Wonder wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:06 AM:Wonder what would have happened if Noah did not select a male and female of each species?

SOLON wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:08 AM:This drivel sounds familiar

The letter today by Ron Hutchinson sounds very familiar. Hatred, lies, innuendos. Is this the famous "Ron" who used to blog on this site? And what happened to that blogger? Was he extradited to the Isle of Elba?

Wanda wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:50 AM:Stanley Peterson goes on and on about "plan-less politicians". Anybody can go to Obama's web site, click on "issues" and see for themselves how he intends to deal with the many challenges facing us.

So easy anybody (except, perhaps, John McCain) can do it :)

jvc wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:52 AM:Does anyone know how Tiki Daddy is
doing? Have the palm trees been removed?

Wanda wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:16 AM:While I enjoyed Donald Bently's factually challenged rant, and fully intended to step in front of a train, just as soon as Obama gets elected, I'm curious about the "send annual checks to the 42 percent who don't pay federal taxes" part.

Is this another statistic from the prestigious Raoul Sinverguenza Institute?

Bob wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:27 AM:Actually, Janet Arris, the media really liked Hillary Clinton.

As for "Caribou Barbie" and "Joe the Plumber" it's important to remember that meteorologists don't create the weather. No matter how you spin it, a rainy day is a rainy day.

Roger wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:06 AM:No, SOLON, at 2:08 AM, this doesn't appear to be our "Ron". Letter is much to brief and doesn't begin with the condescending "let me educate you".

Unless you have installed Blowhard Blocker software, or figured out what the [-] below "Ron" is for, his posts are still here on an annoyingly regular basis.

Ron wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:15 AM:Yup, the kool-aid has been drank, and were waiting for whatever was in the kool-aid to take effect.... wait..
I think we have one!

Branka Caran: "The solution to the tremendous problems we face is not to bicker about the size of the government, be it big or small. The solution lies in having a good government, enlightened and responsible, responsive to the needs of the American people, to do for the people what they cannot do for themselves."

What have I told you about these Lib's?
The tune is now changing, debt's will not matter, deficits will not matter, what we need is "enlightened government."

It just keeps gettin funnier.

Noah wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:18 AM:I've always wondered what Noah fed all those animals. Especially the carnivores. Lion chow?

Fred wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:43 AM:Well, Noah, at 7:18 AM, there were probably a whole lot of dead salt water fish around (unless this was a salt water flood, in which case there would be a lot of dead fresh water fish).

Ron wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:44 AM:Today, Robert Borden gives us his opinion as to "Why vote against Prop. 8", by looking at who opposes it.
OK....

"...United Farm Workers..."


César Chávez would be proud of what's become of his organization.
Gay's are doing the job's Americans, don't want to do?
I never knew that.

Ronnie wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:59 AM:Ron[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:15 AM: I do not think it will top the previous government of the last eight years based upon the criteria just stated.

CANOBAMA wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:00 AM:Can Obama buy the election? Based on last night's 30 minute simulcasted Obamathon on several major networks, the answer is clear. Last November, Obama pledged to accept public financing and to work with the Republican nominee to ensure that they both operated within those limits. Obama did not keep his pledge, but go ahead and cast your vote and wait for that middle class tax break he promised.

Whaaass Up wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:01 AM:Prop 8 questions: If a gay man marries a straight woman or a gay woman, is it still traditional since the participants are sexually different.

Zeus wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:11 AM:Mike Daghlian shows he's another Fox robot, spewing out lies he thinks are truths. As for Obama being a friend of terrorists (which is a pathetic lie) McCain (1980s) funded a guerrilla group (the Contras) that engaged in terrorist acts, and McCain expressed how "proud" he was of an ex-felon who urged shooting law enforcement agents in the head (G. Gordon Liddy), and earlier this year, the McCain campaign trumpeted the endorsement of a man who illegally provided weapons and money to terrorists (Oliver North). As for Obama’s tax plan, it will be the same as that of Clinton. If you recall Mike, that was a time of prosperity. McCain wants to continue with the Bush tax plan, which has led to what we painfully observe today. As for McCain’s concerns about the regulation of Fannie and Freddie, not only was McCain a strong supporter of deregulation, his campaign manager Rick Davis played a key role in helping Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac beat back regulatory challenges when he served as president of their advocacy group, the Homeownership Alliance, formed in the summer of 2000. As for military response to terrorism. McCain would retaliate against terrorist attacks, as would Obama. The difference is that Obama won’t attack a country (e.g. Iraq) that has done nothing to the United States. So no Mike, I don’t agree with you, and I’ll eagerly vote for Obama. Turn off Fox and get a clue.

Alf wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:14 AM:Well, "Noah" at 7:18AM,
yup.
Ralston Purina used to be (and maybe still is) the parent company of Foodmaker, aka Jack-in-the-Box. A facility of theirs was/is at the NW corner of Balboa and Ruffin Road in Kearney Mesa.
That might make Jack-in-the-Box also be known as Purina People Chow.
A little tidbit for your consideration.
Regards, Alf.

Oh Ron wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:14 AM:Ron Hutchinson warns us that some of Obama's campaign money may have come from the Middle East. I believe this is the topper of all the hysterical things thrown at us about Obama. We've had eight years of Bush, an OIL MAN, Ron! Do ya think there might be ties to the Middle East with Bush? When you saw those pictures of Bush walking hand in hand with the Saudi royalty (who, by the way, head as undemocratic government as you can imagine), do you think maybe there's a relationship there? Ron? Talk about a Trojan Horse. You yahoos have photos of the horse, you have the biography of the horse, you see the horse opened and the soldiers pouring out, and you insist that there is no horse, that only Obama has ties to the Trojan Horse. Are you serious?

And lets remember torture wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:22 AM:Remember how torture used to be an issue in the US? How we debated it? How McCain, who says he was a torture victim himself, was against it, then was for it? From McClatchy newspapers QUOTE GUANTANAMO BAY, Cuba - In a first, a military judge ruled yesterday that a Guantánamo detainee's confession was extracted through torture, and excluded it from the trial of a young Afghan detainee at the war court.
Jawad, now facing trial by military commission, is accused of throwing a grenade inside an Afghan bazaar in December 2002, which wounded two US soldiers and their Afghan interpreter. None was killed. Henley found in the ruling that there was reason to believe Jawad was under the influence of drugs at the time of his capture and forced confession. [...] Jawad confessed, was turned over to US forces and was transferred to Guantánamo two months later. [...] Yesterday's ruling was the first at the war court to exclude a confession on grounds of torture using the international standard, noted attorney Jamil Dakwar, a military commissions observer with the American Civil Liberties Union. In doing so, Dakwar said, the military judge was rejecting a legal opinion by Bush administration lawyers that early on sought to soften the definition of torture by sanctioning threats to family members. "'Torture' includes statements obtained by use of death threats to the speaker or his family," wrote Henley, the military judge. "The actual infliction of physical or mental injury is not required." ENDQUOTE Another Bush failure, another illegality found in his policies, another possible terrorist to be set free because Bush refused to do it the legal way. The usual yahoos will say that by using international standards of torture, the judicial panel was being "liberal" or some such idiocy. The yahoos love international standards when applied to people who torture Americans, but insist that Americans shouldn't be held to the same standards. In other words, might makes right. McCain says "stay the course". Obama says we should rejoin the world and regain our respect. Obama!

Noah wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:24 AM:What? Noah was willing to kill the worms and flies to catch the fish? LOL

Ms M wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:28 AM:CANOBAMA
[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:00 AM:...whine, whine, whine - I bet if it was your guy - there would not be a discussion. This issue has become a non issue. I am so very glad that Obama did opt out of public funds. It takes lots of money to beat the cons at the game they wrote you know the slime machine - and Obama not only rewrote the game plan he is kicking you know what on the serious side!

Gotta Wonder wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:38 AM:Oh Ron[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:14 AM:
In addition, there are pictures of W holding the hand of a Saudi Prince. Gotta Wonder! Also, rather doubt, that Middle Eastern oil man would support Obama with his pledge for alternative energy development.

sdraoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:42 AM:Poor Little Wanda, she doesn't know that the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 actually eliminated federal income taxes on 40 percent of all workers.

