VISTA: Residents question new fire map

By PAUL SISSON - Staff Writer | Monday, November 3, 2008 8:08 PM PST ∞

VISTA ---- Some residents along the city's perimeter are concerned that a new fire hazard map created by the state fire department could hurt their property values and increase the cost of getting fire insurance.

The map assigns three levels of fire danger ---- moderate, high and very high ---- to properties throughout the county. Under state law, owners of homes at very high risk must disclose that before selling their properties.

The city of Vista was scheduled to adopt the new map at its meeting Tuesday, but officials postponed the matter after dozens called City Hall with complaints. More than 100 vexed residents attended the council meeting, even after the map item was removed from the agenda.

Vista Fire Chief Gary Fisher said state law requires all cities to adopt the fire risk map, both as a way of notifying residents of risk and also to allow municipalities to require better fire construction techniques and materials for new homes built in fire-prone areas.

Though there is no legal penalty or fine if the city refuses to adopt the new map, Fisher said doing so simply makes sense.

"We can't be breaking the law, even if there is no punitive recourse from Cal-Fire," Fisher said. "It's just another tool for us to help improve the safety of those folks who decide they want to live out closer to nature."

Fisher said community complaints came after his department sent out 2,500 fliers to households in or bordering areas labeled "very high" fire risks on the state's map.

"We decided, after we started getting so many people making comments, that we needed to have two more community meetings to explain more about how this works," Fisher said.

Those meetings are scheduled for Vista City Hall from 10 a.m. to noon Saturday and from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. Monday.

Several residents said this week that they're worried about how the fire-risk map will affect them.

Lora Elton, who has lived on San Clemente Avenue in northeast Vista since 1990, said she and many of her neighbors are convinced that adopting the fire map will increase the cost of fire insurance and make it more difficult to obtain coverage.

"We're already having a hard enough time getting insurance," Elton said. "To put some additional caveat on there will just make it more difficult to be insured."

She also worried that the move might hurt property values.

"If you can't get fire insurance, you won't be able to sell your property," she said.

A state law requires CalFire, California's fire and forestry agency, to design a fire map that indicates fire risk throughout the state. Cities are directed, under state code, to adopt the map as a way of helping residents and planners understand fire risk when building or protecting homes in fire-prone rural areas.

Fisher said his research indicates that the cities of Solana Beach, Del Mar, Chula Vista and Escondido have already adopted maps recommended by CalFire. Encinitas, Carlsbad, El Cajon and San Diego are still in the process of adopting the maps, he said.

Full copies of proposed maps for each city are posted on the CalFire Web site at frap.cdf.ca.gov.

Dean Cromwell, research manager for CalFire, said the maps are created with input from local fire departments who work with the agency to examine the age and density of brush throughout the state in order to determine how big a fire could get if driven by Santa Anna winds.

"It's a way of telling people there is a potential for pretty high wildfire burning through an area," Cromwell said. "It is really designed to be used as a tool."

Cromwell said he had "no idea" how the fire map might affect insurance rates or home resale values.

Samuel Sorich, president of the Association of California Insurance Companies, said Monday that, in his conversations with underwriters, he has been assured that adopting the new map will have no blanket effect on rates or coverage.

He said insurance companies do their own reasearch on a property-by-property basis.

"The maps have not played a significant role in insurance underwriting and rating," Sorich said. "The fact that a property is in a high-risk zone does not, in and of itself, mean that it will cost more."

The city of Escondido adopted a similar fire map on its own in 2007. Escondido Realtor Chuck Smiar said he has not noticed any additional pressure on sale prices or insurance rates since the map was adopted. He said that most real estate agents bring in third-party disclosure experts to examine all of the potential dangers for properties.

"I don't think we have seen much of an impact because that kind of information is already disclosed by the disclosure services that pretty much everybody uses," Smiar said.

In Vista's Shadowridge neighborhood, resident Rose Eisenberg said she was concerned that her home on Pinewood Road will soon be in the very high fire risk zone, even though it does not border on the nearby Calavera open space preserve, a large brush-covered expanse on hills in east Carlsbad.

"I'm very upset about it ---- I don't need any higher bills," Eisenberg said. "I've lived here for 20 years and never had a problem, and it's worse because it's Carlsbad's land, and they don't do anything to keep the brush down."

Contact staff writer Paul Sisson at (760) 901-4087 or psisson@nctimes.com.

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Pre-Registration Comments[-]Go to Top

Ralphie wrote on Nov 3, 2008 9:55 PM:Concerned about your property values? I can tell you who is not conerned: Vista Mayor Morris Vance. So if your home is affected by this, call him. Write him. Complain. Attend city council meetings and raise your voice in protest. Let him know what a terrible decision this is!

Jack wrote on Nov 4, 2008 4:05 AM:"Concerned?" I'll say I'm concerned! That's why I'm gonna email, write and call Mayor Vance and our councilpeople! I would advise others in my situation to do the same thing. I'm not at all happy about this. The city council meets every other tuesday night. It's on the Vista city website. We need the pack the meeting hall, neighbors! Maybe then we'll be heard! We can't afford to let this slide!

FTM wrote on Nov 4, 2008 6:34 AM:Last sentence in the article - hmmm..

Hey Rose!

Carlsbad being bad neighbor?? Really??

(What a shocker)

Ignorance isnt the solution wrote on Nov 4, 2008 6:54 AM:Ralphie, that's like an ostrich sticking it's head in the ground. It's a fact and there's not a whole lot that can be done except building areas of clearing.

