Oh no wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:09 PM:What?! I thought it had to pass into an amendment first?! Which it won't but... i'm confused. Stupid people, why did this pass?!?!

Yes On 8 wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:09 PM:This is great news! Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid and recognized in the State of California.

to Yes on 8 wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:23 PM:Yay! More great news in a few years, here's the headline:

Only Christian White Heterosexual Males count for anything anymore!

YAY OPPRESSION!!

YAY DISCRIMINATION!!

freakin' anachronictic dolts...

Michele wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:32 PM:Celebrate hate, but tomorrow this will go to courts. Whether you allow the "word" marriage or not,there will still be gay people, families, and examples in life. Now, more than ever people will be shouting it from the rooftops, so you better believe it WILL BE "shoved down your throats". Now, more than ever we know "yes we can" and that includes EVERYONE. What's next? A ban on divorce? Living together? Atheism? I weep for this state.I struggle with how I will tell my children that half of California preaches hate in the name of God, and how separation of church and state has failed us.

Bocecea wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:36 PM:Chock one up for Jim Crow. Next they'll take away non-Christians rights to call it marriage. Be prepared and don't say we didn't warn you. They come for the minorities first...but they never stop there.

Al wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:40 PM:Marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN. Period. End of story. The people spoke, I am so glad.

To Michele wrote on Nov 5, 2008 6:52 PM:I agree with you completely. I wonder if our country will ever recognize fully,as Christ did, that all people deserve to be treated with love and caring and acceptance. I'm looking forward to the legal battles and a big change on the US Supreme Court! People are people are people...why can't the religious people see that all the wars the world over are caused when they fail to recognize that basic undeniable fact? WE all bleed red and breathe the same air and hope the same things for our families, no matter what the makeup of them happen to be. Love your kids and demonstrate and live acceptance and they will grow into fine individuals with hearts filled with loving kindness.

Wow wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:07 PM:sounds like there are some really mean ticked off people here. Why are you no on 8 people threatening us. Not only is this cyber bullying, but it is also threats.....You say you "Now, more than ever people will be shouting it from the rooftops, so you better believe it WILL BE "shoved down your throats" Well guess what that is a verbal threat and when gays start getting beaten up or God forbid worse off than that, then just remember it is a stupid comment like that one there that causes the problems.

Geez the prop passed, it is time to just live life PEACEFULLY

senior widow wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:09 PM:I think this whole thing could be settled if gay or lesbian couples would settle for the term "civil union".
I am 80 years old admitedly someone who believes that MARRIAGE is between one man and one woman. I have no wish to infringe on the sexual preference of gay or lesbian couples but I really have a firm belief re: use of the word MARRIAGE.

To Michelle wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:10 PM:Quit hiding behind God and saying that it failed in this situation. Everyone has been beating up the Christians throughout this whole thing. If you want to hate God then do it, quietly, in your own home. The separation of Church and state was not an issue on this.....it was the PEOPLE who voted, not the heads of church.

Just one question, to all the county clerks who lost their jobs for not performing same sex marriage.....SHOULD GET THEIR JOBS BACK

YES ON 8 THANK YOU GOD wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:12 PM:Just because we believe marriage is between one man and one woman DOES NOT makes us bigots. God created Adam & Eve not Adam & Steve!!! It was brought before the people in 2000 and passed and now again it has passed. What part of the people have spoken do you not get? So now since you didn't get your way you will tie this up in the court system for how long? If we did that you would be calling us more names and sore losers. Take what the people of the state has voted for and get over yourselves. It's not all about you. The state did not ban gays from having partners they just said no marriage, which is also GOD'S law

aDAMANT wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:28 PM:I'm so glad that Prop 8 passed. We need to uphold society the way it's supposed to be. Why would we teach this unorthodox behavior to kids at our schools? That would utterly confuse them. Marriage is between a man and a woman! Period. If homosexuals still want to get married, then go to another state to perform the ceremony.

lucki wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:57 PM:To: Yes on 8 Thank You God

"God's law" should not determine America's law. Keep your religion out of what is legal or not.

I shouldn't even have to mention that God's law doesn't allow for divorce (unless unfaithfulness occurs) but no one is trying to make divorce illegal. Divorce ruins the sanctity of marriage more than Prop 8 would have.

I am tired of people using the Bible to fit their agenda. You pick and chose what fits your lifestyle.

No Faith Left wrote on Nov 5, 2008 7:58 PM:This decision has completely destroyed what little faith I had left in humanity, common sense and common decency. My kids have been asking me how something so spiteful could have passed and I'm still trying to figure out the appropriate answer.

TO YES ON 8 THANK YOU GOD: This may be news to you, but God doesn't (or at least didn't) write the states laws. God can govern his domain (church) while the government should be left to rule theirs (state).

TO TO MICHELLE at 7:10 ... The people (sheep) voted the conscience of their church rather than their own. I can say this comfortably as a reformed Christian who has 'seen the light' and gained the ability to think for oneself as a result. As far as the county employees ... they deserved to lose their jobs because they failed to do their jobs. That (hopefully) hasn't changed.

TO aDAMANT: You're either an idiot or a fool if you think your kids aren't already learning the whatevers about homosexuality. If they're not getting it in schools, it's on TV or in the streets. This willful act of malicious discrimination doesn't change any of that.

TO WOW: Please take a deep breath and a valium. You obviously need to relax.

It's a sad day for any society when the private views of one dictate what is acceptable in the private life of another.

Given the obvious constitutional conflicts, this is going to get interesting for both sides.

To Wow wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:04 PM:"Shove down your throats" was used on your side and is being thrown back at you. You are so opposed to learning about other lifestyles but actually changed the law to fit yours. Will you accept it as "God's Will" if it gets overturned? What if the absentee ballots tie it up???? BTW I LOVE GOD, and in fact told my kids the story about Jesus, "Let he without sin cast the first stone." Prop 8 is a BOULDER that has been thrown on good innocent people whose only crime is love. I would rather try and explain homosexuality to my kids (which I had to thanks to all the YES protests) than legalized bigotry and hate. And, since it was THE CHURCHES that financed this I say the next prop is to remove the tax exempt status.