Yes, Wanda, 40 percent of working Americans do not pay income tax. Obama finally realized that and started claiming that these people actually do pay taxes in that they pay Social Security taxes/. But he didn't know these same people didn't pay income tax.

That's because he was the Editor of the Harvard Law Revue. It's in all the articles he wrote for the Revue.

sdraoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:45 AM:Army Times Poll on Presidential Race ... pdf

Our men and women in uniform know what’s right.

In case you missed this week’s issue of the Army Times here are the results of the Army Times’ poll of Military personnel re: the election (in percent):
McCain Obama
Overall 68 23
Army 68 23
Navy 69 24
Air Force 67 24
Marines 75 18
Retirees 72 20
White Non-Hispanic 76 17
Hispanic 63 27
Black/African-American 12 79
Enlisted 67 24
Officers 70 22
Somehow I missed seeing this in the New York Times!!!!!!.

Golly gee, sergeant, this election has nothing to do with race. Notice how black service people are voting.

Noah PS wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:50 AM:Did all those fish drown? If not, how'd they die? Did Noah have two of every kind of fish on the ark? Where did he keep them?

Wanda wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:56 AM:Mike Daghlian's "Why vote for McCain" letter was a real hoot:

"He does not... (insert same old sleezy innuendoes ad nauseam)"

Is this the entire McCain / Palin platform?

Vote YES wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:00 AM:If you vote yes on 8, then I hope you have a clean conscience.I wish I could see the number of divorces go down in this country.How many divorces are due to infidelity? How many individuals marry just for the money? Look around you, all the extra-martial affairs, the gold digging, the STDs that are being spread due to infidelity!I hope anyone who is pro8 never divorces or is unfaithful to their spouse. I wonder how many of you married just so you can drive an expensive car, attend fancy parties and wear designer clothing. Enough of the hypocrisy! VOTE NO ON 8!

OMG wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:09 AM:Heads up voters,

The Republicans haven't even pulled out their really big lies and innuendos yet, they always save those as last minute game changers because there is no time to dispute them before we vote.

That is why they give us those fake surprised looks when they roll out their latest distortions even though they've known about it all along and have been saving it up for weeks/months.

The last several weeks have only been a warm-up, so get ready to have your intelligence severely insulted this weekend.

Oh, and don't forget, if they lose they have had Fox News hyping up the base and setting the stage to overturn the election with legal challenges due to voter fraud.

Also, nevermind what that really friendly Republican tells you, the election is on Tuesday, not Wednesday.

assignment for raoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:10 AM:Thanks for the poll data. Here's an assignment for you: report back to us the same data for prior elections. I always assumed that the African-American population voted very heavily Democrat regardless of the color of the candidate. Here's your chance to prove me wrong, raoul. Looking forward to it. (That the people in the military tend strongly to be conservative, BTW, is not exactly, um, news, raoul. They heavily favored Bush in two elections, so your claim that they "get it right" is quite obviously, uh, wrong! LOL)

Karl wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:16 AM:Noah PS @ 8:50 AM:

In the bilge

To raoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:18 AM:This election has everything to do with race. If you don't know that by now, you are dumber than you appear.

Just the Facts wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:34 AM:Advertisement
RASMUSSEN POLLS
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Thursday, October 30, 2008


After showing the candidates just three points apart yesterday, the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll on Thursday returns to the range that has defined the race for over a month. It’s Obama by five, 51% to 46%.

Yes I did Raoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:43 AM:I also noticed how non-black service people are voting..so what's your point?..

Now, i seem to recall reading that service people are contributing several times more money to Obama than McCain..must be all those rich black service people trying to buy Obama the election, eh Raoul?

Richard wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:51 AM:What is Obama supposed to do when public volunteers send their own personal money to help his campaign, in the desparate hope that someone with some common sense and civility wil end up in the White House? Is Obama supposed to pay the postage to mail it all back to the millions that freely donate what little they have? I see nothing wrong with anyone accepting public money from citizens of this country to help.

Ms M wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:56 AM:sdraoul
[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:45 AM:....White Non-Hispanic 76 17...Golly gee, sergeant, this election has nothing to do with race. Notice how black service people are voting.

...if it's not about race then why are all the white folks voting for the white candidate?

coastalcristi wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:58 AM:SD Raoul -- They are percentage points not quantities. How else could the subcategories be higher than the overall? Think! Oh that's right you are for McCain therefore you'll grasp at anything -- apparently without much thought. They call that closeminded.

Oh, and why do our brave service men and women historically vote Republican? Because they are an integral of a propaganda machine. And I'd bet plenty voted differently behind the curtain than they admitted due to the documented social pressure within their unique sector of society.

sdraoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:05 AM:Oorah! Marines prefer McCain by 75 percent over 18 percent for Obama in this week's Army Times poll of active duty military people.

America's 911 force goes for McCain! That says something, doesn't it?

bodecea wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:21 AM:To Whaaass Up,

No, living a marriage lie would be acceptable to the "Yes on Segregation" crowd.

bodecea wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:23 AM:To Wonder,

Have you ever wondered what really happened since NO species can continue with only one mating pair available?

But, please continue. I love a good fairy tale.

To the Unpatriotic Yes on 8 crowd wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:25 AM:Since you seem to have forgotten, or have never read our Declaration of Independence, let me point out one of the most important parts for you.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Think about it.

Obama lied to us wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:30 AM:He said he would stick to public financing, now he is trying to buy the election. He lies. Thats why he can't be trusted with my vote. I have cast my vote for John McCain.

coastalcristi wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:35 AM:SD Raoul -- I apologize. I see you said how the African Americans voted, not how many.

Please see second paragraph.

Gotta Wonder wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:51 AM:Obama lied to us[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:30 AM: John McCain has lied through out this campaign repeatedly. You must be deaf, dumb and blind. McCain is promising no taxes or lower taxes to every body, to carry on the war in Iraq and to balance the budget in four years. That is the biggest lie told so far.

Oh Please wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:54 AM:sdraoul[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:05 AM:
That is why the marines are called, "jar heads." Take a hike with your,"OOORAH!"

To Sdraoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:13 AM:I suspect more people who work at McDonalds support proponents of french fries. If I was in the military I also might be persuaded to vote for the candidate who sees the world through military eyes. Again, McCain supporters offer nothing of substance. Like the Bush administration, they are happy with lies, distortions, fear and ignorance.

Still waiting raoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:13 AM:Raoul, instead of showing how war-loving marines love war-loving McCain, how about you do your homework and tell us how African-Americans have voted in the past for non-Black Democrats vs Republicans. Thanks in advance.

Define Socialism wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:13 AM:Ms. Arris must not consider the Palin spreading the wealth of the oil companies in Alaska to be socialism. There, every Alaskan gets a check every year for $1200 courtesy of Palin's socialistic spread the oil companies wealth program. The pot is calling the kettle black!

Reardon wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:19 AM:Apollo: Interesting discussion of "inherited wealth provided by slaves," Apollo.

My family was one of those, so while I can’t give you any more statistics than you gave me, I can provide a factual anecdote.

I don’t know how many slaves helped build Rattle and Snap (so named because it was won in a dice game,) one of my ancestral homes outside Columbia, Tennessee, but a decade or so ago it went up for sale for $14 million. (Let me tell you, in middle Tennessee $100,000 will buy you a nice spread, so you can imagine $14 million!)

The main home was not burned after the War because the Northern officer sent to burn it refused when he saw the portrait of the owner who wore a Masonic ring.

So is my family one of those who benefitted from the labor of slaves, through inheritance?

In 1957 I took my new bride from the North to see it as we drove cross-country for my first duty station. Two elderly Aunts lived in Rattle and Snap in abject poverty, with farm animals entering the living room and chickens throughout the house. It had been condemned.

It was bought by Amon Carter, the wealthy philanthropist from Dallas. He restored it to 1850 splendor and restored the detail by adding a modern wing for his family.

A decade or so ago, it was for sale by Carter for $14 million – but he bought it for pennies. No one who owned the slaves, or their children, or their childrens’ childrens or…ever enjoyed the immediately destroyed or decaying wealth of the labor of those slaves.

(But you can Google Rattle and Snap and see its splendor today, thanks to Carter.)

During a tour of old Southern Plantations in South Carolina, I saw restored plantation homes, one after another, but after the Civil War NO ONE enjoyed the labor of the slaves because there was no bread to eat, most of the homes were destroyed, the crops rotted in the fields. The North released the freed slaves into destruction – the sort of shared poverty Obama proposes. It was the ultimate in redistribution.

