this straight...
"Oh Please" @6:50 PM.

If I attend a Catholic church, join the church, get married in the church, and have my kid's baptisted in the church, most people would conclude that I was a Catholic. right?

Now, let's examine the church the Barackous Nobamous attended.
His pastor was mentored by James Cone, who wrote Black Liberation Theology.
Liberation Theology is a mixture of both Christianity and Marxism.
In the Black Libertion model, there is also the component of black seperatism.

So, if for 20 years I attended a church who taught this stuff, and I listened to it for 20 years? Your still questioning, if I agree with it?
I've voted with my feet, my presence, my mind being there every Sunday.
And as the old saying goes: Bird's of a feather....
Yep, he's a black marxist.
No doubt.
And after this talk of "spreading the wealth around", you still don't think so?
Well, it's often hard for those inside the same group, to see diffences.

Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:56 PM:Roger at 7:14 PM wonders who this Rush guy is who has John, at 5:46 PM, so worked up. Only Rush I've ever heard of is that Rush Limbaugh radio guy, and these conservative types normally like him.

Rant about Murel's letter, at 5:34 PM, is even more baffling.

Guy sounds pretty angry and disoriented.

Reardon wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:05 PM:Asteroid: Is Obama a Marxist? I don't know, and none of us will until Obama has been in office for awhile and we will see if the Democrats can restrain him or not.

I am old enough to remember when the Democratic Party had two wings, but one (the right one, then represented by Sen. Sam Nunn) has atrophied from non-use.

One quick sign will be the influence and visibility of Congresswoman Maxine Waters. She is about as far left as anyone.

jvc wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:15 PM:Obama is an American who as president will lead as such!

DD Wiz wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:15 PM:Republicans are the Marxists
The post from "Decide for yourself" (6:03pm) doesn't come out and make the LIE that Obama is a Marxist, but insinuates with sleazy Republican innuendo that if you read the Communist Manifesto for yourself you'll conclude that he is.
Well, as a long ago Political Science major I did have to read the Communist Manifest, Das Kapital, and all the rest, and I have a copy of the Communist Manifesto on this computer for ready reference.
As a proud Democrat who supports a regulated entrepreneurial private-sector MARKET economy of the kind espoused by Adam Smith ("Wealth of Nations," London, 1776), in which he supports such things as consumer protection, rent control and progressive taxes, I firmly REJECT the Marxist theory but, unlike those of you who just deal in innuendo and rumor, I can cite "chapter and verse" for what Marx teaches, and I can assure you that there is NOTHING in promoting tax cuts for the MIDDLE CLASS or a strong base of workers and consumers to fuel a vibrant market economy that resembles Marxism in the slightest.
In contrast, outright government takeovers of coprortions, engineered by this REPUBLICAN adminsitration, is straight out of Marx.
FDR saved this country from Socialism in 1933, and Democrats, led by Barack Obama, will save us from Republican socialism AGAIN.
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

Ms M wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:21 PM:Palin's $150,000 shopping spree - it seem's the cons really, really, really, really had to do a lot of cleaning up! Oh my!

Ms M wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:24 PM:DD Wiz
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:15 PM:...you go Wiz!

jvc wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:26 PM:The Indians have embraced the American
character of advancing their space
program while ignoring the poor of their country!

Roberto1 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:30 PM:Share the wealth, steal from the so-called rich and give to the poor. Vote for Obama. I say export rich people, who needs them anywys?

Reardon wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:32 PM:Our friend SDR (Raoul Lowery Contreras) had a column in the NCTimes today called Streets Run With Blood, about the murder rate in Mexico -- which is indeed terrible and being exported to America on the installment plan.

The M3 report, a translation service from Mexican newspapers by the Retired Border Patrol Agents, published this tonight from El Universal (newspaper) in Mexico City: "A confrontation between hired killers yesterday afternoon in Juarez resulted in three deaths. Nothing particularly newsworthy there. But the significant issue is that now Mexico’s toll of deaths linked to organized crime has reached four thousand so far this year, a historic record.

The last one thousand deaths have taken place in 48 days. The first one thousand deaths of the year took place in 114 days, the next one thousand in 72. But seventy days later, it reached 3 thousand."

Add to the problems we face, the very real threat of chaos in Mexico and tens of millions of refugees.

Oh Please wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:34 PM:Now, let's examine the church the Barackous Nobamous attended.
His pastor was mentored by James Cone, who wrote Black Liberation Theology.
Liberation Theology is a mixture of both Christianity and Marxism.
In the Black Libertion model, there is also the component of black separatism.