WEAR BLACK TOMORROW wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:05 PM:Mourn the death of equality!!!!!

warning wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:06 PM:I find it interesting that the No on 8 people who are demanding that we validate their lifestyles and be "tolerant" are the same ones who painted swastikas on the Yes on 8 signs in our area of Oceanside. They are the same ones that swore at us when we waved our signs...

It comes down to this - the people voted back in 2000 that only marriage between a man and a woman was valid in California. 61% of us said so. You whined and took it to court where 4 liberal judges eventually threw it out. It is not the court's job to legislate from the bench. We did the work to put it on the ballot as an amendment specifically because we wanted something the courts could not mess with. If you felt that gay marriage should be the law, why didn't you get to work and collect the required signatures to put it on the ballot and let the people decide? That is the American way.

Why is it wrong for people to want to preserve the traditional family? I don't get why that makes me a hateful person. I have friends and family that are gay. I treat all people with respect and teach my kids to do the same. Those same four judges that struck down prop 22 also stated in their findings that gay couples already have the same rights through civil unions. Why is that not enough? Having a mom and dad provides the stability children need. Gay or straight, we all benefit from having a mom and a dad.

As for Christ, He truly did love everyone. Yes, He even hung out with the sinners. If you've read the Bible, you know that he loved the sinner but then taught righteous principles and said, "Go and sin no more". He didn't say "I'm cool with whatever" and even He had limits (like when He cleared the temple of the vendors and money changers by force). With or without religion, the traditional family is the keystone of any society and needs to be treasured and defended.

Hate wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:10 PM:I said, the only hate i know of is those that hate God and his believers.

blm wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:36 PM:I'm sorry to see $60M wasted on this whole topic, where one group tries to make another believe and live like they do. Giraffes don't expect alligators to live like Giraffes, mice don't expect raccoons to live like mice, and so on. Live an let live as long as it isn't causing someone harm. Gay couples having the same STATE financial rights as straight couples wasn't hurting anybody. The strength of the 'traditional family' so often quoted by the 8 proponents is based on a strong working partnership of two adults committed to being good parents, not on the mechanics of how they make love. Bad parents can be any combination of sex, and bad parents that are heterosexual are still bad parents. If the issue was ever really "protecting the kids", everybody has taken their eye off the ball here and focused on the superficial issue of sexual preference rather addressing the root cause: Being better parents. I'd rather have seen the $60M spent on making a DPV, Department of Parental Validation, where training and a test are required in order to become parents in the first place.

Skip wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:41 PM:I was just happy to see the California Teachers Association lose 1.3 Million dollars. I certainly hope the taxpayers will remember that the next time the union goes looking for money.

Yeah I know it was for the "children".

Hmmmm wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:47 PM:I never painted swastikas but got my car keyed, had my sign slashed by a man with a knife, and saw a GIRL shoved into oncoming traffic and beat by....the loving "YES" people.

PROOF wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:48 PM:All these posts validate that these are religious based decisions and opinions which have no place in PUBLIC law. What will you do when Muslims are the majority? Bend to their beliefs?

To to wow... wrote on Nov 5, 2008 8:56 PM:How can the gay community NOT be shoving this down our throats (which by the way was copied by a no on 8 post). You have the gay pride parade, dressing up like drag queens. Good heavens, this is NOT normal. This is not how a relationship is.... THat is simply...GEE LOOK AT ME!!! That is what is shoving things down peoples throat. I too had to talk to my kids when my child came home and asked if this means SHE has to marry a woman....Good God people. This is affecting our chilren. And before all the blasters start I explained to her COMPLETELY what it means. All I meant was this prop passed it is over, I don't want any more threats, cyber bullying or God forbid someone being hurt over such political BS. Live for peace.

To PROOF wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:17 PM:Shhh! Don't give 'em any ideas!

well said wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:51 PM:Agree w/ warning. The People have spoken. TWICE.

Leave marriage alone.

Dawn wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:58 PM:It amazes me that in just one election, all on the same ballot, the majority of Californians voted for a black man for president, humane rights for animals, but discrimenation towards gays. Two steps forward and one step back. I cried when Obama won last night and felt that this nation had finally turned the corner, but cried this morning to find that gays are not included yet.

Sad - To To The Wow wrote on Nov 5, 2008 9:59 PM:Your child asked if she had to marry a woman? Ok, so tell her "No, you don't have to" End of story. Is your daughter upset, is she scarred for life? I bet she's just fine. I'm sure you have been a good parent and explaining this to her is just a part of life. How is this "affecting" her? I would love for one person to tell me how any same sex marriage has destroyed the sanctity of their own marriage. I am a gay women in a committed monogamous relationship for almost 10 years. We have a beautiful little girl who is the most amazing child ever. We work hard, earn our money and provide a home for our child. We try to live good peaceful lives and don't hurt anyone. What have we ever done...what has my child ever done that we are not equal in your eyes. I just don't understand the hate. It is a sad day.

Gee wrote on Nov 5, 2008 10:03 PM:I never dressed in drag or appeared in any parades, but do you really think those who do will stop because you took a piece of paper away? In fact, you just robbed the monogomous ones so all that is left is people who can live provocatively...and now they have a reason to be louder about it. You just negated your purpose people.

To To To Wow wrote on Nov 5, 2008 10:06 PM:Duh, it was in quotes " " to show it had been quoted by yes...I'd hate to see someone shove their views on anyone, like...I don't know...writing a law that changes the constitution...

Legal Beegle wrote on Nov 5, 2008 10:47 PM:Stop the anger and hate here. We live in a civil society and we can solve this. Each side needs to step into the shoes of the other and just feel. Nothing more. We have a terrific and special man for President. He WILL change the makeup of the US Supreme Court. By the time this case gets there, we will all know the question is moot, done and over with. Equality will prevail. Peace brothers & sisters.

Confused wrote on Nov 5, 2008 11:46 PM:We should just do like in the UK. Government conducts civil unions for all couples; churches, temples, etc conduct marriages. Everyone wins.

Equal Misery to ALL wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:06 AM:If half of the state can be miserable in a marriage, gays and lesbians should as well.