Apollo, you have read of Sherman’s March to the Sea. You have read of the Siege of Vicksburg. What wealth was left in the South that slaves built? You have read of the Reconstruction.

You talk about “by those who inherited the wealth created by their forebears” What wealth was left in the South that slaves built, by 1870? Certainly none for my family to inherit – and that is why I lived in only apartments, and my family never owned an automobile before I joined the Navy.

Talk to me about inherited wealth created by slaves.

hardtack wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:22 AM:I got a chuckle out of the slug line,”Don't let religious folks tell us how to live,” above the letter by Eric Parish. I enjoy irony.

Mark Twain warned: “Don’t ever confuse Christianity with religion” – that is to say Christianity is a personal thing; religion is a collective, organizational thing, quite like government and party politics.

It was against that backdrop that I viewed Eric Parish’s slug line conspicuously incomplete. It should have said, “Don't let religious folks tell us how to live – let government do it!” Moreover, political party membership qualifies as “religion” to many folks, who apparently have more faith in government than Christians, Jews or Muslims have in God.

The political party religion is actually split into two major “denominations” that both worship government. Government that can not only tell us whom we can marry, but what wage we must work for, what rent we can charge, where we must go to school, what retirement plan we must buy, where we get health care and how we pay for it, yada, yada, yada.

That’s irony. That’s worth a chuckle.

grj wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:25 AM:re: obama lied,(LOL) well look at the last bush years nothin but lies, they had the info to stop 911, and did nothing they started war against someone who didn't attach us.Bush/cheney/rove and the band of clowns all liars and greedy warmongers.Amazing how many people would ever fall for Mcsame and Caribou Barby's stream of hot air and lies @ Obama.when has the government not lied to us?
what @ vietnam? another waste of human life and lies @ spreading communism like a wildfire(LOL)

Once Upon a Time wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:41 AM:Inherited Wealth; Reardon; There are many stories. Outside of Raleigh, N.C.there were various plantations that survivied the war. The slaves became freed blacks who were paid for their work. Of course, it was a lot less than the work. They continued to live on the plantation but had to now pay for their room and board.
Bottom line is that they were better off as slaves. Their previous owner became richer. Their prodigy inherited. To this day, the family is one of the richest and most influential in Wade County. Point being is that there are many stories that can be told.

911 Force wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:46 AM:Ooopsie. Another "factual error" from the fantasies of SDRaoul at 10:05 a.m.
He cites military "statistics" (they are from SDRaoul, therefore suspect), and then transitions to the non-sequitur: "America's 911 force goes for McCain!"

Huh?

Tell us, oh mighty SDRaoul, how many Marines charged up the Twin Towers that fateful Tuesday morning? How many Soldiers? Sailors? Air Force Fighters?
I think I remember that the 911 force who responded were NEW YORK CITY union men from the police and firefighter unions.
You know, the brave first responders who are royally P O'd at Republicans for their cover-up of how the Bush administration ignored advance warnings of invasions to their city and, afterward, diverted troops AWAY FROM the real terrorists who invaded us.
Why don't you take a poll of these urban union members and see who THEY are supporting this year?

Aye Aye Sir wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:49 AM:USMC: The problem with marines is their indoctrination. Some how, they stopped thinking. All you get out of them is OORAH and Semper Fi Marines and former marines think that the civilian really cares about their opinions due to their prior service as marines and really get off on hearing OORAH all the time. Not so, Raoul. Keep it for your reunions.

OBAMACAN wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:53 AM:The blog titled "Obama lied to us" at 10:30 a.m. is a LIE.
Obviously this is someone who cannot tell the difference between a shift in political STRATEGY and flip-flopping on major policy issues to pander to special interests.

This blog looks like it is from someone who is really frustrated that a Democrat is beating a Republican using their own rules. First you better make a commitment to join Democrats in real campaign finance reform, before you start whining like a crybaby because our guy is beating you at your own game.

And since you are so sensitive about people breaking their "promises," how about we look at a few of the McCain flip-flops, not on changes of STRATEGY, but serious policy issues:

Voted against the Bush tax cuts for the richest elites, now says they should be made permanent.

Was against torture, before voting to allow it.

Was against offshore drilling before he was for it.

Sponsored the Kennedy-McCain immigration amnesty plan, now opposes it (his own bill!).

Was keynote speaker for ACORN conference in February 2006; now criticizes Obama for providing legal counsel for them, working with the Department of Justice, TWELVE YEARS AGO.

Gives lip service to environmental and climate change issues, but missed 22 chances last year to back up that lip service with actual votes.

Called Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell "agents of intolerance" before reversing himself and going hat-in-hand to them begging for their endorsements.

Voted against requiring insurers who cover Viagra to offer contraceptive parity for women, now his spokeswoman Carla Fiorina said he supported it.

Was for deregulation before he was against it.

Then there is the whole thing since the start of the economic meltdown, changing positions and statements by the hour, lurching from left to right to up to down, suspending his campaign, backing out of the debates until there's a deal then going to the debate without a deal. Against buying foreclosed houses. For buying foreclosed houses at reduced value. For buying foreclosed houses at face value (so taxpayers let risky lenders off the hook).

Esco Rick wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:55 AM:Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers, he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving s).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
‘I only got a dollar out of the $20’, declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!’
‘Yeah, that’s right’, exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!’
‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’
‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

ACORN wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:55 AM:The other side from ACORN.
"**Hundreds of thousands, maybe several million, Democratic-leaning voters have been and are being purged from voting rolls; Bush has ordered the DoJ to start a "voter-fraud" investigation in Ohio, even in the face of a Supreme Court ruling ordering regular voting protocols (rather than provisional ballots) to proceed for the 200,000 citizens involved; there are numerous cases of "vote-flipping" in various states on touch-screen voting machines; there are all kinds of voter-intimidation tactics being rolled out in various states, including attempts to keep college students from voting; and one can anticipate what happened in 2004, when just a few days before the voting, the Rove forces launched a massive "robocall" operation around the country supposedly coming from Dem campaigns, re-calling again and again at all hours of the day and night, in order to annoy and anger voters enough that they might decide not to vote Democratic. "Grand Theft Robo."

Blaming the victim wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:59 AM:Raoul is accusing the victims of racism of being racist..why am i not surprised?

The Gore Effect - Extended wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:16 PM:You have heard of the Gore Effect -- the unseasonably cold, wet weather that always strikes when Gore goes to speak on Global Warming -- well, it happened again and Gore wasn't even there!

Today, in London the Parliament was discussing the final edition of the British answer to Global Warming through the reduction of greenhouse gases -- and it snowed!

The first October snow in London since 1922!

And some people think God has no sense of humor!

MarkyMarx to hardtack wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:25 PM:Yeah duude..."let the government do it"! And you're point is??? Great letter Eric, Aydens too 10/25. Power to the peeps!

The times they are achanging wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:30 PM:let's harken back
to the not so distant past
when Bush critics were called "haters"
now that the shoe is on the other foot
critics of Obama think they're "patriots".

Alf wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:32 PM:Well, "hardtack" at 11:22AM,
I disagree.
It's worth
a belly-laugh.
Thanks.
Regards, Alf.

Oh Please wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:38 PM:Esco Rick[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:55 AM: Story or the moral of the story does not hold water today. The fact of the matter is that poorer are poorer, the rich or richer, and I am searching for what is left of the middle class.

grj wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:47 PM:esco rick, meaningless beer bar story,
oh if the rich don't like it here they can move overseas to be closer to their overseas hidden bank accts(LOL)
rich people lighten up, Obama does not claim to give money to people not working just give overtaxed people like myself a tax break so maybe I can afford a place to live in usa before I die. Go Obama!

Karl wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:48 PM:The accusations of lies by both sides on this blog crack me up. The old joke "how do you know when a polititian is lying?" does not discriminate between Democrats and Republicans and is oh so true IMHO. Let's move on past the lies, both party's and both candidates are guilty as charged. It is indeed a sad state of affairs when even the lowest on the food chain (city council aspirants) cannot win an election without lots of money and lies.

You can take that to the bank.

