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LETTERS: NCT, Oct. 29, 2008
By Readers of the North County Times | ∞
Martin is best for Oceanside City Council
I am very disappointed in the way that the North County Times has covered and reported on the Oceanside City Council race. Right from the beginning, it was obvious that you had decided which candidates you would quote and report on and which ones you wouldn't.
In my opinion, and a growing number of others, you ignored the most qualified and respectable candidate, Rex Martin. In all articles that I could find in the North County Times, Rex Martin was either never quoted or barely mentioned.
Rex Martin has run a clean and above-board campaign, based on his elective and professional experience and qualifications. It seems if you don't sling the mud, you don't get the headlines!
Rex Martin served as council member and mayor in Michigan, experience this City Council needs. Rex has not aligned himself with any special-interest groups. He is running for all of Oceanside and will represent all of Oceanside, with a fair, unbiased and objective point of view.
Rex Martin has the right experience, the right attitude and this is the right time. Vote for real change and your new voice that will break up all council majorities. Vote for Rex Martin.
Jean Ness
Oceanside
Do not support marriage inequality
Vote "no" on Proposition 8 in November. Marriage is about making a real commitment that shows a faith in love and respect between two people. Why should you or I have the right to decide whether that commitment is legitimate? The only reasons to vote yes are based on bigotry and fear. That is not the California I want to live in.
I am voting "no" on Prop. 8 because Americans deserve equal rights for all, not just some of us.
Frances
Cappelletti
Escondido
Prop. 2 forces their agenda on all of us
If you want more expensive free-range eggs, buy them. If you want more affordable and safer eggs, buy traditionally produced eggs.
Choice is a fundamental ingredient in all of our lives. But Proposition 2 takes choices away. If the supporters of Prop. 2 have made a personal choice to buy free-range eggs, that is fine. The problem is, they now want to make that choice for me.
While Prop. 2 sounds warm and fuzzy, it is no more than a veiled attempt by a few to force their agenda on all of us.
Michael Mellano
Bonsall
The best for Tri-City hospital district
There seem to be fliers circulating that might lead the casual observer to believe that the hospital endorses a slate of candidates and that could not be further from the truth. The hospital cannot endorse anyone, and certainly is not behind union-backed members who have their own agendas that could certainly be detrimental to the hospital.
We urge all voters to support the following candidates for election to the Tri-City Hospital Healthcare District: Darlene Garrahy, David Tweedy, Joseph Jewell and Randy Horton. We believe that these candidates truly have the best interests of the hospital at heart and are not representing any special-interest groups and support the current administration that is leading this hospital to excellence in many areas, including treatment of heart attack, heart failure, stroke and pneumonia.
If you want the best for our community hospital, please mark your ballot accordingly. Thank you for taking the time to seriously consider who can best help Tri-City Medical Center continue to operate with the quality care we have come to expect.
Craig and Valerie Lindholm
Carlsbad
Gigi Gleason
Oceanside
Residents know where Wood stands on issues
I'm proud of Jim Wood and the 45-year friendship we both value. His 30 years of service to Oceanside as a police officer was enough to earn my respect.
As mayor, he shows me every day how committed he is to giving back to the city he so obviously loves. I don't rely on Wednesday council meetings or articles in the paper to know where Jim stands on issues or what he envisions for Oceanside in the future. I learn from the conversations between two old friends, the kind where only true feelings come out and politics aren't allowed.
Oceanside is lucky to have Jim as its mayor and benefits from his genuine interest in the city, not just the office. This is a time when Oceanside needs to embrace its good people rather than replace them.
I support Jim in his bid for re-election and encourage you all to do the same.
Ted Sanborn
Oceanside
Arnold is a fresh face for council
My choice is Thomas K. Arnold for Carlsbad City Council. I have known the Arnold family for seven years; our kids go to school together at St. Patrick Parish School, where Mr. Arnold is our parent-teacher group president and a tireless volunteer and effective organizer. He really knows how to lead, and his election would bring a fresh face and a new perspective to a City Council in desperate need of a change.
I have nothing against Ann Kulchin, but isn't 28 years long enough? It's time to make room for someone new, and Mr. Arnold has all the right traits –– business experience, community involvement, passion and smarts –– to make him the logical choice to take our city into the future.
Doris Auth
Carlsbad
Protect us all; vote yes on 8
I heard a young woman say, "I'm going to marry a man. Why should I care what people do?" Here's why: Marriage, by definition, is the sacred union between a man and a woman designed, at best, to be the foundation of a strong, happy and healthy family. If our children are taught that marriage between the same genders is the same as marriage between a man and a woman, the traditional family unit, the basis of our society, will be irreversibly altered. No longer will fathers and mothers be the role models, providers, nurturers and teachers that children look up to for their example. The unique contributions a mother and father each bring to a family will be lost.
No person has the right to dictate to another who his choice of life partner should be. Laws have been established to protect the legal rights of those who live in same-sex relationships (Family Code 297.5). Neither should those who enjoy these relationships compel others to relinquish the institution of marriage or the values they teach their children and hold dear. Tolerance of another's beliefs is a two-way street.
Protect the family. Protect us all. Vote yes on Proposition 8.
Mary Holman
Fallbrook
Elect one of us to Carlsbad council
I sincerely hope the citizens of Carlsbad realize it's time for a change and vote for the most qualified candidate for Carlsbad City Council: Thomas K. Arnold. I know him to be an effective business executive, community leader and veteran journalist who probably knows Carlsbad better than any of the other candidates, including incumbent Ann Kulchin, who has been on the council for an unbelievable 28 years!
Those who know him best can attest to the fact that he is steadfast at getting things done for his community. I see Mr. Arnold in places I never see any of the other candidates –– on the soccer field, at school, on the beach with his family and in the heart of a community he truly cares about.
As the only candidate with a young family, I truly feel he represents us, the real people of Carlsbad –– not the old guard or the established power structure. I've been a citizen of Carlsbad almost my entire life, and I'd like to see a fresh face bringing fresh, much-needed perspective to our community. I say the citizens of Carlsbad should think long and hard about who best represents their best interests. ... Let's elect one of us this time!
Elisa Stabile
Carlsbad
Vote to protect our Constitution
The reports in the news of active involvement by several churches promoting votes for Proposition 8 worry me. Changes to our Constitution that favor or give rights to only one group of people, while taking them away from others, are wrong. One of the main purposes of our Constitution is to ensure equal rights for all individuals. There would be no equality for minorities if the majority alone dictates who receives privileges and who does not.
The fear tactics used by promoters of Prop. 8 in their commercials say that same-sex marriage will be taught in schools; the only thing that I have seen taught in schools besides reading, writing and mathematics is critical thinking.
Denying any person equality by writing into the state constitution who may pursue happiness or not is against the principles of our nation. Our forefathers very wisely chose separation of church and state. Justice for all depends on our ability to defend our California constitution.
Christianity has no monopoly on goodness or saintliness, but it should instead promote values such as compassion, tolerance, charity and love for our fellow man to promote justice and equality for all. I will vote to protect the Constitution.
Nora Klynjan
Carlsbad
Prop. 8 does not take away rights
Proposition 8 does not take anything away from anyone. Eight years ago, ballot initiative Prop. 22 required the state not to recognize same-sex marriage, and it was passed by 61 percent of voters, but it was recently overturned by activist judges.
Prop. 8 inserts into the constitution language that says California must recognize that marriage is only between a man and a woman. Same-sex couples still have civil unions and most all of the legal rights of heterosexual couples, as they should. ...
However, if Prop. 8 fails, churches could be forced to marry same-sex couples or be sued if they don't comply and could lose their tax status as well. This is a case of the state getting involved in religious beliefs.
Massachusetts allows same-sex marriage, and their public schools are teaching young elementary students about same-sex relationships, not what most families want. It should not be a political issue, but the fact is most prominent California Democrats and a few prominent California Republicans that I have heard state that they are against Prop. 8. That appears to be a national trend. I urge voters to study the facts and not be fooled by media ads.
Dave Perrine
San Marcos
Prop. T's hidden potential for tax increases
Borrow $98 million now and make no payments for 11 years. Meanwhile, allow interest to accrue to the tune of $149 million, according to the estimates of the Escondido Union High School District bond authors. Then, in 2020, Escondido residents must begin paying annually a high school district assessment on their property tax bill until the year 2054.
As unthinkable as this sounds, it is exactly what the EUHSD will do if they are successful in passing Proposition T. They have promised numerous times in all the information distributed that there "will be no increase in tax rates," but fail to mention that this is based on their assumption of an annual rise of 5.5 percent per year in property values. If values go down, tax rates must go up to meet bond payments.
The folly of this assumption could not be more clear than in the past two months, as we have witnessed the dismantling of the country's entire financial system. For just a peek at what this bond might mean to you, check your 2008-2009 property tax high school assessment against last year's. It is a real eye-opener. Please be informed about Prop. T and vote no.
Roberta O'Brien
Escondido
Keep teenagers safe; vote no on Prop. 4
My friend Susan and I were discussing Proposition 4. "I'm voting for it," she told me. "I'd want to know if my child is pregnant. I'd want to help her."
Susan is a kind, understanding woman. Her closeness to her daughter guarantees that her daughter would feel safe revealing an unwanted pregnancy to her mother. Thank goodness there are understanding parents like Susan. Unfortunately, not all are.
When I spent time in a home for unwed mothers, I saw whip marks on the backs of my pregnant friends and listened as the young mothers-to-be told me about how their fathers beat them and their mothers threw them out of the house, fearing their neighbors' scorn.
Sadly, there are no more safe homes for unwed mothers. But we are lucky enough to have Planned Parenthood –– havens where young women can go for information, guidance and understanding, where trained staff will help a frightened teenager make life-changing decisions apart from an irate parent. Please vote no on Prop. 4 and keep our teenagers safe.
Karen Riehl
Carlsbad
Wood has qualities we need in mayor
I'm voting for mayor for a person who listens to residents affected by controversial projects before the council, and votes in the best interest of the neighborhoods and their concerns for the impact on their properties.
I'm voting for a person who has concern for all citizens of Oceanside, not just developers attempting to curry favor with council members by contributing to their political campaigns.
I'm voting for a person who served as mayor during the approval of the downtown San Diego Malkin hotel project and the long-anticipated retail shopping center on the drive-in property in the valley.