JSten wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:16 AM:I don't think either side should figure that this is over. It is just getting started.

52% vs 48% is not much of a margin.

Tom wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:38 AM:It's a poor system that allows the state Constitution to be changed by a simple majority.

bodecea wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:20 AM:Prop Hate has passed. Jim Crow lives in California.

Now it's time to pass a Constitutional amendment to remove churches' tax-exempt status. It will help with the state budget problem too. Just think what the Mormons/Catholics' 40 million dollars would have done to help our budget.

Not a hate issue wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:41 AM:Gays have civil unions (OK with that) Followers of God's laws believe in marriage between a man and a woman. (Ok with that) What seems to be the problem here? California courts must not legislate from the bench. The people have spoken twice.

The ONLY hate I see --- wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:09 AM:Is the hatred that the gay community is showing for the MAJORITY.

will open doors wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:17 AM:If gay marriage is allowed then it will open doors for people to marry a sibling, a teen, 20 people at one time, an animal, you name it you can marry it.

Did not Vote yes on 8 because of Gods Law.

question... wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:30 AM:You know it really has nothing to do with religion or hate...its nature. Its biological. Get mad at science. Science created a man and womans body to fit together and provide seed and egg to form a baby! You can't change that fact just like you can't change what the definition of marriage is. California has domestic partnerships and civil unions that come with some of the same rights as married couples. Whats wrong with that?

Damn wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:37 AM:now we gays have to continue to pay single income tax same as singles:(

Lady wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:38 AM:LEAVE it alone alreay. This should NEVER had even been on our Ballots. LAW is LAW LET IT go !!!! Gays & Les. NEED something else to do, go feed the homeless,help people IN NEED. JUST because "they" don't like something the REST of US have TO keep hearing about. IT'S DONE,go find something TO DO

YES on 8.....

If only... wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:02 AM:if only the machinery of county government worked so ceaselessly to uphold ALL of the ballot measures before they were made into actual laws. Prop 215 is still stymied by the refusal of the county to issue ID cards after being passed in 1996! I guess the COUNTY is only interested in adhering to those Props. it likes, voters be damned.

constitutional amendement wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:06 AM:Our federal constitution cannot be amended with anything less that a two-thirds majority. Maybe we should do the same in California. I agree that the 52.5 to 47.5 is close but the majority still wins.

Prop 8 IS about discrimination wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:13 AM:And thank you, Mormon Church, for dumping $20 million dollars into creating a whole swath of second-class citizens. Absolutely disgusting. The Mormons who took part in this should be ashamed of themselves.

why atttack religions wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:14 AM:"Now it's time to pass a consitutional adementment to remove the churches tax exempt status..." Ok so first you want the majortiy of the Vote yes on 8 crowd to just roll over and accept your life style. Now you want to blame the churches and attack God... It's done, get over it , move on.

What comes around wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:17 AM:Mormons supported prop 8 to narrowly redefine marriage.

I say we redefinde Christian in the state constitution to exclude Mormons. It would pass by far more than 52%. Protect traditional Christianity.

Do we get wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:27 AM:our money back?

Arlo wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:30 AM:Minorities? Are gays minorities? No, it is a lifestyle, not a race, not a sex. It is a decision to live a lifestyle.

Gloating is sad wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:35 AM:But I want to do it anyways! I've been listening to the no-on-8 crowd spew hate and bigotry against relious people for too long. The MAJORITY spoke, made the right decision, please, stop crying and face reality. ...

To What Comes Around wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:50 AM:I support your cause!

Ricardo wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:52 AM:Why has NC Times disabled comments for other stories about Obama? anyone notice that? Is this some kind of censorship?

RCH wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:56 AM:You people speak as if Homosexuality is a Race. Here's a news flash, It's not a race it's a lifestyle CHOICE. You cry foul at teaching the Bible in schools, but want to teach your lifestyle. Here's something else, without new recruits homosexuality is destined for extinction for obvious reasons. If you want to live that way, that's your business, but don't try to teach it in our schools as a viable lifestyle unless you are willing to teach the Bible right next to it. It is not "HATE" to have a different opinion. This issue has been voted on multiple times with the same outcome. The Bible or religion had nothing to do with my yes vote.

Bigotry wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:59 AM:As a supporter of proposition 8, I learned that bigotry against religions is alive and well in California, particularly by the opposition to the constitution amendment that defines marriage as being between a man and a woman.

Chubton wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:00 AM:What's wrong with separate but equal rights?

To lucki wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:04 AM:God's law has always been the basis for the law of the United States. You've clearly studied neither topic, have you? There is NO such thing as "separation of church and state" in the constitution. I bet you have no idea where that phrase comes from do you? And you use it out of context.

Here we go again wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:21 AM:NCT is having a ball re-running this subject so you all keep spouting the same BS. This chapter is closed. Another will be opened in the US Supreme Court. I hope you yes on 8 people know you've opened the door to make this a federal mandate that individual states cannot discriminate......

Mormon Pioneers in California wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:25 AM:Mormon pioneers were among the first American settlers when California became a territory of the United States. Mormons settled in San Francisco (then called Yerba Buena) in 1846, San Diego in 1847, and San Bernardino in 1851. In 1857, many Mormons left California because the short-lived Utah War waged on the Utah Mormons by the United States. The Mormons who remained in California lacked the resources, experience, and organization to continue the church. Significant Mormon congregations formed in the 1920's as members migrated from Utah to California. After WWII, significant numbers of Mormons remained in California at the end of their military service. The anti-Mormon bigotry displayed in the comments on this article is not new to the Mormon people. Many Mormons participated, as requested by the church, in the campaign in favor of Proposition 8, as is their individual right as citizens of this state. However, the Mormon Church did not fund Proposition 8. Further, it is virtually impossible for anyone to discern from campaign reports what campaign contributions came from individuals who are members of the Mormon faith.

I voted yes wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:27 AM:but if they introduced legislation tomorrow offering a "civil union" giving the same rights as married couples.. Id also vote yes. Im NOT religous.. but the term marriage is a sacred term to the religous "right".. gays should respect that and use their own term for civil unions. It IS unfair that they do not have the opportunity to have a civil unions giving them all the rights of a married coupled... but it would be just as unfair to the religous right to give into a minorities demands for something that is contradictory to the literal term. Bible thumpers love their religion.. and they have the right to defend their dogma.

