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ESCONDIDO: New downtown plaza may include water features, unusual lighting
Merchants praise ideas at Wednesday public forum
By DAVID GARRICK - Staff Writer | ∞
NCT staff ESCONDIDO ---- Brick sidewalks, water fountains where children can play and a long corridor of ornamental lights might be coming to downtown Escondido next year.
An architect offered those suggestions and several more during a Wednesday morning forum about a festival plaza and pedestrian corridor planned for Maple Street.
City officials said they want the plaza and corridor, which could be completed as early as next summer, to help draw visitors from all over the county to downtown.
They said final plans should be determined early next year after public comment is incorporated into both projects. The idea was first proposed two years ago.
Initial plans call for the rectangular Maple Street Plaza to extend from Grand Avenue to Valley Parkway. It would be created by narrowing Maple and losing 23 parking spots on the street. Highlights would include large seating areas and open spaces for concerts and street performers.
The Maple Street Pedestrian Corridor would be a narrower, six-block walkway running from Second Avenue to the northern edge of Grape Day Park.
Together, the projects would cost more than $1 million. But officials says most of the money would come from a $935,000 "smart growth" grant from the San Diego Association of Governments, a regional planning agency that rewards cities that cater to pedestrians.
The downtown merchants and residents at Wednesday's forum generally praised the ideas presented by architect Glen Schmidt. They were particularly enthusiastic about the interactive water fountains and the light corridor, which would resemble pedestrian areas in many European cities.
"Lighting can really create a magical place," Schmidt told the audience. "You can use it to create a distinctive look and feel."
Downtown leasing agent Jim Crone said that lighting Maple Street at night would help draw people to the plaza in particular and downtown in general. Others also praised the idea, but some worried that modern-looking lights might fit poorly with downtown's ambience as a historical district.
Creating a water display in the plaza where children and adults could splash around on hot days was also a popular suggestion.
"This would make the plaza an active space before we get some more urban growth around it," said Schmidt, who showed the audience slides of all his suggestions.
A similar water feature in front of Petco Park was closed this year because of safety issues, so Schmidt said the design would have to be carefully crafted.
Other ideas presented Wednesday included canopies for shade and laying brick to clearly delineate the plaza and corridor.
Schmidt also suggested that the walkways within Grape Day park should be redrawn.
"The park has many pathways that don't go anywhere," said Schmidt. "Right now, when you walk down this corridor, you really don't know where the destinations are."
Some merchants said new pathways could help eliminate some of the impediments to walking that now exist in the park.
The Downtown Business Association has generally supported the plaza and corridor, but association President Mike Peters raised some concerns Wednesday.
He said he was worried the plans did not include any way to replace the 23 lost parking spots in an area where parking is already scarce. He also said the choice of benches and pylons for the plaza should take into account how dirty the streets of downtown often become.
Other merchants worried about skateboarders taking over the plaza and whether shrinking Maple Street might affect delivery of supplies to nearby businesses.
Complaints from merchants last year prompted city officials to amend their original plan to close Maple Street entirely, and Assistant City Manager Charlie Grimm said the city is currently negotiating with the Fire Department to determine how narrow Maple can be.
Grimm conceded the project made more sense when condominium projects were being planned and built all over downtown a few years ago, because those residents would probably have made the most use of the plaza.
But he said city officials still have high hopes for the plaza and corridor.
"I think it's very important for the future of downtown," said Grimm. "It needs to be a cool place where people want to hang out."
Contact staff writer David Garrick at (760) 740-5468 or dgarrick@nctimes.com.
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Pink Power Ranger wrote on Oct 23, 2008 5:57 PM:Pink Power Ranger
[-] wrote on Oct 23, 2008 5:28 PM:What a waste of $1000.The Police have a 1/2 page ad endorsing Abed & Gallo....hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa!
155 Officers
119 CANNOT VOTE HERE....
-----
36 ...can vote for anyone running.
That's a humongous voting block!NOT!
wow....( can't stop laughing)
the Police Union got took!
Can you say
D E S P E R A T E POLITICIANS ?
Always making things look bigger than they are.