Peace

Whats with ooorah wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:48 PM:Why are so many ex and current Marines so completely in love with themselves adn each other? Out here in the real world, while we might be impressed with the training they had, it really doesn't mean much. It's a sad thing when a person who is likely to live into his/her seventies decides to completely set his/her identity in stone at age 19. Look at raoul and fidel, for example. Pitiable.

CANOBAMA wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:53 PM:Re OBAMACAN (11:53), this cannot be dismissed as a mere shift in political strategy. If you publicly commit to a level playing field, then keep your promise to the people. Don't break it when you smell an opportunity for personal advantage for doing so. This guy intends to take an oath of office and we would like to believe the words he says.

DD Wiz wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:55 PM:Renewable energy IS a "cure all"
The published letter from Casimir Krol is wrong in stating that "renewable energy is not a cure-all." Actually it is. It cures our environmental destruction. It cures our dependence on buying oil from terrorists (and the need to start wars with them to take their oil and enrich presidential cronies who profit from both war and oil). It cures our economic ills by creating domestic jobs and building up small businesses and on-site producers, although a few stockholders at energy companies lose tons of business so are terrified of it.
So, yes, renewable energy IS a "cure all."
Ironically, however, while his premise is wrong, Casimir does get to the right conclusion, recommending a NO vote on Prop. 7. While the goal of the proposition is right, to promote clean, green, renewable energy, its methodology is not merely flawed, but utterly corrupt -- a naked power grab (and "power" in every sense of the word) by energy companies who see green as the wave of the future and want to corner the market and squeeze out individual producers and small competitors.
So, yes, renewable energy IS a "cure all," but do vote NO on Prop 7.
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

Karl wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:57 PM:Alf @ 12:32 PM, we all need more "belly laughs". While attending a family reunion months ago in St Louis, MO my Dad, his 3 brothers and one sister cornered the market. It was a sight/sound to behold, the five had the rest of the crowd in stitches just watching them.

Peace

DD Wiz wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:02 PM:Beer Taxes
The post from "Esco Rick" (11:55am) tries to explain taxes in terms of beer.
(Actually, he just copied the same thing "Roberto1" posted back on 10/16, but I'll humor him by repeating an updated version of my response to "Roberto1.")
Like "Ron" so many times before him, his example only gives one side of the balance sheet.
It does not address exactly how much income and assets the rich person has in comparison to everyone else, and also misses a few addition key points:

"Esco Rick" (copying "Roberto1" or copying from the same source) talks about the four poorest guys paying nothing and the one richest guy paying $59.00 for a beer.
But he does not tell what there incomes are or quantify just how "rich" or "poor" they are.
Since the wage gap (not even including "unearned" investment income) is such that the typical CEO takes home over 400 times what the front line worker does (and in some corporations even much more than that), in order for the beer example to make any sense, it does not even begin to become equitable until the lowest wage earner pays the one dollar and the rich guy pays more than $400.

The example further ignores reality by trying to equate a luxury item (beer) with a necessity (government to maintain the public order).
And it further overlooks the fact that the rich guy is drinking a lot more beer, just as in the world of taxes, the rich guy also gets the most government protection for his taxes, because he has the most to protect and has also benefitted the most from a system of regulated entrepreneurship that allows him to prosper.

It sounds to me like someone should check their facts and do their math instead of sampling the wares.

Purchased from Cindy's beer company, of course.
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

More bad news for yahoos wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:03 PM:From the AP QUOTE ANCHORAGE, Alaska – A new ethics complaint has been filed against Sarah Palin, accusing the Alaska governor of abusing her power by charging the state when her children traveled with her.

The complaint alleges that the Republican vice presidential nominee used her official position as governor for personal gain, violating a statute of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. It follows a report by The Associated Press last week that Palin charged the state more than $21,000 for her three daughters' commercial flights, including events where they weren't invited, and later ordered their expense forms amended to specify official state business. ENDQUOTE
So while Palin and McCain and their talking heads go all over creation trying to dig up any (ANY!) nonsensical tidbit to smear McCain with, and as they crow about how they (ONLY THEY!) can clean up Washington, here's Ms Palin using taxpayer money for her kids' vacations. What a joke! ...

MarkyMarx wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:06 PM:Aye Aye Sir
[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:49 AM:Blaming the victim
[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:59 AM:

You rock bro, I'm like sooo bored with all the ooorah and smeper fi crapolla. For the love of ghonga these guys need to growe up and get a life. Check out Roaul trying to make out the 79% of black serviceman (it's 95% with civilians)to be racists, for voting for Obamma. What planet do you live on duude? The rule says "only white peolpe are racist" Comprende! Power to the peeps!

Bill wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:12 PM:I was eating at [a restaurant] in O'side a few days ago and my waitress had an Obama "spread the wealth" sticker so I thought I would teach her an economics lesson.

When it came time to pay the bill, I made it a point to inform the cashier that I would be giving the waitresses tip to the homeless man outside because he needed it more than she did.

You should have see tne look on their faces.

The waitress came over and argued that she had earned it and she desrved it as a result.

I insisted that her points were well taken but the homeless guy needed it more so I walked out and handed the tip to the homeless man instead. As I walked out, the manager told me that I wouldnt be served there again because of my actions. I am going back there again this week to see if he would actually carry out his threat. Should he refuse to serve me, I will be contacting corporate and I will get him fired.

Tough beans huh?

Obvioulsy, the waitress only thinks that spreading OTHER people wealth is a good idea but not hers.

I will have no problem with getting them both fired too should they refuse to serve me this week.

She doesnt believe in spreading the wealth at all.

At least not hers.

That is freeloading at its finest and isnt much different than what the homeless guy was doing.

Class dismissed!

Bill wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:16 PM:My next move is to insist that a retawilers worker give me the same change as someone who pays with a bigger bill than I do.

I want the same change he gets for paying with a b igger bill.

I will insist that the change redistribution plan at Dennys skews towards the rich and oppresses me by not giving me the same change as a guy who pays with a larger bill.

How unfair!!!!

I apdi with a ten and he paid with a C note.

Why didnt we get the same change back?

Thats not fair!!!!

Protect Steak wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:19 PM:I agree with the readers who want to protect the sacred institution of marriage. In the same spirit, I think we should also protect Steak, another sacred institution that has been around for thousands of years.

In just a few short years, Steak has come under attack by tofu eaters and liberal activist judges. They think it's normal to grill a piece of tofu and call it "Steak." That is an attack on my family's rights and values.

Just because it has the same protein content and looks like Steak, does not make it Steak. Steak comes from cows. Can two pieces of tofu make a little piece of baby tofu like a bull and a heifer can make a calf? No! Did a male tofu and a female tofu get on Noah's ark together? I didn't think so!

That's why tofu confuses children. The little girl sitting next to my eight-year-old son at the school lunch table last week told him that she was eating a tofu "steak." He told her that there's no such thing as tofu "steak," but the teacher told him that he was wrong and that tofu steak is NORMAL! How am I supposed to explain this to little Billy?

It's a slippery slope: Before you know it, people are going to cut a slice out of a watermelon and call it "watermelon steak." We might even have "cardboard steak." There's no end to the radical tofu agenda. Eventually, the liberal activist judges are going to put me and my family in jail for eating traditional beef Steak.

If people want to eat tofu at home, that's their business, but I'm sick of tofu eaters flaunting their lifestyle and forcing it on me. VOTE YES ON PROP S to protect Steak!

Ms M wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:24 PM:McCain had a rally today with 6,000 attendees. However:

A local school district official confirmed after the event that of the 6,000 people estimated by the fire marshal to be in attendance this morning, more than 4,000 were bused in from schools in the area. The entire 2,500-student Defiance School District was in attendance, the official said, in addition to at least three other schools from neighboring districts, one of which sent 14 buses.
This happened -- as if a reminder were needed -- less than a week out from the election, when the heat of the campaign should be drawing record crowds.

Folks - this is PATHETIC!

Ms M wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:27 PM:At that McCain rally that I mentioned earlier - "Joe the Plumber" was a no show......Oh my! PATHETIC!

OMG wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:38 PM:Esco Rick [-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:55 AM:

I warned you all at 9:09,

It isn't even Friday yet and the Republican puppets are on the the loose furiously copying and pasting from their many talking-point email msgs straight from the head liars at Republican distortion machine headquarters.

Or from Rauol, you can't be sure.