To all supporters on Prop 8 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:29 AM:When the African Americans were fighting for equal rights was that shoving their agenda down your throats? How is a white drinking fountain and black drinking fountain any different than the discrimination of gay domestic partnership and straight marriage? If protecting your children from gay marriage was the porpose of this prop why did I see so many parents out on the street corners using their children as political pawns.
The sanctity of marriage will not be ruined if the gays can marry, as the divorce rate is already at 50% (which is forbiden in the bible).
The US supreme court has already rules separate is not equal (Brown V. Board of Education) also in 1948 the court ruled against banning interracial marriages (Perez V. Sharp). The constitution guarantees freedom for all in the 14th amendment.
California is one of the most diverse states in the US but still we want to discriminate against some that help make up this state. “As long as the differences and diversities of mankind exist, democracy must allow for compromise, for accommodation, and for the recognition of differences.” - Eugene McCarthy

The sanitiy of marriage will not be ruined if the gays can marry, as the divorce rate is already at 50% (which is forbiden in the bible).

To Arlo wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:32 AM:Yeah right, it's a lifestyle. Forget science with proof that their is a biological difference between gay and strait people. Oh, that's right, the earth is only 8-thousand years old and was once flat...... Pull your head out.....

Change the Rules wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:35 AM:How do we get the non-profit status taken away from the churches?

Since its a rule, I'm sure there are ways to change it again.

An idea wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:38 AM:For those of you that think civil unions are the solution. How would you like it if we made all heterosexual couples only be allowed CIVIL UNIONS. How would that make you feel? You wouldn't like it. It doesn't mean the same thing, does it. So stop pushing for civil unions. I'd rather remain domestic partners if we are to remain second class citizens. Civil unions ARE NOT the answer, people.

The word and meaning with MARRIAGE means something to us just as it does you. Please respect that just like I respect you're wanting marriage.

We the People wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:43 AM:have voted on this issue twice now and obviously the people of California do not support immoral behavior nor do we appreciate four judges of the California supreme court over turning what has already been voted down by "We The People". SO LISTEN UP--God wiped Sodom & Gomorrah off the face of the earth for not turning from their immoral behavior and the USA is traveling down the same road.

To Arlo wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:46 AM:Oh, I noticed my mispelling of Their, should be there... I hope to get this in before the spelling police catch me.....

To An idea wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:55 AM:Well to answer your question.. as a nopn religous heterosexual married male. Id be perfectly fine with a "Civil union" be the defining term for my marriage.. ID ACTUALLY PREFER IT!! What I have with my wife has NOTHING to do with religion and everything to do with my relationship with her. Unfortunately I dont have the choice of a non religous civil union.. its sad you fail to see that asking to be merried instead of the alternative makes you a part of something that despises you.. the religous institution.

To Change The Rules wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:58 AM:Your anti-religious bigotry can be effected by changing the US Constitution, which reads, 'Congress shall make no law . . . prohibiting the free exercise thereof [of religion]; or abridging the freedom of speech.'. Such an amendment would need to be ratified by 3/4 of the states. Such an effort would be doomed to failure!

Yes Yes Yes wrote on Nov 6, 2008 9:30 AM:Thank God, Prop 8 Passed... Marriage is between Man and Woman, and No One Else..The People have Spoke. And How wonderful for our children not to be taught this in school... You can a have union or whatever, but not our Word (Marriage) you know in your Heart and Head it is not a Marriage... So Lets Live our Lives ..

Marriage defenders wrote on Nov 6, 2008 9:53 AM:Thank God Prop 8 passed. Now maybe my wife will come back to me. She left me because all of The Gays attacked our marriage and the California Supreme Court wouldn't defend marriage.

bodecea wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:03 AM:To To lucki,

Really? God's law has been the basis of American law? Then you are all under arrest for Bearing False Witness in the "Yes on Hate" (10 Commendments)

Ralphie wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:03 AM:This did NOTHING to affect gay rights or the right to be gay. Everyone is entitled to their happiness when they find it. This was not about happy wedded bliss. It was about homosexual marriage. California said NO to homosexual marriage. All "gay," which is to say "Happy" couples have retained their status. PLEASE do not confuse the word gay for homosexual. Please stop raping my language, okay?

bodecea wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:06 AM:How about this....ONLY those churches who contributed to "Yes on Hate" are allowed to use the term "marriage"....copyright it. The rest of us use "Civil Union."

Then they can be the minority.

While we take away their tax-exempt status by CA proposition.

dave wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:13 AM:No worries--the holy messigh will take care of everything

Im DONE wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:15 AM:...reading stories & blogs about Prop 8. I agree with the other blogger, it's over, done, finished; move onto another story NC Times. This is the last story I'll read with a Prop-8 headline; deal with reality and the decision the people made.

Revoke the Exempt wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:36 AM:With some of these churches donating money to yes on 8, they should be investigated and tax exempt status should be REVOKED!

Mary wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:38 AM:I voted yes on 8 because I am a momma bear protecting my cubs! So I will continue the fight against immorality. But I do not hate the sinner for I am one myself, I hate the sin. And I will continue to teach my cubs to respect others, but that there is wrong and right. There is a difference between using your judgement and being judgemental.

esteban wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:52 AM:Yes on prop 8. Don't the gays and lesbians know that they are being saved from alimony since divorce rates are at 50%. Live togetherthe law doesnt prevent gays and lesbians from doing that. Its having your cake and eating it too. Think about it.

Nick 2 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:12 AM:re; To all supporters on Prop 8
DON"T YOU DARE compare the fight for the African Americans rights with some cross dressing crybaby need to feel excepted by main stream. You have some serious gall to compare the lynchings, burnings and murders that took place against innocent people to the plight of people who chose to go against the grain of society. The African Americans deserved equal rights just on the merit of their suffering and tenacity. I have not seen one homosexual hanging from a tree by his or her neck nor have I seen one dragged from their home and beaten to death in front of their family. God forbid this ever happens to ANYONE again but to compare the two you should be ashamed of yourself. And before anyone starts spouting off about the few incidents that did take place don't even go there. Theirs went on for at least 100 years.