Goodbye Abed Gallo
VOTE THEM OUT NOV 4th
Pink Power Ranger wrote on Oct 23, 2008 6:17 PM:Have you people at the City lost your minds?
Start paying down the debts!
STOP SPENDING!
Allow children to frolic in recycled water that is shared by homeless/drunks/druggies.....absolutely not.Health and safety issue....big time!
Ohhhh...yeah...your children don't live here.They won't be exposed.
Not so many years ago...children in this city including mine were exposed to crabs/body lice/fleas from the homeless that frequented the Public Library.How do I know this? I worked for the company that treated the pest problem.My husband was the technician that did the job.My children never returned to that library.
pssst! people from all over don't come here now....a ped plaza isnt going to make them come either.We have a fountain nobody visits it but the homeless....get a clue!
How stupid! You just keep mismanaging.
WASTED MILLIONS$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
THROW Abed & Gallo out Nov 4 2008
take out the rest 2010.
OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT!
***********GAG********************
Observer wrote on Oct 23, 2008 7:17 PM:What nonsense using a story about a proposed downtown fountain to continue ones' rage against the police association running a campaign ad. Of course, nothing said about the firefighters I saw on my way to work, holding up campaign signs in front of the Toyota store, wearing parts of their uniforms. Where's the hahahahaha about that? The Pink Power Ranger rants on like he hasn't had a bowel movement in a week. Gotta learn how to disengage the Sticky Keys function. What pathetic behavior!
Escondeeter wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:00 PM:Sigh! Another plan to bring more foot traffic downtown without providing any restroom facilities for them. So, either all our merchants end up running defacto public restrooms, or, as has become more and more common, they get fed up and put one of those signs in their window that make visitors feel so welcome and appreciated.
Then, we take the city's 'great green' performing arts venue, a unique feature of the city, and cut it in half with a concrete walk. The park's the destination, why build a path across the middle of it? You don't hear a lot of people on Grand saying, "gee, I'd love to go see the Woodward parking lot, I hear it's lovely in the spring".
Once again, the city plans projects that have internally conflicting purposes.
To Observer wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:12 PM:The pink one is just upset that two thirds of the city's public safety employees have supported the incumbents, showing up the fire union's sleazy little anti-Gallo campaign for the pack of lies that it is. Don't be too unkind to her, finding one's delusions shattered by reality can be very painful.
vot for a real REPUBLICAN wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:37 PM:IF YOU'RE FEEDUP WITH THIS COUNCIL AND NEED A BETTER CHOICE, THEN VOTE DENNIS FRENCH INTO OFFICE.
A CHRISTIAN THAT CARES FOR HIS FAMILY AND COMMUNITY.
A NAVY VETERAN WHO HAS RUN A LOCAL BUSINESS FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
"THE REPUBLICAN THAT CARES"
Inland wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:38 PM:Are they kidding? A place to hang out, for who? I can't even get my friends to drive into Escondido after dark.
Mike S. wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:41 PM:How about a bike rack! What downtown Escondido needs is a bike rack! I'm tired of locking my bike to the trash cans when I go to the Farmer's Market on Tuesdays.
Art wrote on Oct 23, 2008 9:48 PM:Let me be sure I understand. The TransNet money that is supposed to be used for congestion relief will actually be used to close streets and eliminate parking in an effort to draw people to Escondido from all over the county? Here's a free clue. If there's no place to park, they won't be back. If they have to lug their purchases for blocks and blocks to get to their car, they won't be making purchases. And they won't be back. If they follow the news and remember that Escondido won't supply police for major civic events like the Christmas parade that attracts people from all over the county, they may not even come.
Christine wrote on Oct 23, 2008 10:01 PM:Dennis French sounds like a good choice. I don't want to see anymore building in Escondido. Wait a few years and let's get thru all the other stuff we are dealing with. Take care of our own people that live here.
An idea wrote on Oct 23, 2008 10:28 PM:It would have been great if someone offered a ridiculously low rent package to have the Apple store located downtown. That would be the kind of anchor they are looking for.
Pink Power Ranger wrote on Oct 24, 2008 2:06 AM:TO: observer
Once again you are WRONG!
I have no rage toward any Police Officer or association.
I am not a he, hence the Pink.