This one has been around for months, please stop and try to contribute with some original thought.

AAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Karl is wrong wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:01 PM:Of course all politicians lie...all people probably lie. But I would ask any fairminded person to compare the lying of the two campaigns. IMHO, McCain/Palin have resorted to lying (and many other dirty tactics) many times as often as Obama/Biden have. But I would invite anyone to count them. The latest, of course, is the constant drumbeat that Obama is a socialist. "Socialist" actually has a dictionary definition, you know, and Obama ain't one. No matter. Say it and repeat it endlessly. A lie like this is enormous compared to Obama's shift in funding strategy. But the socialist lie is one of so many! He's a Muslim! He will be sworn in on the Koran! His fistbump with his wife is a secret terrorist signal! He pals around with terrorists! And McCain/Palin lie about themselves even more! She heroically turned down the bridge to nowhere! She is the reformer! McCain was always for the surge! That plane was sold for a profit on eBay! Lies, lies, lies, lies, lies. No end to them.

to The times they are achanging wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:02 PM:Well, they are.

U B Flying High wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:05 PM:MarkyMarx
[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:06 PM: The rule says "only white peolpe are racist"

Dude, after you Crash and feed your Munchies, Go back and read what you said. As Ms M would say, Oh my! PATHETIC!

gracchus wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:05 PM:esco rick, your endeavor at 11:55 a.m. to compare tax policy with a beer party is absurd. if 10 men decide to drink excessively and one foolishly decides to subsidize the rest they all have a hangover following their spending spree.

when we as citizens pay our taxes to various levels of government we have property and services which make our present life-style possible. our federal taxes support parks and forests, the military, social services, regulatory agencies, scientific research, and roads and bridges.

our state taxes do the same. and our city taxes support our schools, police, fire, and sanitation.

i fail to understand the comparison of outcomes between a drinking party and paying to support a civilized society.

the november 3 issue of THE NEW YORKER as an interesting article in "the talk of the town section." it recounts that eight years ago john mccain favored a higher income tax for those who earn more money. as he pointed out one person can reach a certain level of comfort and more money will not add to it.

presumably, the more wealth that a person has in a society, the more reason he should want a stable government that will give him security in his person and property. he therfore has a greater obligation to support the institutions of government which give him this service.

asking the better-off citizens to pay more taxes to support the government which protects their interests has nothing to do with a leveling redistribution of wealth. it is the price that they must pay to secure the integrity of their possessions and the ability to obtain more.

Asteroid to Sdraoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:07 PM:Now that’s not right, you stole my little friend! That little twerp that was trying to antagonize me for a few days is obsessed with you today. Posts at: 9:10, 9:43, 10:30, two at 11:13, 11:46, 11:49, and my favorite at 11:59. He’s almost as courageous as chris when it comes to denigrating United States Marines, isn’t he. They say you can’t insult an imbecile……unless you ignore them; drives them crazy. I recommend it. Semper Fi!

Asteroid is wrong wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:29 PM:Only one of the posts you listed is from me, Asteroid, sorry. And I wasn't ragging on the Marines. I said I respected their training. Let me add that I greatly appreciate their service. But when it's over, give up the adolescent identity already. It's not THAT big a deal, at least not in the real, wide world. I do admit that in the past at times, I've zoomed in on raoul because his posts were so often so dishonest and self-serving. But I don't bother with him any longer. He's made it clear that he is simply a racist. He's told us that black people who are educated, including Obama and Colin Powell, are "affirmative action babies" whose accomplishments are actually gifts from the system. That's racism, pure and plain. So I don't bother with raoul any more.

DD Wiz wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:33 PM:Renewable energy IS a "cure all"
The published letter from Casimir Krol is wrong in stating that "renewable energy is not a cure-all." Actually it is. It cures our environmental destruction. It cures our dependence on buying oil from terrorists (and the need to start wars with them to take their oil and enrich presidential cronies who profit from both war and oil). It cures our economic ills by creating domestic jobs and building up small businesses and on-site producers, although a few stockholders at energy companies lose tons of business so are terrified of it.
So, yes, renewable energy IS a "cure all."
Ironically, however, while his premise is wrong, Casimir does get to the right conclusion, recommending a NO vote on Prop. 7. While the goal of the proposition is right, to promote clean, green, renewable energy, its methodology is not merely flawed, but utterly corrupt -- a naked power grab (and "power" in every sense of the word) by energy companies who see green as the wave of the future and want to corner the market and squeeze out individual producers and small competitors.
So, yes, renewable energy IS a "cure all," but do vote NO on Prop 7.
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

This was first posted at 12:55pm;
Later posts (including one from me) were subsequently processed but this was skipped.
Holding posts until much later, long after others have posted, gives the impression one is trying to "bury" them so they won't get read by those who won't go back that far on the assumption that all posts from that time frame had been processed.
Please give everyone equal opportunity if you expect to be considered a publication that presents news and comment in a balanced fashion!
Note to Editor: This is the LETTERS page.
This is a response to a published LETTER.
Seems like posts that are actually on topic should get priority!
Please do not keep skipping and delaying posts from liberals!

Help for raoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:37 PM:I got tired of waiting for raoul to tell us about how the Black population voted in previous elections when the candidates were white. In the last 4, about 90% of the Black voting population voted for Clinton, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry. So raoul's 79% of Black servicepeople voting for Obama shows that Black servicepeople, like all servicepeople, tend to be quite a bit more conservative than the general population. It also shows that the Black Obama vote is pretty much the normal Black Democrat vote. Yawn.

Get Real wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:38 PM:Bill[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:12 PM: Rather doubt that she would have made such a big deal over a 5% tip.

Little Twerp wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:39 PM:Asteroid to Sdraoul[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:07 PM: Stick around.

Alf wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:53 PM:By George, I think that Joseph Kraatz is on to something in his letted.
He did forget to put in #8,
#8 Ban abortions and ALL forms of birth control for everyone, thus ensuring the maximum success rate for making babies.
Regards, Alf.

tjefferson wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:18 PM:To Hardtack at 11:22. You wrote that you got a chuckle out of Eric Parish's letter. I got a chuckle out of your post. Mark Twain never wrote "don't ever confuse Christianity with religion," so your interpretation of this bogus quote is truly laughable. If you really want to know what Twain thought about Christianity, read his book "Letters From The Earth." I don't think you'll like what you read and I doubt if you'll be quoting him again.

Looking Glass wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:26 PM:Karl is wrong[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:01 PM: Just because one politican lies less than another is no excuse, because politicans should not be lying at all! Politicans are elected to carry out the will of the people that elected them, and they should not have to resort to lying and smearing their opponents! I agree with Karl on this one - we need a strong 3rd party to shake things up!

Reardon wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:32 PM:Have you been following the woman who chained herself to the bench in the front yard of her Mira Mesa foreclosed home to fend off the foreclosure?

She contended that she was a victim of the sub-prime crises and in some ways she was: Which is to say that she is a real estate agent (not a Broker) who does not have an office, but uses her knowledge to buy homes for her own profit as a landlord.

SIX HOMES, TOTAL.

(She has lost four of them so far!)

And, why has she lost those homes? Well, she has taken out loans against those homes (about $1 million) for her own uses and, as she says on Ch. 6 news, “to pay off credit card bills.”

I don’t know about you, but I am without sympathy for this woman.

Reardon wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:47 PM:tjefferson: Reardon has read Letter From Earth -- several times -- and it is by far the best writing Twain ever did. It was from this book that I learned about Numbers 31.

Fascinating work. I read it just after it was released by his family, which had forbid its publication for more than a hundred years (for good reason, at least to them) as I recall.

jvc wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:57 PM:What is so great about Obama is that he is using his great gift of oration to help the country versus those professional politicians and religious leaders that promote their personal wealth!

More bad news for yahoos wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:04 PM:From the NY Times QUOTE A growing number of voters have concluded that Senator John McCain’s running mate, Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska, is not qualified to be vice president, weighing down the Republican ticket in the last days of the campaign, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll. All told, 59 percent of voters surveyed said that Ms. Palin was not prepared for the job, up 9 percentage points since the beginning of the month. Nearly a third of voters polled said that the vice-presidential selection would be a major factor influencing their vote for president, and those voters broadly favored Senator Barack Obama. In a possible indication that the choice of Ms. Palin has hurt Mr. McCain’s image, voters said that they had much more confidence in Mr. Obama to pick qualified people to serve in his administration than they did in Mr. McCain. ENDQUOTE Once again, the liberals had it right from day one, just like Iraq. Meanwhile, much of the country gets all caught up in the ad campaign, the pizzazz, the BS and then, bit by bit, day by day, reality appears and truths emerge. If 59% think this about Palin (and her numbers aren't going up!), how well can old man McCain possibly do on Tuesday?