Not Over wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:16 AM:ACLU and other groups have already filed suit. The Supreme Court's decision in May declared gays and lesbians to be a "protected class". This means you misguided religious zealots can't just take away their fundamental rights. Savor your victory while you can.

Vindication wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:17 AM:Vindication?

Gay folks cannot marry, and no one can drink at the beach.

To Mary wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:21 AM:Read the letter in today's Californian. Now that woman is a REAL Mama Bear.

To Nick 2 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:24 AM:Just because gays have not been hung in public etc. etc. etc., that means they dont have the same rights as blacks.

Guess for women, no more voting for them, japanese, get back to your camps, Indians, get back to the plains.

To Nick2 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:24 AM:Google Matthew Shepherd, Laramie...plus the comparison comes in that the reasons AGAINST race at that time was the same, that it was "immoral" and God did not approve...the same reasons are being used for gays who are BORN that way and have no choice. Hitler executed over 1 million known homosexuals during the holocaust. The difference now is that people no longer need to hide who they truly are, or so we thought.

call me Johnson wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:25 AM:To Nick 2,

First of all, cross-dressers aren’t all gay, it’s called transvestite, and many are strait men. Second, ever hear of Matthew Sheppard? ...

To Nick 2 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:31 AM:Game, Set, Match.

Go back to your hole.

anotherview wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:32 AM:Let us agree that many homosexuals bond in lasting human relationships, and that these true relationships deserve our respect if not tolerance. Yet, the institution of marriage reserves itself for another relationship, that of a bonding between two adults, man and woman, both fertile, to procreate and further the human race via this natural family. Same-gender homosexuals, no matter their relationship, can never truly enter this realm. Nevertheless, modern society must provide rights and protections for homosexual relationships. California does so by civil means short of marriage. Homosexuals must recognize the limitations of their homosexual relations. After all, neither the furtherance of civilization nor the existence of the human race have ever depended on homosexuality, but instead always on heterosexuality and the fundamental social unit of a family which only heterosexual relations may generate. The state has an interest in this role in order to preserve the population as one procreating for the continuation of humanity. In addition, defining marriage outside its traditional and practical purpose to satisfy homosexual desires adds nothing useful to the fabric of society. As a compromise, however, the alternative of a civil union for homosexuals gives this class an adequate legal basis for securing their homosexual relations. Reserving marriage to heterosexuals does not discriminate against the homosexual class because the normative purpose of marriage for a natural family requires a heterosexual relationship. Homosexuals cannot fulfill this purpose. Only heterosexuals may do so. Hence, looking first at the authentic value of marriage removes this institution from the false assumption that it grows from a civil right. In fact, as always, the act of marriage cements the view of family as consisting of a man and a woman procreating. Homosexuals want marriage not for this purpose but for the validation of homosexual relations as a normative behavior. The New York Times reports that “More than 40 states now have constitutional bans or laws against same-sex marriage.“ (6 Nov. 2008) Marriage still means the union of a man and a woman.

To Nick 2 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:32 AM:Seriously? Even Obama codemned discrimination against sexual orientation in his acceptance speech. Many face discrimination for different reasons. The outcome is the same, but it doesn'y make any one person's struggle less valid. Those that have felt this need to unite rather than fight. You are backing the very mentality that approved lynchings which generally happened in the school/churchyard.

GO RENT wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:34 AM:The Laramie Project. It's not about promoting a lifestyle, but showing how a loving family can be affected by the hatred. People even showed up at this poor kid's funeral, "Christians" with signs saying he deserved to die. Good God people, make your personal journey with Christ your own and leave the judgment in the heavens.

to esteban wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:38 AM:Good point Esteban. That's the first comment i read that i actually liked. Tired of reading about religious views in the world. Religion is nothing but drama. It's caused more drama in the world then anything. Whats done is done. Get over it and move on people.

To Nick 2 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:51 AM:Please get off this blog forever!

To Mormon Pioneers wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:59 AM:9-11 is one of the worst days in US History.

On 9-11-1857 John Lee a mormon, under the direction of Brigham Young massacred 120 "non-believers". He waived a white flag and offered them protection and then quickly shot the men women and older children. The younger children were abducted and all of the settlers belongings were stolen.

This is a matter of fact and history. So go ahead and talk about your pioneers.

You know there is so much more that you would not like to discuss.

So now once again in 2008, the mormons have attacked the non-believers with prop 8.

elle wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:01 PM:You people and your "equality", that is such crap. You will never be happy. You cry that you have been discrimminated against...boo hoo. Quit your complaining and accept the fact that California recognizes that marriage is between a man a woman. You keep throwing your distorted views of religion in the mix, read the entire bible, stop reading selective scriptures. Even people who don't believe in what the Bible teaches know that marriage is between a man a woman. The two puzzle pieces fit together........unlike in a gay relationship.
Yes, the sancitity of marriage would be ruined if gays were allowed to marry. True, it would not affect me personally-your choice to sin. Who it would affect is children! It is not normal to be gay, that is not how we were created to be. For children to be raised thinking so will confuse them more then they need! For those of you clinging to the statistic of divorce.....what does that have to do with your gay unions? That is irrelevant to the issue. And to keep saying divorce is forbidden.......you people are out there! Again selective reading in Gods word. Are you to scared to read it in its entirety that you just might get saved and have to humble yourselves admitting that you are wrong?

Nick 2 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:10 PM:What happened to Shepard was a horrible and unforgiving act but, again to compare that with the plight of the African Americans? Please. And yes I'm going back to my hole now with the other 52% majority in the state and the 63 % of the nation.

Anotherview; Very well put!