I'm voting for a person who has empathy for the elderly and the less fortunate of our city. If integrity is a quality you value in the office of mayor of Oceanside, vote for Jim Wood –– I am.
Helen Messinger
Oceanside
Treat all animals in a humane way
I would like to urge all Californians to vote in favor of Proposition 2, which provides safe, humane living conditions for all farm animals in the state of California.
Most people don't realize that the hens laying the eggs they eat are confined in cages so small they can't fully stand up or turn around. Many don't know that sows (mother pigs) are kept in very small cages that don't allow them to do anything but stand or lie down. Veal calves are tied up by a rope around their neck their entire lives. We'd never treat our pets this way. We shouldn't treat our farm animals this way either.
Mahatma Gandhi said, "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Let's set a standard that animals –– whether they be pets or for consumption –– are treated in a humane way. Vote "yes" on Prop. 2!
Marjorie Old
Vista
Repercussions if Prop. 8 fails
Yes, it's true, the wording of Proposition 8 has nothing to do with schools, or even with churches for that matter. Instead, what people are failing to consider are the consequences that will undoubtedly follow if it does not pass.
Take a look at Massachusetts and you will begin to understand the path California is headed down. In 2004, Massachusetts legalized same-sex marriage. Within two years, second-graders were being taught about homosexual relationships. The court ruled that parents had no right of advance notice of what their children were being taught. Isn't this taking away parental rights?
In 2006, Boston's Catholic Charities closed their adoption agency doors because the court mandated they place children up for adoption with same-sex couples despite their beliefs. Isn't this an infringement on their First Amendment right to exercise religion? These are consequences directly related to legalization of same-sex marriage. If Prop. 8 fails, the repercussions will go far beyond just the right to get married.
Audrey Peterson
Rancho Bernardo
Blackburn has devoted his life to Carlsbad
My wife has known Keith Blackburn almost 50 years; I have known Keith for 30-plus years. He has always been a very responsible and admirable man.
Keith owned a stereo store in Escondido when he was only 18, but wanted to work in law enforcement and for the public. He went to the police academy, and after he graduated, he went to work for the Imperial Beach Sheriffs Department. Later he transferred to Vista Sheriffs. Eventually he started with the Carlsbad Police Department. Here he has spent the last 20-plus years trying to make a difference for his family, friends and people of Carlsbad. He has devoted his life to making Carlsbad a better place to live. He has influenced many people to move to Carlsbad.
We moved here from San Fernando Valley in 1989. He has also influenced his parents, grandmother, sister and brother-in-law to move here. Keith has also stated that he will be donating his council salary to charity; is any other candidate able to say this? We believe this is a win-win for the residents of Carlsbad.
Keith Blackburn is the only candidate to vote for in the City Council election.
Judi and Steve
Custodero
Carlsbad
San Marcos doesn't need Prop. O
San Marcos does not need Proposition O. A responsive City Council and Planning Commission are the best ways to ensure orderly growth with the least cost to the taxpayers.
Please ensure a strong economy and a progressive future for our gem of a city by voting no on Prop. O.
Elva Vollbrecht
San Marcos
Upset with robo-calls to cell phone
I am one very upset citizen/taxpayer who is being inundated with robo-calls from several local area politicians to my cell phone (minutes cost money!). One being Esther Sanchez, four calls and counting. ...
I am on the national do-not-call list, but I have found out that political affiliations are protected and thus allowed to conduct these types of campaign telemarketing.
I am not sure they understand what "do not call" means, but I will not be casting a vote for anyone who uses such blatant disregard for my personal privacy and intelligence and will form my own opinion on who would better serve my country or city.
Anita MacLyman
Oceanside
TCA's project a monument to failure
The Transportation Corridor Agency's troubled project, promising to deprive us of a unique and beautiful park, seems to be unraveling by its shoestrings. If history is to be our guide, the financial performance of the existing legs of the toll road stand in glaring contrast to the arrogant assertions of the TCA and its sister agencies.
This previously open space and now fully developed land, made possible only by construction of the adjacent toll roads, was to be the economic engine to pay the yields on private-placement bonds sold to investors in the projects.
Now the TCA is asking for over a billion in public funds to support its failing expectations ("Toll road agency's $1.1B loan request under fire," Oct. 17). ... TCA's request must speak volumes about the economic feasibility of the Highway 241 toll road extension. Am I the only one who is fed up with economic gambles, and economic gamblers who want to stick the public with the bill for their failures? I can assure you no one has come to me offering to give me a share of their windfall.
Gary Sirota
past president,
The Surfrider Foundation
Encinitas
Teachers union members urge yes on 8 vote
It has been reported that the California Teachers Association has donated over $1 million to the "No on Proposition 8" campaign, making it the largest institutional donor to the campaign against Prop. 8.
Although we are both members of CTA, our union has never consulted us about the use of our dues money for political purposes. We support Prop. 8, and urge your readers to vote "yes" on Prop. 8.
Eugene and Mary Cook
Fallbrook
Socialism and economic disaster
The triumvirate of political correctness, Sens. Dodd of Connecticut, Barney Frank of Massachusetts and Charles Schumer of New York, and affordable housing are at the root of a world economic disaster based on the desire of socialist chairmen of powerful Congressional committees to provide free housing to poor minorities at the expense of the banking business industry.
Of course, they are now blaming the industry for the failure of their socialist greed. I am sorry to see the press pass being given to these evil men, and to Sen. Obama, who rode their horses of political correctness through the streets of Chicago into the Congress and is now seeking to wield the power of the presidency into the socialist Democratic House.
We must all join Speaker Pelosi with the raised fist of socialism and abandon the Constitution of the United States.
Vincent Morrison
Oceanside
McCain, Palin use hate, fear to control followers
Whenever a so-called leader in the past wanted to incite his/her right-wing followers, they would always talk about their opposition as being unpatriotic, then create fear, anger and hatred toward their opposition, claim the other's personal character was evil because of their religion or race, calling him a terrorist and blaming him for all the present problems their followers were having. Every would-be dictator has used these tactics.
President Bush has used them often in the past eight years, and the McCain campaign has been using them for the past three weeks to incite their base. ... You should know that creating fear is a very effective tool in controlling the illiterate mass of people in any country (even the U.S.A.) into doing anything you want them to do. ...
McCain and Palin are even now creating fear and hate to distract the illiterate from what is really happening in this country, and win the election at any cost!
Gary Myers
Oceanside
Obama is without peer
To my senior brethren, the word is out that we, seniors over 60 or so, are against Barack Obama. What does this say about our white hairs, our years of experience? Are we without intelligence, unaware, stupid?
Obama is without peer –– a man of intelligence, plus that most important ingredient, soul. Read his books. He has not spent his time chasing money or glory. His purpose is akin to ours –– he wants to redeem America from the crimes of the last eight years.
One wonders about the undecideds –– how in God's sweet name can any American be undecided now after the last eight years of Bush? Where have you been? What have you read, researched, studied, discussed? Do you know nothing about the lies that took us into Iraq to kill, maim and destroy that country for money, profit? Do you know nothing of Abu Ghraib, of Bush's desecration of our Constitution, of habeas corpus, waterboarding, torture? If not, do not vote. You do not deserve to vote. Tear up your ballot and put it in the trash.
There is no excuse for ignorance when it comes to the election of our next president of the United States.
Madeline Steeg
San Marcos
City Council elections matter to us personally
National elections impact us in very important ways; however, local elections can make a bigger difference in your daily quality of life.
Your City Council impacts nearly every aspect of your life: jobs, traffic, housing density, property values, crime control, pollution, usage of public property and more. Mayor Jim Wood and Councilwoman Esther Sanchez have worked very hard for the people of Oceanside, and for intelligent development. Consequently, our crime rate is low, we have new parks and bike trails, senior and veterans centers and more.
Conversely, Rocky Chavez and Jack Feller consistently vote in favor of big money, with little regard for the desires of the people or consequences to us of more infill, traffic and pollution.
Please vote to re-elect Wood and Sanchez; and elect Charles Lowery to replace Jack Feller.
Ramona Byron
Oceanside
Gebhart has Fallbrook's best interest at heart
I have known and worked with Donna Gebhart for 12 years on numerous community enhancement projects. Donna would be an excellent member for our Fallbrook Community Planning Group. Her dedication and work ethic, a let's-get-involved and get-it-done attitude, coupled with her keen sense of business practices, bodes well for a person who will be a voice for our community.
Donna Gebhart has the best interests of the Fallbrook community in her heart and thoughts. She is dynamic, professional, well informed and would be an excellent addition and spokesperson for our community.
I urge you to vote for Donna Gebhart for the Fallbrook Community Planning Group.
Joe Comella
Fallbrook
Get out and vote!
I would encourage all of you young people to get out there and vote! Keep in mind that the decision that is going to be made will impact your life for the next four years. ...
Everybody makes mistakes. My worst ones: I voted for Chief Bush. My other was voting for Arnie, Gov. Terminator. As I stated, now I'm paying for it.
Question is, who created this financial mess in the first place? You don't think it was President Bush, do ya? I know it wasn't Gov. Terminator. He has plenty of money. Yeah, yours and mine. President Bush has been saying the economy is strong. Maybe in his backyard. You see, he gets a paycheck, free medical care, three square meals a day and the Mrs. doesn't have to cook it.
Now President Bush is telling us (Joe Taxpayer) we have to bail out these big corporations before the country goes into a recession. It's amazing our legislators didn't see this problem coming. ...
John McCain has been boasting about his experience compared with Barack Obama's. During the presidential debates, I thought Obama held his own very well. ... Me, I'm voting Barack Obama for president. You young people keep in mind that the decision I make will impact your life for the next four years. So get out there and vote!
Robert Martinez
Vista
Prop. 11 will bring change to government
After 25 years of no districts changing parties, it is time for the citizens who have no direct stake in the election to draw the boundaries of our legislative districts. If boundaries are drawn equally between Republicans and Democrats, there will be no safe seats, so we will get better candidates from both parties. Vote "yes" on Proposition 11. It's time for real change in government.
John McCain's plan to give $5,000 in tax credits to purchase health care shows how out of touch he is. I'd like to see him try to buy adequate health insurance for $5,000 a year. He says government-sponsored health care is not the answer, yet he has had taxpayer-paid health care all his life as a Navy brat, a member of the Armed Forces and a member of Congress. Obama's plan is realistic, using the best features of government and private enterprise to address the complexities of health insurance for all of us.