Reardon wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:23 PM:I don’t believe in long-term successful conspiracies, but I was privy to the disclosure of a successful one in 1997 in Hawaii, when the worlds largest Trust was brought down.

Now, this is not an anti-Democratic Party screed because although everyone who was part of the conspiracy was a high Democratic Party operative, the conspiracy was also brought down by other high Democratic Party operatives.

The Bishops Trust was (and is) HUGE! It was dedicated to developing money and schools for Hawaiian youth, and it was (and is) larger than the combined Trusts for Harvard and Yale!

For decades it was run as a cash cow for the Trustees, who were paid nearly $1 million, each, per year, and their friends.

ANYONE who is involved with support of foundations of any sort, needs to read a recently released book “Broken Trust.” I am just starting to read it tonight, but I have written columns on the subject before and followed it daily for several years, so I know how it turns out – but I also know that it is a fascinating, real-life story of greed, conspiracy, politics, sex and violence.

I can commend it without even reading it!

Alf wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:41 PM:The letter by John Bulat shows the same attitude as someone caught speeding (Prop 22) and blames the cop (the lawsuit) and the court (the California Supreme Court) for enforcing the law (equal protection and cannot discriminate against someone based on sexual orientation) and prosecuting the offender (overturning Prop 22).
What's the solution to people like John Bulat?
Curse the cop, call the judge an "activist judge" and try to change the law.
Regards, Alf.

To Bill C. wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:51 PM:Really? I doubt every word you said -- and also feel your teensy tip wasn't worth making a big deal about. Many people "stiff" waitresses and leave no tip at all, yet the waitress doesn't make a scene, let alone the manager. Besides, Obamam doesn't plan to take money from one person and literally hand it to another. He never said that. He does feel, and so do I, that working peoples' social security payments should not be used to offset wealthy persons' tax cuts. I don't think so either. Back when $25,000 annual salary was considered good wages, I used to argue about taxes with a fellow who made over $150,000. IMHO, no matter how high his tax rate, he still had a h---- of a lot more money to spend than the guy making $25,000 -- and each worked just about as hard as the other.

As for the rich giving up investing to "create jobs for the lower classes if they have to pay more taxes" - tell me what you're smoking -- they invest to make money for themselves, period.

Karl wrote on Oct 30, 2008 4:59 PM:Karl is wrong @ 2:01 PM:

If you believe the donut holes that you just presented, I feel sorry for you.

Peace

Karl wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:09 PM:Looking Glass @ 3:26 PM:

This is the first time that I have supported a 3rd party. Let's hope a strong message is sent. If not, I will continue to blast the Democrat and Republican party's. These ass...es do not have our common good in mind. Their goal is to gain power every 8 years and put the screws to the anyone in their way including middle/lower class. Can't you folks see this?

To Reardon wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:15 PM:We were just talking about that woman yesterday and the general concensus was that she had abused the system and deserves no sympathy. I will add that we read the article and considered the situation before coming to that conclusion.

obamanation wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:17 PM:What DD WHIZ does not understand is that renewable energy used now does not reduce power produced by conventional fossil based power plants by one watt. Why? Because renewable sources are UNRELIABLE in their output. As a result fossil based powerplants that take hours and hours to ramp up to full capacity must run in THE BACKGROUND at full capacity in order to meet peak demands IMMEDIATELY. DD WHIZ don't you know that you just cant start a fossil fuel based plant with a button push? Nuclear ditto

Wanda wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:22 PM:Karl, at 5:09 PM, is all wrong! Don't believe a word of it! Our guys (the ones in the white hats) are the good guys! Their guys (the ones in the black hats) are the bad guys! Can't you folks see this?

sdraoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:24 PM:Who is that questioning me on the black military vote?

Yes, Blacks voted themselves into political oblivion in 1980, 84, 88, and 2000 and 2004. Most of that time they voted 90 percent for Democrats which is why they haven't made much progress in recent years.

For example, though they voted for Clinton, twice, their unemployment was twice that of whites and 50 percent higher than Hispanics.

Blacks voted 90 percent republican until 1932 when they switched to
Democrats. That changed in 1952 when 50 percent of blacks voted for Eisenhower. Almost 40 percent of blacks voted for Nixon in 1960 and almost 50 percent in 1968 and 1972.

Nonetheless, as Geraldine Ferraro stated earlier, If Obama were white he would have never been nominated.

And, he is an affirmative action baby as is Colin Powell. The difference is that Powell admits it and Obama doesn't.

Sure would like to read his senior thesis at Columbia about Disarmament with the Soviet Union but I can't because it is held in secret.

As to comparing Marines with NYPD and NT fireman, OK, compare those guys to the Marines at Fallujah.

The Marines are America's 911 force, not the NYPD that didn't land at Guadalcanal, Iwo, Korea, Chu Lai, etc.

The Real Yes on 8 Agenda... wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:28 PM:...that they are hiding from you:

Perhaps if it passes,just knowing any legitimate relationship between two men would be illegal, I won't get anymore of those embarrassing physiological reactions I'm getting in the locker room at my gym...its causing such a temptation, I'm afraid I might act on my repressed desires, and it would endanger my marriage!

Reardon wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:30 PM:To To: It is a worse story than I had thought, Ch. 8 is reporting today that there were an additional six foreclosures in Riverside County!

Who knows where this will eventually lead, and certainly there are people who are relatively more innocent, but the scam line leads from them all the way to the top.

Where is RICO when we need it? I would love to see an investigative report on which lenders have what percentage of toxic loans.

Aye Aye Sir wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:45 PM:The Marines are America's 911 force, not the NYPD that didn't land at Guadalcanal, Iwo, Korea, Chu Lai, etc. Deflection again. No one ever said that NYPD was at Guadalcanal. The statement was that the marines were not in New York for 9/11. You were not at Guadalcanal either by the way.

Aye Aye Sir wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:48 PM:Affirmative Action Babies: Yo Buddy, Whats we you? Don't yuu get it? We do not care if Obama or Powell are affirmative action babies. WE DO NOT CARE. It makes no difference. OOQRAH! You has been marines really are just plain dumb.

Ms Wanda B wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:49 PM:No Wanda aka Ms. Bozo the Clown at 5:22PM, We can't see this, because we are all supposed to be color blind. Isn't that right Wanda?!?!?!?

Oh Karl wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:49 PM:Sad, but third party or not, in your heart, you are indeed one of the yahoos. Or maybe not. Please, give us a list of important lies told by Obama/Palin and a similar list told by McCain/Palin. I'll let the actual numbers speak. And please, don't tell me that one lie or a thousand, neither is perfect. Are you? Do you believe that the wold divides into two moral camps, the saints and the rest? The entire McCain/Palin campaign has been based on a program of exaggerations and lies about themselves and Obama. What else could they run on? Their record of honesty? Their support of Bush and his God? Oh, that's right: the surge. Great.
Liberals were calling for an increase in troops in Iraq long, long before McCain realized it might be a good idea, and then took credit for it. This is all about a few sheckles that the rich would benefit by under McCain over Obama, that's the whole tortilla. For those sheckles, the wealthy would merrily sell the rest of society down the river, would engage in war after war, would bet on oil as the fuel of the future, and would settle for an entire world that no longer respects us. Real patriots, they are. Ideology over country...no, sheckles over country, every time.

hardtack wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:55 PM:“tjefferson,” I concede to your (whatever), and grant you permission to attribute the quote to me. I thought I heard it somewhere, and didn’t want to be accused of plagiarism. So, okay, you heard it from me first – what’s your point?

Reardon wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:56 PM:The Mira Mesa scam is getting MUCH worse! Some activists from Los Angeles have come to this woman's aid, claiming that she is the victim of rich people.

There is apparently an expose on Ch. 6 tonight -- their reporter went to a called news conference and asked the wrong question when he asked the last time she had paid any rent on that home -- August, 2006!