When you talk about my bowels that is getting a lil too personal ...but okay I'll tell you. They are fine. Never had any problems. Thanks for the heads up on the bowels issue. As I age I will look out for those problems.I am sure at 67 you have some tried and true solutions.
I've never had any sticky keys. Sounds like you have some real personal problems.
I've posted many times since Sunday about how much I enjoyed the Firefighter's signs at the street fair.It was fabulous! Yes, I would have loved to see those Firefighters outside the Toyota dealership in the a.m. too.
I may just run by there tomorrow morning and enjoy it.Thanks for letting me know where to see them.
As for me being upset by the 2/3's ...you're delusional...
119 of 155 cannot vote here.That leaves 36....you have 2/3's of nothing.
I don't blame the Police Officers for anything.EPD ROCKS!
I blame Gallo & Abed.Look around at what they have done here.Failure is everywhere.It cannot be denied.Our Police dont even want to live here...the criminal element.
Police Officers arent on the council .They arent running for office.They did NOT ruin this town...
inCRUMBANTS did.
Gallo 8 years too many
Abed 4 years too many.
...
/>Planning to build a pedestrian plaza when your council posted a - $9.8 MILLION DEFICIT for 2007/08 Fiscal is
ludicrous!
You can whine all you want that I come here and express my opinions. I have that right.I also have the right to vote. Wanna try to take any of this from me?
On the day that we vote Abed & Gallo out I will remember your last sentence and laugh hardily again.
Keep Smiling,
Pink
a proud gagalicious member
VOTE NOV 4 2008
Goodbye Abed Gallo
Local wrote on Oct 24, 2008 2:06 AM:What a confusing and misguided mess. Yes, let's carve up the park for imaginary crowds. At least the lost teens will have a fancy new place to hang out.
Joe wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:13 AM:You people keep it up about the homeless and before you know it, we'll be paying for their medical and most likely their drugs and booze! What's good for the illegals is good for the homeless! Or is it something about a goose?
Joe wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:16 AM:You want me to "vot" for a christian? (10 minute time delay while I roll on the floor laughing).
You've got to be kidding me? Yeah, let's start up the lemming party and vote them all in! lol
Karl wrote on Oct 24, 2008 8:10 AM:Hey PPR, there are three votes in this household for Abed and Gallo. To top it off some of my buddies here at the golf course had no idea who to vote for so I convinced the to go with Abed/Gallo. I think I've garnered about 50+ votes already.
Just thought I'd make your day.
The Charm of Escondido wrote on Oct 24, 2008 8:27 AM:They should add statues of Lester Maddox and George Wallace to the plaza. Or maybe an eternally burning cross. Those would be decorations that really reflect the charm of Escondido.
Notice wrote on Oct 24, 2008 8:41 AM:there's no hotel between City Hall and CCAE in that drawing? Think that means it's gone for good?
And I don't understand how closing down a through street and losing more parking spaces is an improvement for traffic flow or enticing pedestrians to downtown.
And as soon as the election is over, the big news will come out about the real financial position of the City. It's not gonna be good, but they've got to get Gallo & Abed back in before the announcement because they would never be re-elected once it's reported.
Radical Geezer wrote on Oct 24, 2008 9:24 AM:While we are constantly being baraged with commercials to save water and electricity, we build a water and light park to attract people and children downtown. I'm sure the council doesn't realize the message that sends while its residents are being asked to cut back on both resources. And this comes during what is being touted as being the start of a very deep recession. Wonder what the operating costs will be and how they intend to pay them.
Brad wrote on Oct 24, 2008 9:39 AM:I keep seeing people say that so and so has run a business for years so they could hold this or that office.
Sort of reminds me of a man saying...i've had a penis all my life so I'd be a great father!
Hello wrote on Oct 24, 2008 9:46 AM:Stop spending our tax dollars! We do not want this. In less than a year, it will be a gathering place for homeless drunks and illegals! There's not enough parking downtown as it is!!
Great Plan wrote on Oct 24, 2008 10:05 AM:but aren't we in the middle of a drought? Or doesn't the cities need to worry about that? It would provide a bathing spot for the folks that reside in Grape Day park though.