Wes wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:11 PM:President Elect Barrack Obama ended a quite eloquent acceptance speech by saying GOD bless America. What GOD is he speaking of? Well, traditionally I would think he is talking about the GOD of the bible. So many want to ignore that but we still AS A NATION bind ourselves to the GOD of the bible. Like it our not if this IS the GOD we speak of than same sex marriage is a sin. Sin is punishable by death. Not my words, GODS word. We ALL are sinners, so we are saved by Jesus blood, IF we believe in Him and TURN from our sin. To be in blatant Sin is to call Him a liar. God is not mocked, he wrote His Word for all to hear. If we choose as a nation to not follow His Word than as a nation we are no longer under His covering. We have to accept the Whole Word of God, not pick and choose. As I keep hearing from the No on prop 8 people "Like it or not" if we choose Sin as a nation than we can no longer end very eloquent speeches with "God bless America". Please hear me, it is not about Hate, it is about Righteousness and wanting the blessings of God that ONLY come from following the FULL counsel of GOD. I agree with President elect Barrack Obama on this One thing, "May GOD bless America!"

Tennessee Tuxedo wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:13 PM:I demand to hear more details about the gay penguins.

Todays Paper wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:14 PM:Nation steps forward, state steps back

Today is a day of mixed emotion: joy that we have entered an era of change as a country and yet, as a state, we've been launched back into the pre-civil rights era. Many have struggled with how to explain homosexuality to their children when ironically in these last few months, it has been thrust upon us by those who oppose it. Now, I struggle with how to explain to my children how a government can discriminate against those with differences and how our biblical teachings to be compassionate to all and leave judgment to God have been replaced by self-righteous hate.

If a gay couple marries, it does nothing to my marriage at home. The legal and moral objection to homosexuality now will tear 17,000 homes apart and prevent new families from coming together. Many have said they do not want other lifestyles thrust upon them. Only those families directly affected truly know this pain. What is next on the agenda, I wonder? Can we legally ban divorce? Co-habitation? Age differences? I pray that our Supreme Court will do the job intended by our Constitution and my children will live in a country where all people are truly created equal.

Sold them All wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:18 PM:Nick2, who sold the africans as slaves first?

Thats right, they sold themselves.

Jerimiah wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:22 PM:To those who think that marriage between a man and woman is something strictly promoted by churches, here's a quote from Aristotle written about 350 BC. "In the first place there must be a union of those who cannot exist without each other; namely of male and female, that the race may continue (and this is union which is fomed, not of deliberate purpose, but becaus , in common with other animals and with plants, mankind have a natural desire to leave behing them an image of themselves). On the relationships between a man and woman, the first thing to arise is family."

To elle wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:28 PM:Hmmm, I read the whole word of God. I don't see in the Bible where any one sin is greater than another except that the top ten were given to Moses and...surprise, homosexuality did not even make the top ten list. What is the final word of God and from Jesus' lips, not some scripture written by one of his followers, is that WE do not judge. Plus, you practice under the assumption that others practice your religion and consider it a sin to begin with..faulty my dear. Kids are no more confused that some kids may have two dads than my son was confused trying to explain why his friend's parents are divorced, or why another only has a mom, or grandma. Teach them to respect differences whether they agree with them or not and that should clear up any and all confusion. Live and let live. If your religion prohibits you from exposure to other religions or lifestyles I suggest homeschooling.

ARISTOTLE wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:31 PM:OMG!!!! Homosexuality was rampant in greek society!!!!!!! Naturally, we need procreation to exist. Luckily, we are overpopulated and God made some, not all homosexuals. Good try though!

to Wes wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:32 PM:Hate to break it to you but there are no gods. Belief in the invisible and supernatural are concepts invented by humans.

Also, there are no hobbits, elves, fairies, angels, leprechauns, or Loch Ness monsters.

(The Geico lizard is not real either.)

call me Johnson wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:33 PM:To Nick 2,
We are hopefully a little more enlightened where lynchings are a thing of the past. I’m sure there are enough people with hate in their blood that wish they could go back to the good ‘ol days stringing people up who don’t agree with them or dare to be proud of their differences. It’s sad when people repeat history even if in a contemporary setting. We’ve taken a few steps back, but we will continue to grow. Unfortunately it takes time because some people are too inflexible to evolve. It takes your children or grandchildren to see the absurdity in their “elders” ways. It will be a sad day when the children you claim you are protecting out you for the bigot you are and distance themselves from your relationship. You will only be older and angrier in a self-manifested loneliness.

Inevitable wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:35 PM:Just as it has become legal for whites to marry non-whites and for blacks and women to vote in this country, gay marriage will eventually become legal as it is in other more advanced democracies.

Sally wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:38 PM:The homosexuals are quick to say religion should pay "no part" in public policy, yet they gathered in a church prior to the vote on Proposition 8 to pray for its failure. That's a real credibility problem.

GSA wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:39 PM:Can't wait!!!! GSA starts again on Friday at the high school. Thanks YES for giving us a reason!!!!!! GAY STRAIGHT ALLAINCE!!! And before you protest, we have just as much right as students as does the campus Christian Club...get rid of us and the other goes down.THANK YOU YES for putting it back in the schools!!!!

To Sally wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:43 PM:If you want to talk credibility, the church has many issues there. Remember all those boys that were ruined? Remember the billions the church had to pay out?

north county resident wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:44 PM:If you read the news and the blogs, it seems that it's the "no on prop 8" people who are spreading hate. They are the aggressors, attacking elderly, committing theft, and making threats. THEY are the ones promoting hate and committing crimes!

Wes to RE Wes wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:46 PM:Funny, I do like that lizard.
However, I guess that man just elected President of the United States believes in the Gieco Lizard too!