Joan Suffredini
Carlsbad
Democrats do not measure up
How can Americans let themselves be so duped by this modern snake oil salesman Barack Obama, a man with no executive experience except working for very leftist causes like ACORN in Chicago, which has done nothing to qualify him to be president. ... Also, according to experts, he would have to raise your taxes to pay for all his social programs. ...
The blame for the economic crisis we're having is really on the Democratic liberal policies of granting loans and mortgages to unqualified buyers, which originated in the Clinton administration. It could have been prevented too, if the chairmen of the banking and finance committees (both Democrats) had been doing their jobs of overseeing the financial institutions, so it's really the Democratic Party's fault this happened –– not the Bush administration's, as they want you to believe.
Sen. McCain is not getting the credit he deserves for his attempts to prevent this crisis. In 2005, and again in 2007, he submitted bills to Congress that could have prevented it, but the Democrats turned them down.
We have the best free-enterprise system in the world, but we need qualified business people to run it and, apparently, the Democrats do not measure up.
Marcy Young
Oceanside
We have gone Hollywood
Has this country gone completely Hollywood? Are we so enamored with handsome looks and a cool demeanor that we forsake a real national hero whom we know as we know our own family and trust with the same intensity?
Who is this stranger? This man from Hawaii, Indonesia, Kansas, Illinois and Kenya? This man who has had intimate dealings with Chicago politics, hate-filled religious fanatics, politically ambitious individuals with terrorist ties. This man whose wife's countenance exudes a bitterness that a labored smile cannot hide.
This man should busy himself with discovering who he really is because, if left unchecked, he, during the process of advancing his vain-glamorous plans of world domination, could take the free world down the same road as that of another tyrant whose escapades still echo in the minds of many. This man is talented and connected. He only needs that first great victory.
Ray Erler
San Marcos
Time to restore democracy to government
Letters, phone calls and e-mails were 97 percent against the bailout plan, as conceded by the recipients of these calls at most Senate/Congressional offices. Yet they, our elected senators and congressmen, disregarded the will of the people and voted instead in favor of Wall Street and big business. What is this? Do our elected members believe they know better than the large majority of rank-and-file voters? Such arrogance! ...
What happened to the belief that our government operates by the people, for the people? I'm normally a pretty law-and-order kind of a guy –– but this is beyond the pale! It's time to return the reins of government to the people and restore a system of democracy to the U.S. government! So help me God.
Robert Green
Fallbrook
Be careful whom you vote for
Have you heard the saying, "You are judged by the company you keep" and "Birds of a feather flock together"? That is why I can't vote for Barack Obama. He has involved and surrounded himself with radical American haters. He has excused William Ayers (the radical bomber) by saying that he has changed. A leopard never changes its spots.
The Obama media supporters have maliciously attacked Sarah Palin, but in the 18 months that Obama has been running for president, why haven't his records been released about his connection to ACORN and his records from Occidental College and Columbia, his Columbia thesis, Harvard grades, Selective Service registration, his law practice clients and Illinois State Senate record? Why are they hiding it? ...
Most important is the Escondido City Council race. If you don't want a sanctuary city, you must vote to re-elect Ed Gallo and Sam Abed. ...
Helen Gallardo
Escondido
Madison has strong record of service
I'm delighted to know that Evelyn Madison is a candidate for the Palomar Pomerado Health System Board of Directors. Her strong record of serving in leadership positions with a number of civic and service clubs is well-known and respected. She has also been a previous member of the PPH board, so it's not something new to her. She did a marvelous job then; she'll do it again.
I'm voting for Evelyn Madison for PPH board. Hope you will as well!
Vicki Petta
Escondido
Love gays, but support Prop. 8
I feel the need to explain to those who don't understand why "good Christians" can and do support Proposition 8 when they supposedly believe in the golden rule. Christians are, by name, followers of Jesus Christ, so they ask themselves: What would Jesus do? Would Jesus love gay people and want them to be happy? Of course. Jesus taught us to love everyone. But would Jesus, the son of God, support same-sex marriage when God specifically ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman? Of course not.
Jesus was the supreme example: He taught that we must love one another, even as we decry actions contrary to God's commandments. Do "good Christians" strive to live the Golden Rule? Of course they do. They love people who are gay and straight alike. But does that mean they should condone same-sex marriage? Of course not.
My favorite uncle was gay, and I loved him dearly. But I did not condone certain choices that he made in his life. Let's all love those around us unconditionally, even as we support the institution of marriage as God intended it to be. Vote yes on Prop. 8.
Rebecca Lund
Escondido
Marriage is not a religious issue
Recently I encountered a letter concerning Proposition 8, which I resolutely oppose, and felt compelled to reply. Yes, the First Amendment creates a separation between church and state, but marriage is not a religious issue unless we make it one. True, according to many religious beliefs, marriage is a union between a man and a woman, but what many fail to realize is that there are many within the United States who are agnostic or atheist and, thus, do not believe the same way.
Think back to the civil rights movement. Did not the Supreme Court step in and rule segregation unconstitutional in Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954? The situation with marriage between homosexuals is similar.
Because many states continue to ignore the full faith and credit clause, the government will have no choice but to step in and either 1. pass legislation forcing the states to recognize gay marriage, or 2. the Supreme Court will again have to take matters into their own hands as they did during the civil rights movement and declare the denial of full faith and credit to homosexuals to be unconstitutional.
Christina Lee
student,
Poway High School
Parents should have more rights in schools
Same-sex marriage wasn't taught in Massachusetts until it was legalized. After that, the organizations that fought to legalize it filed the following brief: From the Anti-Defamation League amicus curiae brief: "Where the right of same-sex couples to marry is protected under the constitution, it's particularly important to teach children about families with gay parents (Page 5). Specifically, the parents in this case don't have a constitutional right to override the professional pedagogical judgment of the school (Page 9). This court has recognized that a right of a parent to opt out of a lesson would fatally compromise the ability of a school to provide meaningful education, a conclusion that holds true regardless of age or the nature of their beliefs (Page 18)."
We can learn from Massachusetts. I quote ADL, "Parents ... don't have a right to override the ... school."
As a parent, it is my right to determine what is best for my child. It is my right to instill my beliefs and values to my children. Vote yes on Proposition 8 with me. Let's not give the ADL more power in schools than parents have!
Kim Hatt
Carlsbad
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Alf wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:46 AM:In her letter, Mary Holman contradicts herself.
She says "No person has the right to dictate to another who his choice of life partner should be." and then says to vote yes on Proposition 8.
Prop 8 WILL dictate that any person MUST marry a person of the opposite gender in order for the marriage to be valid and/or recognized.
If that is not dictating who, which gender, their choice of life partner should be, I don't know what is.
Vote NO on Prop 8.
Regards, Alf.
Republican Socialist wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:00 AM:Quote from Sarah Palin: "And Alaska - we're set up, unlike other states in the union, where it's collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs." (New Yorker Magazine, September 22, 2008, Interview with Philip Gourevitch in August 2008 prior to being selected as VP nominee)
The complete interview is online, on the New Yorker Magazine website and I have provided enough specifics for a Google search so simple even McCain could do it. Well, maybe.
To R Lund wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:08 AM:We don't have the guts to define marriage. God bless your gay uncle. What advice would you give to one who served as an unwitting decoy to an in & out & in & out spouse? I say let them stay out of the closet and marry or whatever. Hasen't anyone looked into the history of the Freemasons? This issue isn't new. It has just been kept under the rug. You need to feel my pain. Maybe then you will understand.
Alf wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:09 AM:A few more things about the letter from Mary Holman.
1) She says "Laws have been established to protect the legal rights of those who live in same-sex relationships (Family Code 297.5).".
"297.5 (g) No public agency in this state may discriminate against any
person or couple on the ground that the person is a registered
domestic partner rather than a spouse or that the couple are
registered domestic partners rather than spouses, except that nothing
in this section applies to modify eligibility for long-term care
plans pursuant to Chapter 15 (commencing with Section 21660) of Part
3 of Division 5 of Title 2 of the Government Code."
There is NO such stipulation relating to heterosexual marriages!
"297.5 (h) This act does not preclude any state or local agency from
exercising its regulatory authority to implement statutes providing
rights to, or imposing responsibilities upon, domestic partners."
There is NO such stipulation relating to heterosexual marriages!
She says "Tolerance of another's beliefs is a two-way street." and I agree with that.
Neither Mary Holman nor anyone else has a right to force homosexuals to have a second-class, NOT EQUAL LEGAL STATUS with their partner,
ESPECIALLY one that is not necessarily recognized in ALL states as is marriage
AND
neither me nor anyone else has a right to force heterosexuals to have a second-class, NOT EQUAL LEGAL STATUS with their partner.
Regards, Alf.
jvc wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:19 AM:Speaking of Obama,because our African-
American brethren have been so
suppressed and relegated to nothingness
due to bigotry, we cannot help notice
their prominence now and see that they are a real cool people!God Bless them!
Alf wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:22 AM:The letter from Dave Perrine illustrates the fact that he does not understand our system of government.
If 61% or 70% or 90% of the people pass a proposition that violates any part of either the California or U.S. Constitution, when it is challenged in court, it is the duty of the court to rule in favor of the Constitution.
Ruling in favor of the Constitution is the job of the Judiciary and is not judicial activism.
The "will of the people" can not violate the Constitution.
It is as plain and simple as that.
Regards, Alf.
Alf wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:50 AM:The letter from Christina Lee, a student at Poway High School, shows far more clear and rational thought,
more ability to analyze and more maturity, both in thought and written word than many who are 3 or 4 or more times her age.
I wish her well in whatever she chooses to do in life.
Regards, Alf.
Alf wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:59 AM:The attitude expressed in the letter by Rebecca Lund is typical of those who see no problem with relegating others to a legally imposed second-class status.
Cloak it in fancy words, high-sounding phrases, it is still advocating discrimination.
Vote NO on Prop 8.
Regards, Alf.
Apollo wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:27 AM:Re: Dave Perrine, Audrey Peterson and Kim Hatt (letters)
More writers join the long list of those who can't find arguments to support what is actually on the ballot with Prop 8, so have to argue against something else. In this case, they are going to argue about things that occurred in Massachusetts.