Im sorry wrote on Oct 24, 2008 10:09 AM:to have a positive thought on such a negative comment page, but I think this sounds pretty cool. It would be nice to have family oriented outdoor concerts, movies and festivals on summer weekend nights in a setting like this. Escondido can be more then barrios and 99 cent stores. Civic themed projects like this, which is similar to what they have at the Old Poway park, can do wonders for community spirit and pride in Escondido.
Karl wrote on Oct 24, 2008 10:26 AM:Mike S. @ 8:41 PM
I don't ride my bike to downtown but your's is an excellent idea. I have found the current council very receptive to ideas via email. If they disagree they will take the time to explain. All their email addresses can be found on the City website. I suggest that you email all of them. I would be surprised if you didn't get a bike rack or two soon or a least an explaination of why not.
escoman wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:50 AM:The down economy may slow the process, but the council is going to improve this city - in spite of all of the negative nay-sayers.
Maybe wrote on Oct 24, 2008 12:52 PM:instead of ornamental lighting for the park, we can have council members burning hundred dollar bills to light the way to the new hotel
To Karl wrote on Oct 24, 2008 12:58 PM:"Some of my buddies here at the golf course" that says it all man.
to Karl and ppr wrote on Oct 24, 2008 1:19 PM:Karl, if you friends did not know who to vote for by now, that should give you some indication of the intuitiveness and intelligence of the crowd you hang with. Sounds like you're the leader of the pack.
Hopefully we get some new blood on the council to undo the mess they've made so far.
PPR, you sound like a fun gal, but I really dont want to know about your bowels.
As for the actual subject we SUPPOSED to be commenting on, the council makes it sound like it's already paid for with that supposed grant. Is that money in the bank? If not, how do they know they are getting the grant? Oh, maybe the transient populus in where the "catering to pedestrians" comes in. Amazing they are seemingly spending money they dont even have yet.
Karl wrote on Oct 24, 2008 1:48 PM:To Karl @ 2008 12:58 PM
What's your point? Golfers are some of the finest and most honest people I know. Do you know any other sport where the participants call penalties on themselves? What in your opinion is wrong with golfers? They come from all walks, religions, races and political parties. My home course is about 50% women and 50% men. We have some real barnburning political discussions after golf while partaking in sudsy amber adult beverages. Fortunately we rarely sling the mud that is prevalent on this blog when you disagree with someone else's opinion.
Karl wrote on Oct 24, 2008 3:13 PM:Very fair comment and I appreciate it. I am very disappointed that many of my friends do not take the time to research at voting time and I have expressed that to them."to Karl and ppr @ 1:19 PM. I am astounded at the number of people that just hook themselves to a political ideology and leave it at that. I personally do the research on all candidates/propositions/judges as much as possilble.
Peace
To Gallo wrote on Oct 24, 2008 3:51 PM:To Gallo...I am to understand that because the firefighters union is not endorsing you...that you are now "un-endorsing" (new word just made it up) the firefighters?
I saw the anti-firefighters association campaign signs - the ones that have the name and a big red circle slash over the name.
There's an old saying: "Speak when you're angry and you'll make the best speech you'll ever regret".
Open mouth - insert foot (again).
Pink Power Ranger wrote on Oct 24, 2008 4:41 PM::::::::::giggling :::::::::::
aaahhh....To Gallo at 3:15PM you are fabulous!
Karl, you give yourself away when you talk golf balls.I've seen some studly golfers ...good thing I am married.
Adult beverages...wow...I would think you'd be taking better care of your body...not sedating with booze.
It's not mudslinging when you are telling the truth.The truth lies strewn all over Escondido ,it's a dump.A Ped Plaza isnt going to make it any cleaner. Karl...did anyone ever teach you that ,the truth will set you free?
Im still cheering for DIAZ & BARRON
NOV 4th....all the way!
Lee Thibadeau for PPH Hospital District.
Thibadeau, now that guy could teach you some tricks Karl.Probably on the course too.
gagabedgallo
A Homeless drunk wrote on Oct 24, 2008 4:56 PM:hit's the nail on the head!
Build it they will come.No money to spend in the downtown stores but they are coming.( hickup!)