To Sally wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:51 PM:Homosexuals can be Christian, sometimes moreso that heterosexuals that have sex before marriage, get divorced, or break any one of the ten commandments...how can that be????? How can sinners be Christian? Oh, yeah...that's why Jesus died on the cross. Somebody should have told him not to waste his time since we have propositions to set it right.

new word Garriage wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:57 PM:Gay Marriage. Now everyone can have their own label

Sarah wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:59 PM:I think what we've heard and seen from the state of Mass. I believe that YES on prop 8 was a good idea. Its not a matter of hate, its a matter of "bride and groom" not being "party A and party B" Yes some beliefs of married couples does come from the bible, and GOD and Jesus does love gay and lesbians; however, I do believe that those who simply want to without religious beliefs involved do not want their rights taken away. I thought they made a "Domestic Parnership" thing? Isn't that a special privilage for gay and lesbian? I understand a lot more of like insurance comapanies etc, are recognizing it. So I guess in a sense you have a special privilage,a man and woman cannot get a domestic partnership? Should we hate against this, no. Let us that believe in marriage between a man and woman have that. What about people against us, I feel abused, like I'm not intended to have my values held high? People in society just can't be happy, if its one thing its another. You give someone half of your dinner, but they want more. Enjoy the fact that you can be free in public in America kissing and holding hands and show PDA, where in some other countries you could be killed for that. I have kids and if they grow and and become gay I will still love them BUT I don't think that when I took them to ZOO a bit ago there was a gay parade and my 7 year old read a sign and asked me what ?dike? meant. I think that stuff should not be worries for children when they are young or even know about that stuff until they are in their teens, save a childs innocence, they grow up much too fast in the first place and much more important things too learn.

call me Johnson wrote on Nov 6, 2008 12:59 PM:It's not my intention to sound condescending when I say I’m proud of you GSA.
It makes me happy to see the youth being much more open mined than the previous generations. The demographics of the protesters showed the no on 8’ers were young adults on their own accord. This generation supported President Elect Obama showing the power of involved youth. The yes on 8’ers subjected their innocent young children to protest for something they couldn’t understand. The no on 8’ers will have their hands full as do all generations. They will be opposed by a group of naïve youth who will grasp onto their parent’s archaic views out of habit without reason.

To North County wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:02 PM:I think there are extremists on both sides. I attended a rally in Temecula where the "NO" side was being extremely respectful and peace-loving. A girl was thrown into oncoming traffic, a man took a knife to cut the "NO" signs, and the police did nothing. The gay community has always been about peace and rainbows. The volatile reponses came after defense of being attacked. I think there are some "YES" people that are good Christians that believe they are doing the right thing, however whenever you single out a group, label them, and demand different treatment hate ensues. I think both groups are feeling the effects of this right now, but prop 8 stirred the pot.

OMG wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:03 PM:As an african american I am so tired of gay people trying to assert themselves as a minority like black people. When I walk into a room full of white people, its obvious that my skin color differs. The question on their mind is not what I do in my bedroom or whom I am attracted to. Who you choose to have "sex" with is not a question on any application that you fill out. You stand out because of your behavior. If gay men acted like men and gay woman acted like women, you wouldn't feel any "discrimination" like I do. What you do behind closed doors is none of my business. But stop trying to compare yourself to black people. You don't have a clue what its like!

To Wow wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:07 PM:Where do you live that you and your kids have had to endure gay pride parades and transexuals? South Beach? Give me a break. We were at Disney on red shirt day and my kids didn't even notice!

To Sally wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:19 PM:I'm not homosexual, but I FIRMLY believe that religion should play NO PART in public policy.

Keep it around for your personal use if you need to, but there are too many different believers & non-believers to allow any one God dictate anything to everybody.

to Wes wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:31 PM:Very well said.

God doesn't hate the sinner, he hates the sin. Big difference. Nothing to do w/hating the homosexuals, but what they practice. We can justify or pick and choose what we want from the Word of God, but ultimately we ALL are going to be accountable to ONE.

bodecea wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:53 PM:This is what I saw:

Christians BEARING FALSE WITNESS wagging their collective fingers at homosexuals for their perceived sin.

Christians saying "For God's Sake, protect the children from hearing about Homosexual Marriage!" as they dragged them out of school and used them as props on street corners to protest Homosexual Marriage.

Christians demanding that the secular government adhere to their religious biases..while failing to pay their fair share of taxes.

Christians wagging their fingers at those going to the courts for legal redress...showing their COMPLETE IGNORANCE at how our legal system works and how the majority does not always have the right or power to bulldoze over the minority just because they think they are "sinful" (a totally subjective term)

Christians whose Jesus said that a camel had more chance to fit thru the eye of a needle than a rich man had chance to get into heaven spending $40 million dollars on eliminated the rights of fellow law-abiding, tax-paying citizens.


That about sums it up....Be ashamed, California, that enough of you fell for their flim flam......for now.

Question wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:57 PM:Whats odd is if you read the sign on the door, it says it is it cannot issue new licenses now.

If I'm not mistaken, doesnt it take effect in 2009?

sikofit wrote on Nov 6, 2008 1:59 PM:Life expectancy of a gay male: 42 years, less with AIDS. Does anyone want that for their son?

to sikofit wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:10 PM:Sikofit, do you have any facts to back yourself up with?

To Question at 157pm wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:34 PM:The amendment to the constitution takes effect immediately. There is no waiting period.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:48 PM:Why is it that the gay community, many of which claim to be athiest or at the very least anti-christian and anti-mormon are so worried about being denied the right to have a religious ceremony called "Marriage" performed on them in order for their unions to be valid? What is wrong with a Civil Union? Is that not good enough for you? Does it not provide the same benefits as the religious ceremony we call "Marriage"?

Marriage is an institution created by G-D for the union of a man and a woman. If you do not believe in G-D then why are you so worried about being denied this ceremony?

Sounds like a bunch of sour grapes to me. Whiney li'l brats that don't get their way stomp their feet and act like they are entitled to something they cannot have... hoping that their tantrums will get them what they want.
Just like a kid in a store that makes a fuss when mommy wont buy them the "shiney" they so desperately want and NEED.

We have voted twice now against this. Accept that, move on with your lives and grow up.

bodecea wrote on Nov 6, 2008 2:54 PM:To sikofit,

Well, if you voted for Prop Hate, you've just kept such a son from being encouraged to be monogamous. Congratulations on being a total tool for the Religious Right.

Honest wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:00 PM:A couple of points many "no" people are missing here.

First, many of you think that a 52% victory (will probably be higher when all of the absentee ballots are counted)somehow makes Prop 8's passage less legitimate. Well, I'm sure most of you are Obama supporters. Well, he won only 52% of the popular vote. Do you think his presidency is not legitimate?

Second, like it or not, our country was founded on religious principles and morals. All of these wonderful freedoms we enjoy are a result of religion. Furthermore, secularism is just another religion. The US constitution says that the government will not establish a state religion. Therefore, we should resist attempts to make securlarism the state religion.