News flash: the current definition of law was decided by the Court based on the CALIFORNIA Constitution. The Court explicitly clarified that certain aspects of education and religious freedom (to discriminate) would not be impacted. Under California law. I don't know what the law is in Massachusetts. That is Massachusetts law. This is California law. Cite the basis in California law or admit you are fraudulently misrepresenting the proposition and its consequences.
Ron wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:31 AM:This is how you know that facts don't matter, when you hear a statement like this:
"SOLON" {Oct 28} @9:00 PM:
>>>ACORN is an extraordinary instrument of good for democracy.>>>
Now crrently, ACORN is under investigation in 13 different states.
ACORN voter registration practises have been investigated since 2000, with several persons being convicted, and going to jail.
This year, the Indiana secretary of state said of the 5,000 voter registrations in Lake County, Indiana. When officials started going through the ACORN registrations, the first 2,100 of the 2,100 they checked were fraudulent. Dead people, made up people, sandwich shops listed as people. The list goes on.
The Indiana Attorney General has asked for an investigation under RICO for criminal conspiracy.
But, let's just take "SOLON"'s word for it: "ACORN is an extraordinary instrument of good for democracy."
And drink some more NObama Kool-Aid.
Cheers!
Save us from ourselves wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:34 AM:Please everyone must vote for our Saviour. It is critical that we get the Messiah into the White House. I am tired of saving money and working to build my own future, I cant wait to get my share of those rich fat cats money. I am tired of paying my mortgage and Co pays for health care and my car loan and for groceries. As soon as we can get our Messiah elected he will put a stop to all this. The GOV will take over and spread the wealth around and all our lives will be better. Cant you racist right wingers see the light? I want my check from the GOV I want my free health care and house. PlEASE PLEASE everyone get out and Vote for our Messiah. Forget his complete lack of accomplishments, he is the Messiah and he is incapable of being wrong about anything. He has never done anything wrong his whole life he has never associated with anyone that was not pure and perfect like him. Forget where he was born, he was born as our savior and I cant wait for his ascendence. He will make the GOV care for us so we wont have to take care of ourselves. I am doing my part are you?
James wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:45 AM:Our Government is no longer "Of the people by the people and for the people" It is now all about career politicians who want to keep and increase their own power and wealth. It dosent matter if they have a D or a R after their name they are not doing the peoples work. They are all an embarrassment including the two stooges running for President. The sad thing is we will keep sending these same failed politicians to the state house and to Washington simply because "I always vote D or R" We seem to have stopped thinking for ourselves and just drink whatever color kool aide fits the letter behind a popular persons name. LEts face facts all of these politicians are lying to us yet we dont hold them accoutable we just keep sending them back. At the same time we believe everything they tell us and then attack the other side, becuase "our" guy would never lie" Yeah right. We assisted in the setting aside of our constitution and until we wake up and get rid of the current crop in D.C. we will never again have a Government "Of the people by the people and for the people".
jvc wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:53 AM:What is the number one political issue in America today? It is the issue that
America will no longer accept an America of the privilege!
Wanda wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:55 AM:Ray Erler's letter was a real hoot. I especially liked the "...vain-glamorous plans of world domination..." part.
Ray could really use a gift certificate for CLUES R US.
Vista Granny wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:17 AM:The same old arguments over and over. I'll be glad when the election is over. You know? It's frightening what some "Christians" believe will happen if Prop 8 fails. And, I too, think you should all remember that an IQ of 100 is the mean -- 50% of our voters have an IQ of less than that -- and no education!! Help!
Wanda wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:42 AM:Vista Granny, at 7:17 AM, quips: "I'll be glad when the election is over."
I'll miss the hysteria.
jvc wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:43 AM:Gov. Paterson of New York is asking the Feds to increase food stamps for the state as foods stamps adds to an improved economy and thus will help with the state's deficit! Our governor needs to do the same!
Sirsanto wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:51 AM:"Marriage, by definition, is the sacred union between a man and a woman," says Mary Holman. My dictionary says nothing about "sacred" but uses the word "formal". Maybe she's using "God's Dictionary" of which I have no access since I choose not to believe in the fairy tale. I do, however, believe in the inherent goodness of people and that we shouldn't deprive them of equal rights. Also, the teachers that complain about their union's support of Prop. 8...you may opt out of having your dues go to CTA/NEA PACs so stop your whining. If you are too ignorant of your own organization's policies why should we trust you to make sound political decision? I voted Yes on Prop. 8. Thanks CTA for your support.
OBAMACAN wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:54 AM:Letters from Vincent Morrison, Marcy Young and Ray Erlerare just more of the same.
Name-calling ("socialist" "snake oil salesman" "handsome stranger" - emphasizing differentness, nah, couldn't be racist) and misrepresentations of Obama's views on taxes and the economy while still completely unable to find a single positive reason to vote for their alternative.
Even McCain, whose pit bull attack ads are now running 100% negative, can't offer any positive reason why anyone would want to vote for him, and Palin is busy running for the Presidency in 2012 and is sabotaging 2008 so she won't have to challenge an incumbent. Barracuda indeed!
Let's see.
Can't find any legitimate criticism of one candidate.
Can't find any positive reasons to support their own candidate.
Choice is easy! Obama/Biden 08!
Gotta Wonder wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:56 AM:Save us from ourselves[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:34 AM: YES OH YES. Please get out and vote for Barak. Vote early and vote often. Obama comes. Thanks for your daily macro.
To Rebecca wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:17 AM:Rebecca Lund says Christians live by the Golden Rule, except when it comes to doing unto others who love and are committed to one another. Why isn't Rebecca out there crusading against the countless dysfunctional and abusive heterosexual marriages? I guess this is none of her business (and not a social concern) as long as each person has different plumbing. Apparently Rebecca is more concerned about what her neighbors do in their bedrooms than by their love and respect of one another. Saying you live by the Golden Rule, is different than actually living by the Golden Rule. Yes on 8 is a vote for religious intolerance and hypocrisy.
He nailed it again wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:23 AM:I see that General Petraeus is calling for negotiation with the Taliban, to work out possible political solutions to the mess in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Finally, the good general is seeing the wisdom of Obama's approach to foreign policy. As with Iraq, Obama is getting Afghanistan right. Amazing what happens when a leader uses his brains instead of just posturing with his guts. Good for Petraeus. He may finally find a path towards progress. I don't know what "Bomb Bomb" McCain and "God told me" Palin think about Petraeus' idea. But I hope that we elect a President next week that will continue to get it right because he actually thinks long and hard about complicated matters rather than what sounds macho in a sound bite. In other words, let's elect a President that lives in the real world. A change we need.
Parent wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:23 AM:Eugene and Mary Cook are not alone in their opposition to CTA union dues being spent on non-educational political issues. If you are outraged enough, resign from CTA and demand a refund of that portion of your dues that went to those purposes. That should net you a refund of at least $300 each.
Jack_D wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:28 AM:Rebecca Lund said: "But would Jesus, the son of God, support same-sex marriage when God specifically ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman." I have only question for Ms.Lund: How do you know that to be true? Has he (or she) spoke to you on the subject? If not, whom did he tell? I'm just curious.
Jack_D wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:32 AM:I can't disagree with a single word Robert Green wrote in his letter. What has happened to our democracy?
Confused wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:32 AM:Mary Holman says in her letter "No person has the right to dictate to another who his choice of life partner should be." Isn't that exactly what a yes vote on Prop. 8 does? Yes, Mary " Tolerance of another's beliefs is a two-way street." You should follow your own tenets on this issue.
Yes wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:35 AM:The judges did their job in interpreting the Constitution, according to their vision of what a marriage is. Now the people must do their job and amend the Constitution such that no ambiguities remain in the definition of a marriage.
I agree wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:39 AM:What a beautiful and true letter written by Nora Klynjan. I agree 110% Bravo!!!! Vote No on Hate I mean 8.
Heed the Wise Words wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:48 AM:of Madeline Steeg. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. I appreciate you taking the time to write a letter to enlighten me. I am not undecided and I am not ignorant to the crimes of our current President! I will vote for Barack Obama on Nov. 4. Madeline I give you props for your truthful and powerful letter.
Gotta Wonder wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:50 AM:Yes[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:35 AM: The judges were not interpreting marriage. They were interpreting equal protection clause.
Vista Granny wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:56 AM:We should have an amendment to the Constitution of California saying that the "people" can no longer amend the Constitution through Propositions. In fact, the whole idea of the "people", meaning the majority, making laws is bad because they go too far! We have a representative government,and a CONSTITUTION and we are NOT A DEMOCRACY.
Blessings... wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:56 AM:May God bless each and everyone of you, even those of you who choose to not believe in him. Fortunately for you, he still believes in you!
Bob wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:56 AM:Well, Jack_D, at 8:32 AM, one reason to disagree with Robert Green is the U.S. of A. is a Republic not a Democracy.
Fool Me once Shame on you fool me twice shame on me wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:00 AM:Helen Gallardo is right "Birds of a feather flock together". That is exactly why I will cast my vote for Barack Obama for President and Olga Diaz for Escondido City Council. The last thing we need is another 4 years of Bush and when I see McCain I see Bush!!! I made the mistake of voting for Bush I won't make that mistake again.
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:11 AM:Bravo James @ 6:45 AM, I could not have said it better. Until the D's and R's wake up we will continue on the same path that we are currently on.
Peace
Not Messiah wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:18 AM:I voted for Obama, as did all my family and friends, some of whom live in swing states. The reason we did is not because he is the Messiah. It's because he's simply a huge improvement. Simple.
Hey Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:19 AM:You asked the other day for my take on the qualifications of Obama and Palin, and I gave you an honest answer. Anything you'd like to say about my opinion of these two and their character? Just curious.
thanks again Asteroid wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:21 AM:I just wanted to thank Asteroid one more time for his stance against Prop 8. I know he didn't say this explicitly, but when I suggested that he opposed gays having equal rights under the law, he certainly seemed to strongly deny this. So I can only assume he opposed that measure. As I said then, I am happy that Mike proved me wrong about him. Thanks, Mike, both for setting me straight and for your anti-8 vote.