That is only your opinion. You have never been in the church, attended a service or spoken with parishioners. all you have is the clips for Rev Wright. You assume that everybody in the church agrees with them. You have no0t seen their catechism. You are trying to connect non extant dots. so, let us see some evidence instead of conjecture.

Reardon wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:48 PM:I urge everyone to review ALL of the posts today from "Oh."

Not one fact. Not one quote. Not one reference.

But there were TWO requests from her for others to provide facts to support their opinions.

Now you know why I do not reply to her, even when she queries me. This is her methodology, daily. Check her out tomorrow.

(Perhaps we can get her to actually do some research...nah...I'll bet she reminds some of their first wife.)

Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:50 PM:Per jvc's 8:26 PM post the Indians have their own space program now. Must be doing really well with their casinos.

gracchus wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:03 PM:it was good of you, asteroid, to write at 6:47 p.m.:

"Also my comments regarding the Marxist
(in my opinion) Obama."

i commend the statement. we now know that an anonymous commentator has the opinion that obama is a marxist. you provided us your documentation and i thank you for it.

concerning your views on the difference between sedition and secession, i will cite the united states constitution, and then asteroid, you can defend the confederate states against the national document.

Article I, section 10:

"No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation...."

"No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign, or engage in war, unless actually invaded...."

Article III, section 3:

"Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."

by endeavoring to secede from the union, the confederate states engaged in sedition, insurrection, and treason. i think that the constitution makes that clear.

and if ron paul cannot see this, i seriously question his qualification to be a member of the house of representatives, much less president of the united states.

Surfer wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:11 PM:Fred[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:50 PM: Dude. You are witty! Is that you, Chuck?
See ya!

Asteroid wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:38 PM:gracchus
[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:03 PM:
Your ability to “google”, “cut and paste” materials or information regarding the Civil War and the U.S.Constsitution are very impressive; far more so than your ability to understand them and use them to construct an intelligent argument. I bid you adieu.

Vermont Repulic wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:38 PM:"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government," said Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence. Just as a group has a right to form, so too does it have a right to disband, to subdivide itself, or withdraw from a larger unit.

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison held that the U.S. Constitution was a compact of sovereign states which had delegated very specific powers but not sovereignty to a central government-powers which could be recalled any time. By international law sovereignty cannot be surrendered by implication, only by an express act. Nowhere in the U.S. Constitution is there any express renunciation of sovereignty by the states.

Foreign Correspondent wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:48 PM:Today's Washington Post reports results of monitoring of chatter on postings for the Al Qaeda linked website Al-Hesbah. Google "Al Qaeda Al Hesbah, Washington Post and McCain."
In Arabic, and not intended for American consumption, monitored Al Qaeda bloggers are found discussing their preferences in the U.S. Presidential race.
Their favorite?
JOHN McCAIN.
No, they do not question his patriotism or loyalty to his own country, nor do I.
Their rationale?
They see him as being another belligerent who will follow the militaristic aggression of George Bush, which is Al Qaeda's strongest recruiting tool.
In other words, just as Bush's policies have helped strengthen Al Qaeda, they believe McSame will continue the same policies that have been so good to them.

But they are sophisticated.
This was not supposed to be released to the American public.
Knowing how much real Americans despise them, they would rather allow rumors and innuendoes to be perpetuated suggesting the opposite, that they really support McCain's opponent, but this is what they are really saying among themselves.

Fred wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:53 PM:No, Surfer, at 9:11 PM, I'm not Chuck.

Have noticed Chuck has been missing the past few days. What's up with this?

Had some John guy at 5:34 PM and 5:46 PM who, apparently, thought Murel Fisk and Rush Limbaugh were liberal Democrats, and was pretty hostile about it. Was beginning to suspect this was Chuck.

Richard wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:01 PM:I am amazed at how the GOP whines that Obama is a socialist because of progressive tax percentages on income. Notice though that this complaint is going right now during an election cycle. All the years while the GOP had dominant control of the White House, Senate, House and the Courts, what did they do to try to remedy this notion that tax rate schedules have been socialist? Nothing. Taxes have worked this way for as long as I can remember, and yet suddenly now it's 'Obama's fault' and 'socialism' because they are the way they are. All Obama wants to do is revoke the massive tax cuts Blush 41 instituted while he also started a war in Iraq. McCain was shown on news shows to have voted against those cuts originally, and yet now is mad that Obama wants to repeal them. Who pays the bills for this war in Iraq that spreads wealth there? It doesn't grow on trees, folks. War is expensive, but GOPers who want it don't want to pay for it?