Al wrote on Oct 24, 2008 5:24 PM:I like it. Anything that beautifies our city area is a good idea. Just do it!
OldEscondidoAlumni wrote on Oct 24, 2008 6:01 PM:To Pink Power Ranger,
I grew up in Escondido (the 70's), but do not live there anymore. I'm sorry that I don't know about those incumbents running for re-election....but....I totally agree with you about Escondido becoming a dump.
I also totally AGREE that it is inane to be spending more money on building, and more inane to be closing off any more streets and ignore the very tired look of what exists now. Sadly, as beautiful as downtown could have become...it has never been successful. I did see Escondido become nicer, with the initial changes (downtown/CityHall), then slide into what it is now. Valley Pkwy, Escondido Blvd and Broadway look tired and run-down because they are! I was SO SAD to drive around to various parts of town recently and see how run down the whole place appears. The huge Police presence on a Friday night does not bode well either for the safety of the place. I have never seen anything like that (police cars en-mass all over town) anywhere else in North County.
I also understand the comment from another on this board about friends who won't come into Escondido to visit. I decided against buying property here because the "vibe" in Escondido is creepy to me. Hopefully, the citizens of Escondido can unite and bring about the change that is needed to spiff up the place...and somehow, make the streets and neighborhoods safer also.
My best wishes to your passionate efforts! Don't Give Up!
Karl wrote on Oct 24, 2008 7:03 PM:Pink Power Ranger @ 4:41
Thanks for your concern. After walking 5 miles (every other day) carrying a large bag of clubs a few brewkis won't hurt this 6'0" 155 lb golfaholic. I do also walk an additional 2 to 3 miles after dinner. Just got home from the walk and man I miss the sun at 7:00 PM. See you on the street, I very much enjoy striking up conversations with other walkers.
Peace
College Student wrote on Oct 24, 2008 7:40 PM:Wow, I recommend that many of you do your homework. Smart Growth is the future, and by the way SANDAG does other things besides relieving congested roads (TransNet funds). I agree, there should be a bike rack to promote more biking. Downtown Escondido needs more life, and this would be a great project. I feel relief that many of you are not planners or urban designers, I would immediately leave your town.
Great job city planners, I want my city to become more pedestrian-friendly, and to have more of a night life! I hope this project comes to fruition.
Although our city is in a deficit, isn't our country in a much larger deficit, but they continue to spend billions on war. I would much rather come to this downtown development over going to the insipid mall. One suggestion to the planners, please put the lights back up on the trees that encompass the fountain at city hall. I am one of the "nobody" people who likes to sit and spend time there.
To Karl wrote on Oct 24, 2008 10:16 PM:So...you are 6 ft tall...hmmm.....and you like golf....hmmmm....where have I seen those same descriptions?
Oh Yea. I remember...it is on the Ed Gallo website...the one he put up for his re-election campaign. The one he obviously wrote - horribly at that!
I have this sneaky suspicion that Karl & Ed Gallo have more things in common. Wink. Wink.
p.s. I was just thinking about Karl's earlier posts about how he talked about 50 of his golf buddies into voting for the incumbents (the buddies that "didn't know who to vote for")...hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Karl had to "convince" them. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hold the phone: here comes the denial...(that's your que "Karl"
To Karl wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:41 PM:You won't see me on the streets.I don't hang out on the streets.I don't hang out in bars either.Karl if you were really walking you would have said, the sunset was gorgeous.Lamer!
But I do have an idea re:the Ped Plaza.
If you are going to build it...it will make a fabulous place for citizens to connect and protest the City Council's mismanagement of our town.
We can march to City Hall! I can see it now...NCTimes's Garrick ,The Tribune,San Diego NEWS channels film at 5pm..or 11pm...I can feel my old love beads returning...yep...the
PEOPLE'S PEDESTRIAN PROTEST PLAZA...come ,gather, pick up your signs ,make your voices heard and march on City Hall...we are mad as hell and we arent going to take it anymore!
SWEET!!!!! We wont have to pay to use it....okay I have to get a new website going....needs a name ...ummmm
Pink ;p
proud gagalicious member
VOTE DIAZ & BARRON NOV 4th
AirHead wrote on Oct 24, 2008 11:49 PM:To...College Student...