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:22 AM:Come on Vista Granny @ 8:56 AM you can't be serious. Take away our freedom to vote directly on laws? Not everyone is as partisan and evil spirited as demonstrated this blog daily. Do you trust polititians to get everything right more than citizens like you and I?
to Fool Me wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:25 AM:Good post at 9:00. I agree with you completely about Obama and Diaz. Both will be a great improvement over the status quo that we've all lived with and resented. On the national scene, I am sick and tired of being manipulated by fear and hatred, especially of my fellow Americans. The Rove-style politics of Bush and McCain and Cheney and Palin have ruined this country. The first word in the Constitution is "We". The GOP lives by "Them!". Enough of that. The race in Escondido is simply a small, local version of the same sentiments. Obama/Olga!!
Gotta Wonder wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:28 AM:"Marriage, by definition, is the sacred union between a man and a woman," Let us know where we can find that defintion? I do not see it in codified law.
MarkyMarx wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:43 AM:JVC is on a roll today.....right on bro! With peeps like you and Chris we will soon all be enjoying the bennys of all out Marxism....so cool. Powr to the peeps!
MarkyMarx wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:45 AM:Vista Granny
[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:56 AM:
Chill, Granny. All those oppressive and disciminatory propositions will be overturned in the liberal courts anyhow. Power to the peeps!
help me raoul wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:54 AM:Yikes! Raoul, I just came across this item from the AP, QUOTE: WASHINGTON (AP) -- Barack Obama leads in four states won by President Bush in 2004 and is essentially tied in two other Republican states, according to new AP-GfK battleground polling that suggests most roads to victory are closed to John McCain. Obama could win big. ENDQUOTE Raoul, this scares me. It says Obama might not just win, but might win BIG. I know that you, among all of us, understand these matters the most. Please, help me out. How is this article wrong? Please answer soon: I'm really nervous about this. I don't want the US to become a Stalinist nation. Thanks!
Trailblazer wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:56 AM:To: Keep teenagers safe; vote no on Prop. 4
You say there are no more homes for unwed mothers, apparently you haven't "Googled" for information on this subject.
We ran a home for women who were victims of domestic violence . . . from their husbands and boyfriends. They came with children in tow and tragic stories.
Violence toward unwed mothers by parents is just part of the entire abuse toward women. Intervention, not secret abortions guaranteed by law, is a better solution.
Education? Kids know the facts of life early on, much of this is due to media saturation of sex without consequences.
A loving home, a two parent home where both mother and father are present and engaged with their children's lives is becoming something to be mocked rather than applauded. Old fashioned values are for 'back in the day' . . . so turns the world.
Alf wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:56 AM:The letter from Dave Perrine shows that he has not read the California Supreme Court Decision.
Churches are shielded from lawsuits for refusing to marry homosexuals.
He seems to forget that California operates under a different state Constitution than Massachusetts.
Listening to the rhetoric, the lies and then regurgitating them instead of getting the facts seems to be a common theme among the yes on 8 people.
Vote NO on Prop 8.
Regards, Alf
Gee Wanda wrote on Oct 29, 2008 10:02 AM:You seem like such an intellectual... and such a nice person. Your tolerance for opposing views is certainly exemplary.
Have a nice day.
Reardon wrote on Oct 29, 2008 10:28 AM:If Vista Granny will contact me through Alf, I will calculate the taxes on her property as they would be if Prop. 13 had not passed. Then she can send in that annual payment and smile.
A quarter of a million dollars wrote on Oct 29, 2008 10:47 AM:Why did 4 candidates need over a quarter of a million dollars to run their campaigns for city council in Carlsbad? Plastic signs and glossy mailers are environmentally reckless relics of pre-internet days. Using websites to explain your views is cheaper, can provide details, can be updated, and can even be interactive. Would also free candidates from special interests because they wouldn't need such bloated budgets. Remind them that they work for the citizens!
Looking Glass wrote on Oct 29, 2008 10:48 AM:James @ 6:45 AM - I totally agree with you. That is why no change is going to happen until a solid third party takes charge. I wonder how many voters will go 3rd party in this election?
To Vince Morrison wrote on Oct 29, 2008 10:56 AM:So "socialism," as practiced by Democratic lawmakers, got us into the subprime mortgage meltdown mess. But consider that "socialism," as advocated by that paragon of conservative "Republican" values in the Oval Office, is also the way out. With thousands of people being kicked out out their homes while the Wall Street rascals who signed them up for mortgages they couldn't afford are being bailed out by us taxpayers, I'd say socialism is paying off handsomely for the wealthy ruling elite of this country, wouldn't you?
Prop Ts hidden potential for tax increases wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:00 AM:Thank you Ms. O'Brien to calling attention to the underlying tax increases coming our way if Proposition T gets approved. You actually looked at your tax assessment, which would never occur to most of us. Wow! This just proves how deceptively written this proposition is and how much BS the Esco taxpayers are being fed by the "Citizens for Escondido Schools" mailers. No one in their right mind would vote for this bond. NO on T!
Ms M wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:03 AM:For all of you who accuse the libs of downing Palin and wrongly accusing her of not being qualified - the following is from the McCain camp:
.....I'm sympathetic to Eskew and Wallace, and not just because they're decent people. They've held their tongue from leaking what a couple of McCain higher-ups have told me--namely, that Palin simply knew nothing about national and international issues. Which meant, as one such adviser said to me: "Letting Sarah be Sarah may not be such a good thing." It's a grim binary choice, but apparently it came down to whether to make Palin look like a scripted robot or an unscripted ignoramus. I was told that Palin chafed at being defined by her discomfiting performances in the Couric, Charlie Gibson, and Sean Hannity interviews. She wanted to get back out there and do more. Well, if you're Eskew and Wallace, what do you say to that? Your responsibility isn't the care and feeding of Sarah Palin's ego; it's the furtherance of John McCain's quest for the presidency.
Draper also reports that McCain snubbed Palin during a long ride on the Straight Talk Express.....Oh my!
Asteroid to jvc wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:11 AM:Wow, you’re on a roll today. Do your parents know where you are and what you’re doing? Shouldn’t you be in school studying subjects like history and economics? Somebody call the truant officer; save this kid!
OSIDE POLITICS wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:12 AM:I can't believe the amount of money being spent on the Oceanside City Council race. The tv ads are a first in our history. So 1000 tv ads were purchased for $27,000 ($20,000 of which came from California DEVELOPERS.) Do the math. It doesn't add up. $27 per 30 second spot? I don't think so. There is a lot more money yet to be recorded.
Why all of the mailers, tv ad, and lies? Here's the bottom line. CA DEVELOPERS have outspent all other special interests easily 3 to 1. They OWN Chavez, Feller & Gibson. Chavez, Feller and Gibson want to eliminate the public POLICE and FIRE UNIONs and hope to privatize to the lowest bidder. the FIRE/POLICE have endorsed and spent $$$ to endorse the three candidates (Lowery, Sanchez & Wood) that want to keep public police and fire. You choose.
I personally want to keep public police and fire and feel that they have done a good job. I don't want to REZONE Oceanside and sell it off to the highest bidder. I don't think it serves the community nor does it develop strategically. The only person I can be sure of at this moment is LOWERY. He has received the least special interest money ($1000 per FPPC filing) and seems to be the true independent in our local election. VOTE!
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:17 AM:Hey Karl @ 9:19 AM:
I do remember that I was impressed with the reply but do not remember specifics. Hell, the only thing I can remember more than 5 minutes these days are my tee times.
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:22 AM:Reardon @ 10:28 AM
I paid 165K in 1996 for my place. How much would my taxes be currently without Prop 13? I think I currently pay about 2K a year.
Alf wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:22 AM:Well, "Reardon" at 10:28AM,
I don't know "Vista Granny".
How are you going to figure taxes when BOTH the assessed valuation AND the tax rate were being changed?
Enquiring Alfs want to know.
Regards, Alf.
To Blessings wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:24 AM:May I ask you to kindly take your discussion to the Faith and Values Letters page? It is wise to remember that all paths to the Creator are valid and we have no right to force our personal beliefs on others. Your religious belief discussion does not belong here in a secular letters thread.
I send you Brightest Blessings from Goddess.
MarkyMarx to granny wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:26 AM:Vista Granny
[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:56 AM:
Don’t worry granny. Our liberal courts will overturn the will of the peeps evrytime. Right on!
Sally wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:30 AM:Just because two men have a close friendship doesn't mean they have a marriage. Up until now, they've been saying what they do in the privacy of their bedroom is their own business. And they wanted tolerance. Okay, fine, we've stayed out of their bedroom. Now they want acceptance for their private behavior by declaring it legally equivalent to marriage. It's not the same.
ACORN wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:33 AM:Today, ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) announced that the last of three politically-motivated lawsuits filed against the group in the wake of its successful 2004 voter outreach drive has been “dismissed with prejudice.” Each of the three cases (two in Florida and one in Ohio) were brought by partisan law firms based on unfounded allegations of “voter fraud” against the organization – and all three cases have been dismissed.
Reardon wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:37 AM:Alf: Those home bought pre-Prop. 13 were locked at the passing date valuation, and with 2% per year increase.
Those home bought post Prop 13 were locked at their sale price valuation, plus 2% per year.
Valuation never changes post sale, absent major remodel, except at a rate of 2% per year -- so if you bought in 2001 and in 2004 the home prices went up 35%. your taxes increased -- 2%.
(None of this addresses bonds, or Special Districts like lighting districts. Check your tax bill and see all of the bond issues you are paying for -- although they are collected on your tax bill, they are not "taxes." That is how Bond issues can claim they do not raise your "taxes" -- even though they are collected on your "tax" bill -- and you write just one check. It is prestidigitation.)
To Quarter Million wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:43 AM:Two Carlsbad candidates didn't take money from anyone and didn't use the plastic signs. One of them (Rodgers) has a website with links to all kinds of articles and sites covering the election. She's a longshot but her energy and bold independent voice appeal to me. The youngest elected official in California on Mayor Bud Lewis' City Council is also an irresistible image.
CANOBAMA wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:44 AM:Some of you Obama supporters weren't born in 1974 when Gerald R. Ford said, "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have". With the prospect of change (one party rule and bigger government), be careful what you wish for.
Wont Happen wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:59 AM:To Blessings
[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:24 AM: kindly take your discussion to the Faith and Values Letters page...Your religious belief discussion does not belong here in a secular letters thread.