Cartographer Wanted wrote on Nov 4, 2008 7:14 AM:I was hoping to see a better map here online. That one in the paper appeared to have 4 colors on the map, but only 3 in the legend. I guess one was a background color meaning "none of the above"? But two of the colors were so similar it was hard to read.

Artsyrat wrote on Nov 4, 2008 7:39 AM:Of course the problem lies with insurance as usual. Insurance companies are out of control, inconsiderate of the people who feed them and they should be boycotted! How many times do we have to hear of insurance companies being the problem or issue in circumstances? Fire, home, health, it's criminal how insurance companies can legally abuse us like they do. Their activites and ways of business should be considered illegal. Many are legal criminals.

not vistas fault wrote on Nov 4, 2008 9:52 AM:Dear Vistans; No matter what the city of vista does, your gripe should be with Calfire. Don't you think the insurance companies have already seen the reports. Act now and maintain a defensable area around your homes and whatever else you can do to protect your homes.

esteban wrote on Nov 4, 2008 1:22 PM:What’s all the crying about? If the truth hurts do something about it. Create a solution don’t sit there and cry. Not accepting it doesn’t make it less true.

Vista Watchdog wrote on Nov 4, 2008 1:40 PM:3rd attempt to post:

This is what happens when you try to draw lines with a broad brush. A new, small development is built near a High Fire Danger area, but fully meets all of the CalFire fire prevention recommendations. Yet, because CalFire does not take time to physically view each area (they leave this to the individual fire jurisdictions - City of Vista) their map will show this small new development as a High Fire Danger area.
For this reason the City needs to take the time to Physically inspect each area (especially if homeowners make the request) to determine if in fact the CalFire map is accurate. In cases wherein the map has failed to take into account the changes made by the developer or local residents, the City needs to represent its residents in getting the map changed. That is why we pay the taxes we do to our City!

VS wrote on Nov 4, 2008 2:25 PM:This map was created mostly through remote sensing and geographic information system (GIS) analysis. It is impressive for the large scale project it is but if the city of Vista does not agree they should have their GIS people talk to the folks at FRAP (who are top notch science folks) and work on a local version with ground truthing. FRAP folks are good smart people and willing to work with local govt.

Vista Watchdog wrote on Nov 4, 2008 5:03 PM:VS is correct, remote sensing is only as good as the data verification that was used to create the algorithms used to produce the final product. It is not perfect, but can be improved by greater data verification. Also, remote sensing is often dated data: i.e. images may have been gathered years ago for some areas. So, Cities need to be vigilant in their inspection of the maps as they might negatively impact some residents.

Granted, the data can also help significantly when pre-staging fire equipment or laying out escape routes, planning for emergencies, etc. But, as others have pointed out it can also be used by some to raise rates on insurance and thus hurt the property values and thus City and School District revenues.

So, citizens need to get down to City Hall and get informed about this map, and provide pictures of their homes and the surrounding land/landscape. Some of the lines can be moved/redrawn if the City deems such is needed and petitions Cal-Fire to do so. But, it takes community involvement to get these things done, and cooperation from the City Officials listening to and aiding their citizens.

to esteban wrote on Nov 4, 2008 5:09 PM:Data contained in this map is dated and needs to be validated. That is NOT crying! It is nothing more than the citizens demanding their elected officials do the due diligence required of them when representing the citizens of this community. The job of any City is to protect the general wellbeing of its citizens: even from the State or other agencies. As for creating a solution, that is exactly what the citizens are asking for: a solution to determining the accuracy of the data. Of course, from what I've read in the mailers I've received, the City too is asking the citizens to provide more accurate data so the City can make an informed decision. Thus, please get out your cameras, take pictures, and bring them to the meetings and be certain your current and accurate data is used to ensure that our City does what is right!

Hey Bulldog wrote on Nov 4, 2008 5:29 PM:emmm....Watchdog. Couldn't help the Beatles reference. I have to agree with the first two guys. City officials listening to the citizens? C'mon now! Ever BEEN to a Vista Council Meeting? LISTEN is tha LAST thing Mr. Mayor Vance does! He's too busy censoring and berating the citizens who disagree with him!! No, we need to descend on these meetings like a biblical horde of locusts and earn some media attention, methinks. SAVE OUR PRECIOUS SHADOWRIDGE!!

So...Watchdog... wrote on Nov 4, 2008 5:34 PM:...are you implying that Vista City officials have been less than vigilant? Well SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE!!!

WW wrote on Nov 4, 2008 6:20 PM:Can someone share with me where on the FRAP website I can view this recent map? I am having trouble finding it. Thanks.

FIREDOG wrote on Nov 8, 2008 10:40 AM:Lots of good points by all.
The cal fire map is only a tool to be used by city's to understand the need to clear brush, work on evacuation routs, and use fire resistant construction. The city has to take the next step to implement the process. Insurance Co. are a big problem and they should be the ones helping with this plan not threatening to cancel it. In Australia the insurance companies fund most fire departments. And historically that is the reason that the fire department was started in order to minimize property loss and save insurance companies $. But what can we do.
First off protest your property clearance, no woodpiles or flammable material near the house. Then your community the fire safe counsels are a good way to organize your community to get involved and work to gather. Finally contacting our government officials and letting them know what is really going on.
Just my 2 cents: do your part & stay safe. Firedog

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