Your in college? Sure you are...hahaha...your'e an IBM engineer too....hahahaha!
We are talking about local politics.
NO wasted tax dollars on little tree lights.Unless you want to personally pay the bill yourself.If you were in college you'd have no time to
"sit and spin" at the city fountain....get a life,nobody!
toCollege Student wrote on Oct 25, 2008 12:10 AM:You said,"I feel relief that many of you are not planners or urban designers, I would immediately leave your town. "
Okay let me get some planners & designers ....we want you out!!!!!
Shawn wrote on Oct 25, 2008 9:53 AM:Thank you Mike S!
I agree! I am tired of trying to find a place to lock up my bike. There has been an increase in people riding bikes due to high gas prices (I know gas prices are down right, but for how long?). By placing bike racks around town it encourages people to get out of their car and get some exercise. Plus it is one less car on the road, one more parking spot, and environmentaly friendly.
BIG Gas Pains wrote on Oct 25, 2008 1:19 PM:The City of Escondido will leave a humongous carbon foot print on the planet....they gave some city employees that do 90% of their job right inside City Hall all day a
$10,000.00 gas allowances.
Dumbest City Council EVER!
More waste another "nook" for the drug peddlers ,drunks and bums.With lights and a pop up shower!Maybe that's what Abed means when he says HE made Escondido cleaner! He is going to shower the bums!
$do not vote for any incumbents$
Maria A.. wrote on Oct 25, 2008 4:17 PM:Having open spaces for concerts and street performers seems like a good idea for the city. Most of the funds will be coming from grant money. I do believe this will be good for the future of Escondido and I do believe it will be tax dollars to the city.
To Maria wrote on Oct 26, 2008 12:30 AM:An outdoor pedestrian plaza alone does not generate tax dollars.
The businesses around the plaza may reap rewards from this plaza and therefore sales tax will be generated through the good businesses downtown.
But, the thing is: The city will first have to dish out at least a couple hundred thousand to "build" the outdoor plaza. AND IT'S GONNA TAKE A LONG TIME TO MAKE UP THAT INITIAL OUTPUT!! The reputation of the city is in the crapper because of the council "majority" (all three of them). And two of these image destroyers are running for re-election.
VOTE THE INBUMBENTS OUT!!!
Vote for Diaz & Barron - candidates who will represent the CITIZENS!!
Brenda wrote on Oct 26, 2008 1:20 PM:aaahhhheeemmm......
We are already paying for the lights at the Arts Center.Plus power to run a $250,000.00 street light that is not needed.Here we go again.The heap of failures grows. History repeats itself in Escondido. Another "project" that generates no money for the city coffers but we must pay the bills to keep it lit.You don't maintain the streets yet you want to build a plaza.Can you say brain rot at the city council?
Stop this madness! You know it will not make a dime....at concept.Some grant money you just have to skip over and go for the grant money a city needs ,this is NOT it! I would venture to guess that everyone at that presentation was involved with making money off this being built.Builder/developer/A city employee.Or family members of the afore mentioned.
While talking to my friends this weekend at a party this issue among others were debated with the conclusion that Abed & Gallo must absolutely go.The rest of the council we have to remove in 2010.We are sick of this!
You were all elected to do the will of the people.The business of the people.Not smirk and say we are doing what we want. You have ALL failed.
REPLACE THE INCUMBENTS WITH BETTER !
- ESCONDIDO: Man shot dead at Fourth of July party (10463)
- TEMECULA: Protesters line intersection (6482)
- ESCONDIDO: 3 DUI arrests, 46 impounds at checkpoint (5254)
- ESCONDIDO: Border Patrol employee in custody after hatchet attack (5003)
- ESCONDIDO: City's dreams of an 'upscale' downtown may be dying (4895)
- HOUSING: Local median price up for third straight month (45)
- ESCONDIDO: Man shot dead at Fourth of July party (44)
- FALLBROOK: Peruvian chocolatier living sweet American dream (29)
- ESCONDIDO: Border Patrol employee in custody after hatchet attack (28)
- ESCONDIDO: Victim's roommate recalls July 4 shooting, friends gather for vigil (27)
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