I send you Brightest Blessings from Goddess.
Well to Blessings at 11:24, Yes there is a Faith and Values Letters page, however as you know, All topics are fair game here, You're distain of the topic does not make it of limits here. Please do not practice your selective discrimination on this thread.
sdraoul wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:00 PM:A week ago, Obama led in the Rassmussen and Gallup Daily Tracking polls by as much as 11 points. These polls are taken every day unlike the others that are taken on one , two or three days. Those aren’t rolling polls that are static polls, which are worthless.
Today both polls have Obama leading by 3 points and that's within the margin of error.
That means a statistical tie and ties, children, go to the challenger. McCain is the challenger for all intents and purposes.
Will McCain's rush closing carry the day? We'll find out in six days.
whaassa up wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:01 PM:To Asteroid: Is that it? Just a quick personal insult to JFV? Everyone knows that you are here for ego gratification.
It just shows it does not take much to effect the inflation if your mania. LOL
QOUTE wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:05 PM:"Remember what Thomas Jefferson said: 'A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have.' Think about this when you vote."
Gotta Ask wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:09 PM:To Blessings
[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:24 AM: It is wise to remember that all paths to the Creator are valid .
Are you willing to bet you Life/future on it?
ACORN wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:12 PM:In order to help 1.3 million people register to vote, we hired more than 13,000 registration assistance workers. As with any business or agency that operates at this scale, there are always some people who want to get paid without really doing the job, or who aim to defraud their employer. Any large department store will have some workers who shoplift.
ACORN wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:13 PM:#
Any large voter registration operation will have a small percentage of workers who turn in bogus registration forms. Their goal clearly is not to cast a fraudulent vote. It is simply to defraud their employer, ACORN, by getting a paycheck without earning it. ACORN is the victim of this fraud – not the perpetrator.
#
In nearly every case that has been reported , it was ACORN that discovered the bad forms, and called them to the attention of election authorities, putting the forms in a package that identified them in writing as suspicious, encouraging election officials to investigate, and offering to help with prosecutions. We are required by law to turn in all forms, but instead of just turning them in and figuring that it is the responsibility of the board of elections to figure out which are valid, we spend millions of dollars verifying that forms are valid, and then separate out those that are suspicious.
sdraoul wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:14 PM:In case no one has noticed, the Associated Press (AP), the New York Times, Time Magazine, the Los Angeles Times; MSNBC and NBC are performing (not objectively reporting) as Obama campaigners.
Non-profit journalism organizations are reporting that news coverage of the campaign is highly slanted by these organizations in Obama's favor.
Those who even quote these publications and networks -- except in jest -- need to educate themselves by reading at least a dozen other publications. If they don't and they rely on the noted organizations they should wash it down with Kool-Aid.
Or they should get all their information from the Comedy Channel and SNL.
ACORN wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:14 PM:This has nothing to do with “voter fraud” – nothing at all to do with anyone trying to cast an extra vote. There has never been a single reported instance in which bogus registration forms have led to anyone voting improperly. To do that, they would have to show up at the polls, prove their identity as all first-time registrants must, and risk jail. The people who turned in these forms did so not because they wanted an extra vote, but because they didn’t care enough to make sure eligible people got to vote at all.
Looking Glass wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:14 PM:Looks like i'm not the only one who is sick of the election. You know, if there was a bill introduced to shorten the elections, I would be all for it!
ACORN wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:16 PM:When a department store calls the police to report a shoplifting employee, no one says the department store is guilty of consumer fraud. But for some reason, when ACORN turns voter registration workers over to the authorities for filling out bogus forms, it gets accused of “voter fraud.” This is a classic case of blaming the victim; indeed, these charges are outrageous, libelous, and often politically motivated.
Try this... wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:16 PM:I'd really like to try a social experiment and see what happens: 1) Divorce to become illegal and unobtainable except under a very few extreme circumstances. Such as violence or incest against a minor child, but not against an adult spouse. 1a) All divorced persons ostracized by society and their church for not following through on their marriage vows in order to protect marriage. The goal would be to have less than 10% of all marriages failing as under current standards. 2) All pregnant unmarried females to be ostracized by family, society and their church in order to support morality and character. 3) All churches required to offer social services and relief to children of unmarried persons, children of divorce and those orphaned by death of a parent or abandonment regardless of the child's religious affiliation. 4)All families practicing "Life" over "Choice" must keep the resulting child of a live birth within the family unit. Such children would not be available for adoption outside of the family unit. Let's just see how long it will take for the defenders of marriage, the definers of morality and character to fix the problem of sinfulness and immorality leading to the downfall of marriage and the destruction of the family as we know it.
jvc wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:17 PM:More than this kid needs to study economics with a state deficit of $17
billion!
ACORN wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:18 PM:The goals of the people orchestrating these attacks are to distract ACORN from helping people vote and to justify massive voter suppression. That’s the real voter fraud; the noise about a small fraction of the forms ACORN has turned in is meant to get the press and public take their eyes off the real threat, while those hurling the charges are stealing people’s right to vote in broad daylight. They have already tried to prevent Ohio from registering voters at its early voting sites. In Michigan, they planned to use foreclosure notices to challenge thousands of voters. In Indiana, Republican officials have gone to court to try to block early voting in Lake County, Indiana And if this year is like past years, they are preparing to use this so-called voter fraud to justify massive challenges to voters in minority precincts on Election Day
ACORN wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:19 PM:#
Similar attacks were launched against ACORN and other voter registration organizations in 2004 and 2006. The bogus charges were at the heart of the U.S. Attorney-gate scandal that led to the resignations of Karl Rove, Attorney General Ablerto Gonzales and other top Justice Department Officials. It turned out that it was the charges that were fraudulent, and that they were part of a systematic partisan agenda of voter suppression.
1.
Republican former US Attorney in New Mexico, David Iglesias said he was fired because he refused White House pressure to charge ACORN with voter fraud he knew it had not committed.
2.
US attorney, Bradley Schlozman, who did politicize prosecutions against former ACORN canvassers was forced to acknowledge under cross examination by the Senate Judiciary Committee that ACORN was the victim of fraud by its employees and ACORN had caught the employees and had identified them to law enforcement.
PROP 8 ISNT WORTH ALL THE FUSS wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:25 PM:With all of the serious issues going on today, why do so many people put their energy into this silly proposition.
There are about 20 million Illegal Aliens ready to call California their new home over the next few years, and more people are worried about "Adam and Steve"
At least with Adam and Steve getting married we don't have to worry about California's Population explosion!
R/ Skip
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:47 PM:I'm with you "Looking Glass @ 12:14 PM. Maybe Vista Granny will help us start a petition to get a proposition on the ballot.
Reardon wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:54 PM:Karl: I am researching the % of home price increases in San Diego County, but I have built an Excel spreadsheet to answer that question.
(Not knowing where you live it is impossible to get a true number without your address) but you know your neighborhood better than I. I used Fallbrook historical prices.)
Here is the clue -- if you paid $165,000 in 1996, then you are currently paying approximately $2,084.864 based on the equivalent 2003 home prices, the level on average that San Diego County homes have dropped to, but at the peak two years ago you should have been paying as much as $2256.72
If we had not had Prop. 13 limit on tax increases, AND ASSUMING THE TAX ASSESSOR USED A STRAIGHT LINE BASED SOLELY ON YOUR SALES PRICE, you would today be paying, today a MINIMUM of $3,639.60.
(Of course without Prop. 13 you would not be paying based on sales price, but on annual tax assessor “valuations” based on subjective analysis, and on a varying tax rate depending on Sacramento politicians – who knows what THAT would be, so my analysis is a BEST CASE SCENARIO FOR KARL!)
So, in your case (and using the median home price increase in Fallbrook from 1996 to 2003) as a result of the 2% limitation on INCREASES, you are saving AT LEAST $1,555 a year.
Congratulations! (But, you may mail a check to Sacramento with no penalty for the amount you are saving! There is no law forbidding you, or Vista Granny, or even jvc from doing just that! Whatever makes you happy!)
Good Point Skip wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:56 PM:There will be more room for more immigrants from the South!
Gotta Wonder wrote on Oct 29, 2008 1:06 PM:sdraoul[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:00 PM:
Raoul is correct today. Obama was right to tell his supporters not to take anything for granted. It's any body's ball game. See you in the 9th.
Reardon wrote on Oct 29, 2008 1:39 PM:I would be interested in the liberal view of the Employee Free Choice Act, and if the individual liberals on this Blog support it?
Alf wrote on Oct 29, 2008 2:00 PM:Well, "sdraoul" at 12:00PM,
when McGWB loses -
I suggest some BBQ sauce on your crow, a side of smashed ego,
a bottle of good chianti and
a VERY large slice of humble pie for dessert.
BTW, and profuse apologies to all for all your snide, undeserved insults.
That is,
IF you have any honor.
If I am wrong, I will apologize to you after the same dinner.
Regards, Alf.
Spending limits wrote on Oct 29, 2008 2:18 PM:Carlsbad had 28 applicants for 1 council seat vacated last year. This year we only have 6 candidates to choose from for 2 seats. Now that the campaign has exceeded a quarter Million dollars, will anyone independent run for Mayor or the 2 other council seats in 2010? Shorter campaign + spending limits + no signs = More candidates who are independent
Focal Point wrote on Oct 29, 2008 2:27 PM:QOUTE[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:05 PM:
Government can now do that thanks to Bush with his destruciton of the Constitution.
The next President will have the same power and tools regardless of whom is elected.
re prop 8 wrote on Oct 29, 2008 2:55 PM:For most people, the poster at 12:25 would be correct, or so you'd think. Homosexuals probably have a right to think prop 8 is quite a big deal. But for the rest of the population, whether you support it or not, I'd think it wasn't much of an item. Looking at the money that's gone into the Yes on 8 campaign, however, you'd think it was the biggest thing going. It appears that one thing that really rallies a lot of people in North County, gets them honking in support of sign-holders, waving, and all the rest is a common hatred of homosexuality. Reminds me of the deep south in the 1950s. "It's not natural!" "What's next?" "God condemns this": all the same slogans we heard in Little Rock and Selma back in the day. And like then, these are also self-appointed "Christians". Makes you wonder.
To Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:10 PM:"Karl
[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:17 AM:Hey Karl @ 9:19 AM:
I do remember that I was impressed with the reply but do not remember specifics. Hell, the only thing I can remember more than 5 minutes these days are my tee times."
I want to say this as nicely as possible. When you ask a question and someone takes the time to answer, an acknowledgement is in order. If you can remember your tee times, you can remember to be polite. Thank you.
To Gotta Know wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:15 PM:"Gotta Ask
[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:09 PM:To Blessings
[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:24 AM: It is wise to remember that all paths to the Creator are valid .
Are you willing to bet you Life/future on it?"
Yup.
To Skip wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:19 PM:You know of course, with the karma you are building up, that you will come back in your next life as a gay man? That may be the only way you learn compassion for those who are different than you. See ya then!
To Reardon wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:21 PM:I would actually be more interested in giving you my liberal opinion if I didn't already know that you are just looking for ways to make fun of it. The Limbaugh position yesterday from you just crushed any credibility you had in my eyes.
Raoul is Right wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:22 PM:It ain't over 'til the Fat Lady Sings.
~ an Obama Supporter
Hey Gary Myers wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:22 PM:Waco wasnt a message of fear?
Clinton used all those same tactics and so do dems except they specialize in class warfare too.
Fear of the GOP policies.
Given this is a global economic meltdown, what evidence does anyone have that this is all Bush?
Comparing Bush to any dictator is doing pretty much what you accuse Bush of doing.
Spreading fear.
What hpocritical talk from the tolerant left.
What a joke!
Comparing Bush and McCain to dictators makes you look extreme and ignorant as well as hypocrtitical.
All politicians prey on emotion to sway public opinion.
What dfo you call references to 1929?
That isnt optimism my friend and it is unpatriotic as that kind of rhetoric can erode the confidence needed to get out of our financial mess.
Talk like that is unpatriotic.
The last bogus stage wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:36 PM:In their desperation, the GOP's latest is to hammer the idea into our heads that Obama is a socialist, or that he would turn us into a socialist state. Here's what the New Yorker points out about this absurd claim, QUOTE The Republican argument of the moment seems to be that the difference between capitalism and socialism corresponds to the difference between a top marginal income-tax rate of 35 per cent and a top marginal income-tax rate of 39.6 per cent. The latter is what it would be under Obama's proposal, what it was under President Clinton, and, for that matter, what it will be after 2010 if President Bush's tax cuts expire on schedule ENDQUOTE Folks, for that 4.6% of tax money, the wealthiest in the nation would try to sell you the idea that Obama is a socialist, just to frighten you with a word that is meaningless in this discussion. They would say that Obama is a murderer if they thought they could get away with it (heck, they already try to claim he's the "pal of domestic terrorists"). Can't you understand? The GOP lies, and lies, and lies. They don't care about anything but winning and have nothing but contempt for the American citizen. It's up to us to tell them with our ballots what we think of their insults to our intelligence. It's up to you. You.
OBSERVATION wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:53 PM:Obama has 23 states and the District of Columbia, offering 286 votes, in his column or leaning his way, while Republican McCain has 21 states with 163 votes. A half dozen offering 89 votes — Florida, Indiana, Missouri, North Carolina, Nevada and Ohio — remain up for grabs. President Bush won all six in 2004, and they are where the race is primarily being contested in the homestretch.
Reardon wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:07 PM:To To Reardon" Since I am an Atheist, who favors abortion rights, I doubt that Rush would claim me although we may have some economic positions in common.
You would not want to be specific, would you?
Reardon wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:10 PM:Karl: I have tried to post twice with an answer, and backup, but the answer is that you are saving a MINIMUM of $1,555 a year.
HUH wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:22 PM:Sarah Palin is not fat and she sure ain't no lady..do we know what song she plans to sing?..a sad one, no doubt.
The Real Acorn wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:26 PM:Submit 1:56 p.m.; edit & resubmit 4:25 p.m.
The real ACORN complies with all legal requirements, such as the mandate that we turn in every ballot application, even if it is in the name of something highly suspicious like Mickey Mouse.
They do, however, separate them into three separate piles: one for those that appear to be good but still need to be verified, one for those that seem mostly good but have some required spaces left blank and can be fixed, and one for those that look highly suspicious and probably fraudulent. They do turn them all in, but make it as easy as possible to verify those that are valid and reject those that are not.
And as for candidates, many of at the real Acron really appreciate that John McCain came as the KEYNOTE SPEAKER for the February 2006 conference and how he praised Acorn's work so highly, and wonder why he tries to link his opponent to our exemplary community organization. Why would he want all the credit for our good eforts to go to the one running against him?
Maybe it is the political equivalent of a death wish.
to The last bogus stage wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:39 PM:Both parties lie and lie and lie. If you had been paying attention during the campaigns you would already know that.
But good luck to you believing that Obama will work for you. I hope, for your sake, you're one of his beneficiaries.
tjefferson wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:41 PM:To QOUTE at 12:05
Thomas Jefferson did not say "a government big enough to give you what you want is strong enough to take everything you have." This is from Gerald Ford and sometimes wrongly attributed to Barry Goldwater. The syntax of the quote is nothing like Jefferson's. Misquoting the founding fathers is typical of neo-cons. It's one symptom of their culture of dishonesty.
To Reardon wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:43 PM:You'll have to go back and reread yesterday's posts. I have already been specific.
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:45 PM:Thanks Reardon @ 12:54 PM, I guesstimated 5Kto 6K because I live on a private golf course south of Fallbrook and North of Rancho Bernardo. when home prices were going up weekly comps like mine went for 650K. It didn't make much difference to me because I'm in my last home and my son will inherit it someday. Without Prop 13 I'd be screwed and no there won't be any check/s going to Sacramento from this household anytime soon.
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:51 PM:My apologies To Karl @ 3:10 PM if I hurt your feelings, I jump in and out of this board for the entertainment value. I owe this board nothing. If polite was a requirement, this board would be deserted.
If wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:54 PM:Should McCain/Palin lose next week, I will be extremely curious about what happens to Palin. It seems from the reports that she sees herself as the leadership of the Republican party, aiming at 2012. Do Republicans feel that way? It would shock me, frankly. I could see her going back to Anchorage and being forgotten forever. Once she is not needed by the RNC, having proven herself a dud in this election, and a rogue dud at that, I suspect that outside her radical base, she doesn't have many friends among Republicans. Some will be sure she cost McCain the election. Others will laugh at her arrogance, at her thinking that she really was chosen for noble, and not cynical, reasons. Should be an entertainint denoument to the election, should McCain lose. What do you folks think? Will she become a rising Republican star, or will her 15 minutes of fame be over?
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 4:58 PM:One more thing To Karl @ 3:10 PM, a lot of folks my age have memory problems and tend to remember important things more than trivial things. My golf game is much more important to me than this board is.
Bob wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:01 PM:Regarding sdraoul's 12:14 PM post, it's important to remember that meteorologists don't actually create the weather.
Apollo wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:09 PM:Re: Reardon (9:19 a.m. today, in yesterday's blogs)
Reardon provides a simplistic solution for how to deal with the fact that, as the legacy of slavery, some people are born with enormous wealth and advantage as their inheritance passed down to them of wealth produced by the hands and sweat of slaves taken by force, with no contract or consent, while others, the heirs of those who created that wealth, are born to broken families, poverty and doors of opportunity closed to them in education and employment.
Reardon's simplistic solution (copied verbatim):
"Treat all individuals equally under the law.
The proper response to slavery was to end it, and provide immediate restitution.
That the then existing government failed to properly recompense the injured does not continue to follow 150 years later unto the seventh and later generations."
Forget about seven generations, Reardon. Many of the blacks living today grew up with the doors of opportunity closed to them by those who inherited the wealth created by their forebears. We're talking about the first generation. Do you at least understand how some might feel there is a role for public policy to even the playing field?
And what about your phony "seven generations"?
There are ships that were sunk prior to the Civil War carrying treasures and valuables. Do you understand, Reardon, that when divers find those sites, the insurance carriers who paid losses on the marine cargo, thus gained salvage and subrogation rights, claim the rights of salvage, even though it may be 150 years ago, and those claims are upheld today?
Now maybe you don't agree with those laws, Reardon, but can you at least understand why some people are suspicious when corporate interests, such as salvage and subrogation, are indeed protected for lo those seven generations of which you speak, while the interests of the low and humble whose sweat created the wealth of the South, are dismissed when the remnants of that suffering remain unto the present generation?
Can you at least understand why some people do see this pesky "nuance"?
The last bogus stage wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:14 PM:I'd gladly make a list of the lies of Obama and put them up against the lies of McCain and Palin. Anyday! But I want to say one more thing: I don't believe your premise that a Presidential election is simply about being a "beneficiary". For example, polls around the world show that people of other countries in every continent overwhelmingly hope Obama wins. The US will, obviously, become a partner in the world of nations again if he wins. You and I are both beneficiaries of that, whether you want to admit it or not. Another example: it has become clear to most people that Obama's approach to the "war on terror" is the right approach. Even General Petraeus is saying that a political solution via talks with the Taliban is the way to go. So here too, Obama is most likely to help the US avoid bogus wars and win the real ones. You and I are both "beneficiaries" of that, unless you are simply a war monger. One more: Obama has displayed more intelligence, judgment, and rationality in the debates and in his entire approach to the campaign than McCain (let alone Palin) are capable of dreaming of. I don't know about you, but I believe that the country and the world needs a President with these traits much more than it needs another 4 years of posturing macho oversimplicity. Here too, I think you and I are both beneficiaries of an Obama win. Not a messiah, just a way better candidate. I haven't bothered to look up whether I'd make or lose a few bucks to taxes. I'm at an income where it could go either way and not be a big deal either way. And those few bucks, compared to the other benefits, just don't mean that much to me. Maybe you don't grasp this kind of thinking.
to tjefferson wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:27 PM:You make an important point. The conservatives here will point to some lie or other misdeed by a Democrat and say, "See? They're all liars too!" But that's just another bogus claim. Fact is, and you can prove it just by reading the usual conservative posters here like Ron or raoul, they lie (by omission and comission) almost constantly, about almost everything. The GOP's traditional philosophy, of self-reliance and caution about change that is too radical, is in many ways admirable. This has nothing to do with the yahoos that call themselves conservatives here. This group is fiercely anti-democratic, striving with almost each utterance to undermine truth, promoting hysteria among the loyal to be terrorized by completely false pictures of what will happen if they don't get their way. They have contempt for the average American, seeing him/her as merely a tool, an instrument to be used for personal gain. I have great respect for the conservatives I grew up with decades ago, even if I disagreed with them. This batch? None.