Because she knows the foreclosure ropes, she has lived rent free for more than two years!

Apparently, the current edition of Investors Business Daily has dedicated their entire edition to the chronology of this sub-prime fiasco from top to bottom

Karl wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:00 PM:Oh Karl @ 5:49 PM, ah crap you have me pegged. I was hoping that all in this country including middle/lower class which I am a member of fails. I'm busted, put a fork in me.

Peace

Bill wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:04 PM:Thats it!

Distort my words.

First, the waitress made an issue out of it because I didnt just stiff her. I stiffed her to make a point about the absurdity of Obamas plan which most certainly is taking peoples money and gives to amother. She objected to the mocking of her political views but thats my right so I'll do it.

Thats nom different than her Obama badge that she wore.

I can see you havent read Obamas plan which doubles capital gains and dividend taxes. Plus, inheritance taxes are back under Obama so I hope you dont plan on passing on your wealth to your kids.

That effects the middle class in so many ways.

He is taking that money and giving it to whom again?

Hes taking that from the middle class too.

So who gets it?

Those that dont pay taxes as only 60% of America pays taxes.

So how are 95% getting a tax cut?

Obama supporters crack me up because while your income tax may be lowerwed, every other tax under the sun is going up on the middle class.

Yet they are voting for him with glee.

Read the plan Obama supporters.

Obama is raising taxes on you and its going to hurt.

Thats if you have a job.

Offshore earnings are taxed at a lower rate so you can expect many jobs to be shipped out of the country. Obamas tax incentives for staying in the USA are pennies compared to the savings on labor, overhead, union demands, and other costs.

I know someone moving his company to Mexico if Obama gets in stating the reasons above.

550 workers are getting pink slips.He could care less about the crumbs Obama throws him as an incentive.

You dont tax your way to prosperity and you dont get jobs from poor men.

Hold onto your wallet people.

Obama is setting himself up to be a very ineffective president.

Thank God the framers set up our system to stop him after 2 years.

cant wait til jan 20 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:07 PM:when President McCain takes the presidential oath on the Bible, the same day Acorn leaders are convicted of voter fraud.

OBAMACANNOT wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:11 PM:CANOBAMA said this
"CANOBAMA
[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:53 PM:Re OBAMACAN (11:53), this cannot be dismissed as a mere shift in political strategy. If you publicly commit to a level playing field, then keep your promise to the people. Don't break it when you smell an opportunity for personal advantage for doing so. This guy intends to take an oath of office and we would like to believe the words he says."

This is a great point. As for the McCain "lies" they were policy changes based on new information.

This letter is to the Bush Lies crowd wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:13 PM:In case you didn't know, Bush has access to top secret classified info that we don't. You question why he attacked Iraq, but you don't have the intelligence that he saw. I trust Bush and the generals more than armchar quarterbacks.

hardtack wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:28 PM:“Obamanation” (nice “call-sign”), the greenies will be even more disappointed about how Obama’s national effort to reduce fossil fuel use will effect atmospheric CO2.

Oil is a global market. The less we use, the greater the global supply, the lower the cost, the more the use. You can’t screw around with “mother” economics. Except by force — and that didn’t turn too well in the past.

Apollo wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:39 PM:Re: Reardon (11:19 p.m.)
Apologies for not responding sooner. Well, not really sorry, the fact is that, on most days it is possible to integrate online and offline realities, but not so every day. Today was one of those days when offline realities didn't work with blogging.

In any case, Reardon's response does what Reardon does when he can't address the question on the table: he changes the subject to something irrelevant.
HE raised the example of "redistribution" cited by Obama in a radio interview 7 years ago, and I noted that the reality was that wealth was "redistributed" from slaves who created it against their will to those who forcibly took it for themselves and then handed it down, ill-gained, to their heirs.
Correcting injustice to just level the playing field of equal opportunity is not "redistribution," it is JUSTICE.

Reardon replied by saying that 150 years and "seven generations" is too far back to go to correct injustices, so TOO BAD to those inheriting lives of urban squalor when they should have been inheriting expansive plantations that THEY and their relatives created. When I noted that corporate insurers who cover marine cargo losses enforce salvage and subrogation claims against those who recover sunken treasurers they covered, for even longer times than what I am citing, what does Reardon do?

He cites personal sob stories about his own family's experience with Southern estates.
Say what? I don't know who Reardon is and cannot verify his many fabulous claims.
Try to understand this, Reardon: MY POINT WAS NOT ABOUT YOU.
You keep trying to change points from general principles to personal anecdotes.
I don't care about your ALLEGED family histories.
I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU!
I am talking about the descendants of African slaves who did not get their rightful inheritance and who just want to level the playing field.
They are not asking for "reparations."
They are asking for JUSTICE.
You can call it "redistribution" if you want.
You don't have any credibility anyway.

DD Wiz wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:55 PM:Copy and Paste
The posts from "Bill" (1:12, 1:16 and 6:04pm) show he is a complete FRAUD. He copies and pastes widely circulated anecdotes from other web sites, word for word, and tries to pretend he is describing personal experiences.
The Republicans and conservatives are just lying, lying, lying.
Come clean, Bill. I would beseech the web comments editor to be more vigilant. Stop delaying and censoring the liberals who actually sit down and compose original material, making them take a back seat to those who copy and paste from other websites, dishonestly passing it off as their own original material and even "personal experiences," possibly risking copyright violations.

And they keep on trying to pass off Obama's proposal to CUT MIDDLE CLASS TAXES as some kind of "share the wealth" plan (you know, like Sarah Palin's description of her oil policies in Alaska), even though they apply EXACTLY THE SAME to everyone, including the very rich, on the PORTIONS of income in equivalent income levels. They don't explain why tax cuts for the rich are not also "redistribution. They don't explain why Sarah Palin's Alaskan "collective share the oil wealth" isn't socialism. And they don't explain why John McCain wasn't a socialist when he took exactly the same positions in 2001. Oops.

And the post from "obmanation" (5:17pm), taking his screen name from a book of lies that has already been thoroughly discredited, presumes to lecture me on renewable energy. This person obviously knows NOTHING about what s/he is writing about. It is true that solar alone will not cover overnight energy production. But peak production is needed during the daytime, when factories and businesses are operating, and air conditioners are running. That is when solar prevents the need for more plants to cover that peak demand. As for cloudy days, they do reduce production, but just as you can get a sunburn on cloudy days, so also solar production continues. And please do not try to lecture me on this subject when you know NOTHING about the subject. I installed solar almost a year ago and have not paid an electric bill since (in HOT sunny Escondido, running my air conditioner as much as ever). And wind, wave, geothermal and fuel cells are more than adequate to cover overnight blackouts and reduced coverage on cloudy days.
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

NIE National Intelligence Estimate wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:09 PM:The blog titled "This letter is to the Bush Lies crowd" at 6:13 p.m. shows complete lack of information about the reality of intelligence.
This person alleges that Bush had intelligence that we didn't.
Well, that is true.
HOWEVER, those who DID have the intelligence, in fact those who created the intelligence that Bush got, universally reported that there were NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.
Remember Scott Ritter? He was BUSH's own intelligence expert IN IRAQ. He reported NO WMD and was ridiculed by right-wing extremist hate raido.
Remember Hans Blix and Mohammed El Baradei? U.N. weapons inspectors who were utterly and totally ridiculed and belittled by right-wing extremist hate raido.
Remember our allies the French? Our Allies the German? You know, the ones who supported us in the first Gulf War? Who supported us after September 11? Who supported us in Afghanistan. Oh, but they didn't fall for Bush's LIES about WMD in Iraq. Remember "Freedom Fries"? Remember ridiculing our close allies - WHO TURNED OUT TO BE RIGHT?

Remember the Democrats who voted for the war in Iraq? Well, only half of them. The ones who did not read the NIE (National Intelligence Estimate) and felt it was important to give Bush the "benefit of the doubt." The half of Democrats who actually read the NIE voted against the war in Iraq.
What is the NIE? The National Intelligence Estimate is the report compiled jointly by all 17 intelligence agencies and, BEFORE THE WAR IN IRAQ, they said there were NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. Just like Scott Ritter. Just like Hans Blix and Mohammed El Baradei. Just like the French. Just like the Germans.