Secret Identities wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:41 PM:Fred at 9:53 p.m. makes guesses about the real world identity of Chuck (are you COMPLAINING that he finally decided to go to a kidde blogspace where he fits in better?)
No, Chuck is not Murel Fisk.
A few months, a letter to the editor from a Charles (in the spirit of NCT's anonymity I won't include the last name) that referenced SB777 and used some of our dear Chuckie's favorite catch phrases was printed, so Chuck was tied to his letter-writing identity, as a few others who both blog here and write letters have been.
There are other regular letter writers whose blog identities are not known (if they blog at all) and other bloggers who post here but either don't write letters or have not been linked to their writings.
And, of course, some are known to some others but not to all.

gracchus wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:57 PM:in your communique of 7:35 p.m., ron, you made at least one ignorant statement:

"...we now know {cause I educated you} that 'land reform' means collectivism...."

such an assertion manifests a profound lack of knowledge about agrarian reform in different societies at different times in history. the brothers gracchi, for example, in the 2nd century b.c.e. sought to redistribute lands illegally obtained by wealthy patricians to small family farmers. the aims of the gracchi were hardly collectivist.

you seem to think that the communist model of land reform is universal; it isn't. if you read a bit more deeply in history, you would realize this.

you digress when you expatiate on the small business administration. in my commentary at 11:55 a.m. i wrote nothing about small business.

i asked you why you attack the welfare benefits of the economically disadvantaged, yet remain silent of the welfare benefits of corporate farms in the form of agricultural subsidies. they are like the timber, mining, and oil companies which receive sweetheart deals to extract natural resources from lands belonging to the united states taxpayer. they are in that top 5% of income earners about whom you lament paying such a large percent of the taxes that support the government. if they're making so much money through hard work, why do they need subsidies, which can justly be called welfare entitlements?

i won't deny that the economically disadvantaged have entitlements, ron. will you admit that the rich have their entitlements as well? then when we discuss reducing entitlements, we can consider which are least beneficial to society.

gracchus wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:09 PM:adieu, asteroid. and please remember in the future when you make any defamatory remark about obama, either document your source or acknowledge that it is the opinion of an anonymous commentator.

Gotta Wonder wrote on Oct 23, 2008 7:42 AM:Asteroid[-] wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:38 PM:
Gotta laugh. Asteroid tries but fails in his rear guard action as he leaves the field to gracchus.

Richard wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:27 AM:Since we have been talking about Max Cleland's purple heart, I tought I'd share part of a letter I received from him today.

"In 2002, Saxby Chambliss won his Senate seat in the final days by putting my (Max's) picture next to Osama bin Laden and lying about me. It was despicable, but it worked."

Yes, such slander seems to work, which must be why the GOP hacks now are tripping over themselves claiming Obama supports kindergarten molestation education and that he is or has ties to terrorist or that he is or may be anti-American and is or may be a socialist, and Bin Laden actually wants you to vote for him, not McCain, etc., etc.
I agree with patriot hero Max Cleland; don't believe any of it.

gracchus wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:32 AM:at 9:38 p.m. vermont republic wrote that madison and jefferson considered the various states sovereign. perhaps they did when the articles of confederation governed the various states from 1781 to 1789.

Article II states:

"Each state retains its sovereignity, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.

the articles of confederation did not provide sufficient political and economic stability for the former british american colonies to survive as an entity. thus the leaders of the various independent states sought to form a more perfect union, as they clearly declare in the preamble of the united states constitution.

nowhere does the u.s. constitution acknowledge the states' soveignity as the Articles of Confederation do. in fact it significantly circumscribes the sovereignty of the various states as paragraph 2 of Article VI shows:

"This Constitution and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."

the 13 states realized that they were giving up their sovereignty when they agreed to ratify the u.s consitution. perhaps the constitution does not prohibit secession, but it certainly doesn't permit it. Article VI makes clear that the laws of the various states are subordinate to those of the consititution.

secession flouts the united states constitution. the act of secession might serve a certain constituency's notion of rebellion against despotism or tyranny. but in no way can secession be considered a constitutional act.

Richard wrote on Oct 23, 2008 4:37 PM:Bush signed the Act for awarding 611 billion dollars for defense, just for next year, 2009. The Pentagon still hasn't figured out what its reponsiblity actually is. They still buy whatever their brains tell them they think they can't live without, instead of that which they actually need. George Washington won the Revolutionary War, an actual real war, with so little money he couldn't even replace worn boots for his men.
I thank Senators Byrd and Feingold for being the only two Congressmen who voted against this and for their good understanding of the diference between a war and a delay-able police action.