Wanda wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:35 PM:The 4:54 PM post got me to wondering; what will happen to Joe the Plumber?
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:50 PM:This yahoo conservative does not "have contempt for the average American, seeing him/her as merely a tool, an instrument to be used for personal gain". do I read you right that when you say "The conservatives here will point to some lie or other misdeed by a Democrat and say, "See? They're all liars too!" But that's just another bogus claim", to mean that Democrat polititians do not lie? An arguement could certainly be made that one party lies more than the other party but IMHO they are in the same boat just rowing away from us constituents with different paddles.
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:14 PM:What is up with this image verification? You would think that in this advanced computer age if you type in the correct numbers/letters that you would not have to do it 2 and 3 times.
once denied
Alf wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:30 PM:Well, "Karl" at 6:14PM,
sure you're tense and irritable,
but don't take it out on the computer.
Let's see if that phrase rings a bell.
Regards, Alf
Alf wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:34 PM:Oh yeah, "Karl",
the image verification is also timed, it changes but doesn't change the image, once it has been kicked back and you key in the new image, it should fly unless you put a 1 where it is an l, 1 (one) has the top line pointing down at about 45 degrees, the l is more or less straight out.
Regards, Alf.
Wanda wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:38 PM:All Karl, at 6:14 PM, has found to complain about is the image verification system. I feel guilty I haven't posted anything all day to piss him off.
How about:
Edmund Burke was a grumpy old man!
(that oughtta do it)
Well Wanda the Political Bloger wrote on Oct 29, 2008 6:59 PM:Wanda
[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 5:35 PM:The 4:54 PM post got me to wondering; what will happen to Joe the Plumber?
Well Wanda the Political Bloger, He will Probably continue on with his life, something I hope you think about as well! As The Beach Boys song says, Help me Wanda (Ok maybe it was Rhonda), Help me get you out of my life :)
No on prop 8 wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:06 PM:Perhaps if homosexuals are given equal rights to marriage, they will not take that for granted like heterosexauls do.Aren't you tired of seeing divorce after divorce? This might also help homosexuals cherish and remain in a monogamaous relationship which could ultimately lead to a decline in std's especially HIV. Or are we so afraid that the homosexuals will only prove what a bunch of hypocrites the heterosexauls are? Let them have their rights, they pay their taxes too.
To Wanda wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:24 PM:Joe the Plumber has hired a publicist and is trying for a book deal, a country western album with tour dates, a possible run for congress in his home state, and is appearing alongside Palin offering foreign policy opinions. Joe is just a regular Joe. Sha. The GOP is a joke. RIP GOP
Ron wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:37 PM:"And Alaska - we're set up, unlike other states in the union, where it's collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs."
Sounds to me like, the Government owns to much of the land wealth, and needs to spread that around.
And the only reason Palin get's under this guy's saddle is, she's seen to it that this money was returned to the citizens, and not wasted inside a government program.
Any other State could & should do the exact same thing, except...
Then we'd cut out all the bueracrats,
and liberals, just can't have that.
Ron wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:43 PM:>>>ACORN announced three lawsuits filed against the group has been dismissed>>>
Oh good! Now, we can move onto the remaining 10 lawsuits.
Focal Point wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:43 PM:DAMASCUS, Syria – Syria threatened Wednesday to cut off security cooperation along the Iraqi border if there are more American raids on Syrian territory, and the U.S. Embassy announced it would close Thursday because of a mass rally called to protest a deadly weekend commando attack.
I wonder if some general is as been stated taking things into their own hands or is GWB up to something?
Ron wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:55 PM:So, now your blaming poor "hiring practises?"
"ACORN" @12:12 PM,
I'm of the opinion, that the fish rots from the head down.
When the brother of ACORN's founder was found to have embezzled $948,607.50 from the group, ACORN executives did not inform the board or law enforcement. A whistleblower finally revealed the fraud in 2008, leading to the firing of Rathke's.
In 2003, National Labor Relations Board found that ACORN attempted to thwart union organizing efforts within its own organization. They went after the
two workers by laying them off.
The two organizers had discussions with the Service Employees International Union, to organize under Industrial Workers of the World. The NLRB ordered the two employees be reinstated in their former jobs and ACORN cease from interrogating employees about organizing activity.
Like I said, from the head down...
Sharing the Wealth wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:01 PM:Yadda, Yadda, Yadda, Ronnie Boy at 7:37 p.m.
What a double-standard hypocrite!
Sarah Palin said SHARE THE WEALTH.
That is what she said.
But when a Republican says it, even in a state that OWNS THE "MEANS OF PRODUCTION" - the REAL definition of SOCIALISM - you bend over backwards twisting your tongue to explain and parse and play word games.
But when a Democrat says something remotely similar, you pounce on it and hold their feet to it.
No explanations or context allowed.
DOUBLE STANDARD HYPOCRITE!
Karl wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:02 PM:Well "Alf @ 6:34 PM and Wanda @ 6:38 PM" I expected better from both of you than "you're grumpy". I still respect both of you and your opinions but I am out of here. Neither of you have "pissed me off" but both of you have given me pause for thought. Thanks for the laughs.
Adios
jvc wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:34 PM:PROP 13 is great! Its inception was very lofty and noble and it serves the great purpose of protecting the home
owner from taxes that are inordinately excessive!However, PROP 13 is NOT
A "LIVING " prop in that it does not
codify itself during California's lean times or growing state revenues that
are demanded by growth and of quality of life priorities! And, it is time that we self reflect on what needs to be done about all of California's tax revenue institutions to provide a
properly supported state government
that exists without deficit spending!
If we do not need to raise taxes against deficit spending, then we must decide what we must live without!
to Karl re yahoos wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:15 PM:I don't know, Karl. Do you believe that Obama is a socialist? That he pals around with terrorists? Do you believe that McCain has run as honest and high-minded a campaign as Obama? Do you believe that Sarah Palin is fit to be President of the United States? Do you believe that Obama's having been at 4-sound-bite Wright's church makes him suspect? Do you believe that God will tell Republicans how to run this country? If you can say no to all these, then you are certainly not one of the democracy-hating conservatives that we see on display here daily. I have nothing but respect for you if you decide to vote for McCain/Palin on grounds that at least are not dirty, irrational, or plain hateful. But if you said "yes" to any of the above, well, you're part of the problem, I'm afraid. Up to you.
jvc wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:19 PM:Maybe, one solution to balance the state budget is to cut back on education spending. After all, not all children need an education when they
are predisposed to entering the labor force with their labor!
If this is the case, provide them with
an education release so that they can enter the labor market!
jvc wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:23 PM:Where is the political candidate that promises NO taxes! How could you lose?
Reaganize all political campaigns!
Acorn wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:35 PM:Ron[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:43 PM:
Yes that is what will be done. And what will you have to say when they are also dismissed with prejudice? Anybody can bring a law suit. Proving it in court is quite another thing. It is just part of a planned smear campaign. We will see.
ACORN wrote on Oct 29, 2008 10:17 PM:Ron[-] wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:55 PM: Deflection of the issue and your allegations. The loan and union activities has nothing to do with the alleged voter fraud issue. LOL.
Fred wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:41 PM:Yes on 8....
McCain gets my vote...
No on all bonds, except for the vets..
Pink the Plummer wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:50 PM:Helen Gallardo's letter to the Editor was the best letter of support for Gallo you have? hahahahahahaaa!
She comes across very much like the lady that McCain took the microphone from when she said ,Obama was an Arab!
Some older folks should not drive and some should not send letters to the editors.
If this is Gallo's "birds of a feather"...hahahahaaaaa....no wonder he cannot get anything right.
GO OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!
GO DIAZ!!!!!!!!!!!
GO BARRON!!!!!!!!!!!
GO Thibadeau!!!!!!!
Helen....maybe these names will help you at the polls.
signed,
Pink ;p
proud gaglicious member
gagabedgallo
google it!
VOTE For wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:55 AM:Vote for Abed & Gallo
if you want to run the city into bankruptcy!
The Abed School of Dysfunctional Math-uhh-matics Lesson 1:
1,500 + 1,500 + 8,000 = 13,000
Citizen Jane wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:18 AM:I didn't switch from independent to Repub to become a pawn for kneejerk radicals. My vote is a write-in. McCain and Palin can go down in flames. What a joke! Are there any Republicans with integrity left to salvage something from this disgusting mess? Yes, this is a test and I am embarrassed to be connected to McCain/Palin. Yes it was a stunt and this stunt is a textbook example of total loss of integrity.
Wicked Wanda wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:36 AM:Maybe Joe the Plumber can clean out your pipes after the election.
Roberto1 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:44 AM:Good point Skip, I too voted for Prop. 8 and support your right to marry whomever you like.
Karl wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:18 AM:to Karl re yahoos @ 2008 9:15 PM, I quit listening to the partisan yahoos on both sides long ago. I decided to write in Ron Paul months ago and have had ear muffs on since.
bodecea wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:34 AM:Fred votes for Prop Segregation and for McCain. He is for big socialist government running your life. Gotcha.
bodecea wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:40 AM:Has anyone realized that Prop Segregation is truely GENDER discrimination?
Note that the follow will be acceptable:
Hetero male marries Hetero female
Hetero male marries Homo female
Homo male marries Hetero female
Homo male marries Homo female
But the following will be illegal
Hetero male marries Hetero male
Homo male marries Hetero male
Homo male marries Homo male
Hetero female marries Hetero female
Homo female marries Hetero female
Homo female marries Homo female.
I thought Gender discrimination was illegal....unless you can force your religion down the public's throat, I guess.
- TEMECULA: Protesters line intersection (1735)
- ESCONDIDO: City's dreams of an 'upscale' downtown may be dying (1485)
- ESCONDIDO: 3 DUI arrests, 46 impounds at checkpoint (1119)
- TEMECULA: Parade, fireworks draw thousands on nation's birthday (815)
- REGION: Study says two-thirds of state beaches eroding (777)
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