"Bush Lies" is right about one thing.
Bush did have access to that intelligences.
Which means only one thing.
BUSH LIED.

Ron wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:40 PM:And there it is again!

My good buddy and his need to know the "assets" as well as the income of those who file income taxes.

"Wizzer" @1:02 PM: "Like "Ron" so many times before him, his example only gives one side of the balance sheet.
It does not address exactly how much income and assets the rich person has in comparison to everyone else..."

NOw, under the tax code, Gross income includes wages, interest income, dividend income, income from certain retirement accounts, capital gains, alimony received, rental income, royalty income, farm income, unemployment compensation, and certain other kinds of income.
Adjusted gross income (AGI) is a tax term for an amount used in the calculation of an individual's income tax liability. AGI is calculated by taking an individuals gross income and subtracting the income tax code's enumerated deductions.
Now, to caluclate one's AGI, the government allows certain deductions, here are a few examples:
some examples of the deductions from gross income allowable in computing AGI include:
Certain business expenses of reservists, performing artists, and fee-basis government officials; Health savings account deductions; Certain moving expenses; One-half of self-employment tax; Penalties on early withdrawal of savings; Alimony paid;
Deduction for contribution to an Individual Retirement Account (IRA); and Student Loan interest deduction.

Do you see a calculation for "ASSETS" in there? Anywhere?
Told ya, Radical.
He says it the first time, then denies it. Repeats it again, denies it again.
Now this is the third time.

Alf wrote on Oct 30, 2008 7:49 PM:Well, "NIE National Intelligence Estimate" at 7:09PM,
your problem, much like mine frequently,
is that you present verifiable facts.
A relative of mine is a paranoid schizophrenic and dealing with her is unthinkably difficult. This helped me understand her a bit better, dealing with her is still a PITA, but at least I can understand why she refuses to believe that she has a problem and why most rational arguments utterly fail with her -

If you are convinced to the core of your being, you KNOW that you are perfectly fine and some doctor tells you that you have diabetes and you must take insulin, but you KNOW that you don't have diabetes, you won't take the insulin because you KNOW that it is a poison to those, like you, who are perfectly fine and do not have diabetes. Even if the doctor shows you your lab work, since you KNOW that you are perfectly fine, you accuse him or her of making it up or falsifying the test results or whatever.

The delusion that some have, they KNOW that GWB can do no wrong, that all criticism of him is false, that he, as president, is "in the loop" and those people who are critical of GWB are not, KNOWS for a fact that those critics are deluded, not him.
Do you see any parallels or similarities?
I do.
Regards, Alf.

Obamanation wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:19 PM:Yes, GREAT CALL SIGN! Although I would spell it slightly differently.

Next Wednesday papers around the world will lead with the headline:

OBAMA NATION

Focal Point wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:34 PM:This letter is to the Bush Lies crowd That is why there is 4200 dead Americans and 30,000 wounded and 70,000 dead Iraqi civilians. The intelligence used was reexamined by Sec Gates and found wanting. Bush and his crew has lied over 935 times to the American people i.e Center for Integrity and the Iraqi Report.
Subject has been done to death on this blog. Go back to Crawford with His Majesty, GWB.

Watcher of Jerks wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:37 PM:Bill[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 6:04 PM: What I do not get is why your playing this game with a waitress to begin with. Are you mentally challenged. You out to embarrass other people? Man you need to get with Asteroid take a few revolutions.

Focal Point wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:39 PM:NIE National Intelligence Estimate It is worse. He is directly and personaly responsible for all deaths, military and civilian and wounded suffered in Iraq.

Fred wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:04 PM:Why have we heard so little about expendatures for Joe the Plumber's wardrobe?

Love them papers wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:11 PM:Obamanation
[-] wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:19 PM:Yes, GREAT CALL SIGN! Although I would spell it slightly differently.

Next Wednesday papers around the world will lead with the headline:

OBAMA NATION

And will continue with;

Yes, If only Obama had staying power this would have been an Obama Nation, But as it turned out the Senator from Illinois could not keep his numbers up, Welcome to McCain Country!!

DD Wiz wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:14 PM:Tax Equity
The post from "Ron" (7:40pm) pathetically dodges the issue as he has done so many times before.
I'm not sure that he actually understands it.
Once again, I'll try to talk down to his level and make this very, very simple.

As I have before, I was responding to a point about tax unfairness by trying to put the issue in a broader, more complete context. The points I added were NOT about taxes.
I noted that, what you need to complete the picture IN ADDITION TO TAXES, is to put it into the perspective of how tax burdens relate to:
1 - total benefit received for those taxes
2 - total income from which taxes are derived
3 - total wealth being protected by those taxes as measured by total wealth (assets)

I did not say those items were on the tax forms. "Ron" just made that up, as he so often does on so many issues. While income rates commensurate with tax rates can likely be found on the Bureau of Labor Statistics web site, I'm not sure that the information on total wealth is even available. But that is what you need to support the alleged point claimed by "Ron" and "Esco Rick."
If they can't support it, then that says a lot.
If they don't even understand why they need to, that says even more.
But none of this is new, and none of this is a surprise.
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

Richard wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:08 PM:And what about the whopper lie by Cheney who said the world trade center attack was the work of Saddam Hussein?
And when Bush in person told the Australian Parliament that we protected them from an Iraqi anthrax attack, even though weeks earlier our men inspected Powell's suspected weapons sites and found them clean. Powell was later fired when he himself exposed Bush's lies.
And the Air force report that showed satellite photos of all of Iraq proving Hussein had no means whatsoever to deliver a mass weapon to the U.S. that Bush deliberately left out of an assessment he sent to senator nelson of Florida to convince him to vote for the pre-authorization to bomb Iraq?
Scott McClellan separated from Bush and announced that the war was sold like an election campaign because everything partly true was exaggerated and everything proving no reason to invade was omitted from the table.
Face it, Bush has been a pathological liar, so bad that even when he realizes he twisted the facts that he feels it was necessary anyway to get the job done.

sdraoul wrote on Oct 30, 2008 11:13 PM:Please direct us to the report of the 9/11 Commission and exactly on what page they quote Cheney as saying what you said he said. You can't.

gracchus wrote on Oct 31, 2008 8:41 AM:How about THE BOSTON GLOBE, sdraoul, concerning cheney's lie about saddam's involvement in the the events of september 11, 2001? you can find an article published september 16, 2003, which corroborate's richard's assertion about cheney.

then on the following day, september 17, 2003, gw bush acknowledged that saddam was not involved in the attack upon the united states.

try again, sdraoul, to deny that cheney lied about iraq's involvement in the terrorist atack against the united states.

Wanda wrote on Oct 31, 2008 8:52 AM:Nice try, gracchus, but sdraoul specifically asked for you to find it in the report of the 9/11 Commision.

You can even watch five deferment Dick saying it on YouTube, but sdraoul isn't going to budge.

Why even bother?

grj wrote on Oct 31, 2008 9:43 AM:looks like joe the plumber(LOL) has got his 15 minutes and then some , he has management in nashville and is appearing at many rallies The rebublican party is nothing but a series of jokes,lies,and hate.

gracchus wrote on Oct 31, 2008 11:55 AM:you're perfectly right, wanda, concerning sdraoul's challenge concerning the report from the 9-11 Commission. the vice-president's prevarications will not be documented there.

i think that sdraoul was attempting to suggest that because the report fails to mention cheney's deceptions, that there is no evidence of their existence.
i cited the article from THE BOSTON GLOBE as just one source supporting evidence that cheney lied.

if sdraoul chooses to believe that cheney is innocent of lying because the 9-11 commission did not report it, he certainly has the right to such a belief. this why when a commentator makes an assertion, i think that it is very important for him to cite his source of information. this allows anyone with an inclination to check out the source and determine for himself whether it is credible.

you have observed that the most outrageous claims declared here do not have documentation. either the commentators have taken their views from a questionable source which they're too embarrassed to acknowledge as the foundation of their opinions, or they are sharing the conjectures of their rich imaginations.

thank you for clarifying the importance of methodology in ascertaining the substances of commentaries on this site.

Wanda wrote on Oct 31, 2008 3:00 PM:Hey, gracchus, at 11:55 AM, had you not responded some innocent reader may have been led to believe sdraoul was right.

It wasn't wasted.