Brad wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:10 PM:Why is the COUNTY clerk not giving out licenses anymore? This is a STATE issue!

Goose and gander thing...again!

to sikofit wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:14 PM:Didn't realize aids was limited to homosexuals...by all means I want to let my son live a meaningless lovesless life, or better yet force himslef to marry a woman he doesn't love only to have it end in divorce most likely with children in the mix. Life expectancy of lesbians?????

So Cal Native wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:14 PM:Can't all you gays get over it now. California has spoken again defining marriage between and man and woman not, adam and adam. Get over it!! You gays always complain about everything, me, me, me and what I am not getting. Get over it. OUR CHILDREN ARE PROTECTED NOW from your lifystyle!!

The people wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:17 PM:not religion passed this amendment. It was the people of the state who voted, unlike the legalization process where a select few decided for the whole state to legalize gay marriage.

Yes Christians were praying for the passing of Prop 8, but there were alot of non-christians who understand the sanctity of marriage and voted Yes.

Why should millions of straight couples and their families be forced to accept gay marriage, and the beliefs of a small minority?

MAJORITY RULES!! Face it, live with it. It is the way a democracy works. Try going to a country where the people do not have a choice, and then see if you will protest in the streets against the government.

Apollo wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:20 PM:Re: County Clerks stop issuing licenses (article)
Until the vote is certified, the counts - even those coming from the Registrar's office - are unofficial. For the County Clerk to violate an order of the Supreme Court based on preliminary, unofficial vote counts is an act of extreme insubordination against the Constitution.

There are many reasons why the California Supreme Court can, must and will overturn this hateful act to rescind basic, inalienable rights.

Some points to consider:

a. Retroactive Application: We must not allow the initiative to be applied retroactively. While the Ex-Post Facto provision of the U.S. Constitution prohibits any retroactive application of law in CRIMINAL matters, it does not apply to civil legislation (U.S. Supreme Court: (Calder v. Bull 3 U.S. (3 Dall.) 386 (1798)). So civil laws, including the laws of marriage CAN BE applied retroactively - IF AND ONLY IF such retroactive application is specifically stated in the legislation.
Proposition 8 included no specification of retroactive application and cannot be applied to any marriages legally performed (in California, Massachusetts or Connecticut) prior to its effective date.

b. Federal Constitution: The Supreme Court must immediately put a stay against implementing Prop 8 because there is a compelling argument under the Federal Constitution that it is unconstitutional, and this argument is unique to the three states (Massachusetts, California, Connecticut) that have already legalized same-sex marriage.
The 5-15-2008 State Supreme Court decision (In re Marriage Cases, (S147999) consolidation of six underlying appellate cases) was based on the California State Constitution, not the Federal Constitution. Now that the people have voted to amend the State Constitution, this must be re-litigated based on the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment to the Federal Constitution.
Important: while the U.S. Supreme Court should apply this nationally, I doubt the current conservative Court is willing to do so.
It was in a California case (affirming a California Supreme Court decision) that the U.S. Supreme Court held in Reitman v. Mulkey (387 U.S. 369 (1967)) that, while a state is not required to specify legal rights, once it has granted them they cannot be withdrawn. It is kind of like differentiating between sins of omission and commission -- the state would not have been compelled to specify an equal right, but having done so, to take that right away becomes an official act by the State against equal protection under the law prohibited by the 14th Amendment.
This was in the case of California's Prop 14 (November 1964) that repealed the Rumsford Fair Housing Act. The court held that California was not required to pass the Rumford Act, but having done so and thus conferring a right, that right could not be withdrawn.
The Reitman case remains established precedent, though only in the states that have already legalized same-sex marriage. Our State Court must be compelled to abide by this precedent that was created out of California history.

c. State Constitution: When we use the term "Constitutional Amendment" we have to remember that there is a difference between changing the State Constitution and the U.S. Constitution.
In the Federal U.S. Constitution, any change is called an Amendment.
In the State Constitution, there are two kinds of changes. The term "Amendment" refers to minor adjustments of the Constitution, as to details. Changes that are deemed fundamental or substantial are not done by "Amendment," but rather by "Revision." A "Revision" must be passed by BOTH a vote of the people as well as a vote of the legislature.
By deciding the case based solely on the California State Constitution, the judges insulated their decision from appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
By declaring that the right was FUNDAMENTAL, as in "basic" and "inalienable," the Court also insulated themselves from being changed by any "Amendment" which only requires a vote of the people and must be limited to minor points of detail, not fundamental rights.
The Los Angeles Times has a detailed examination of these issues in a page one story this morning.

While it is disappointing to see an official expression of bigotry by the population, the margin compared to the 61% loss of Prop 22 in 2000 is much improved. I am convinced that if Prop 8 could have been delayed until the next election cycle, people would have become comfortable with the fact that they (or society in general) did not get hurt by it and it would never have passed. This is exactly what happened in Massachusetts. After the Court decision, opponents began circulating a petition to rescind it, which polls showed would pass overwhelmingly, but by the time it actually made it to the ballot two years later, public perception had changed so much that the initiative was soundly defeated.

C wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:22 PM:The people spoke in 2000 by 61% of the vote.

The people spoke Nov. 4 2008 by 52.5%.

Even with more money and more publicity this time around, public support for government-imposed discrimination is dwindling.

The people WILL SPEAK in 2010 to overturn a law which provides civil enforcement of the canon of SOME religions.

And we will be known as the state that took three elections to remedy this injustice. I will be proud to say that I *always* voted no.

call me Johnson wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:22 PM:Even if there were any truth to sikofit's claim, a marriage is supposed to be monogamous. The more gay people who are married means less messing around which means less STDs which means less people contract AIDS.....

YES YES YES wrote on Nov 6, 2008 3:24 PM:To Wes, you will meet your maker one day, You Say there is no God or Gods.... Shame on you, Where r u from anyways.... And once again Thank God for our institution of marriage and our Country...

Nick 2 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 4:00 PM:OMG My point EXACTLY Thank you for standing up.

Bodecea wrote on Nov 6, 2008 4:33 PM:To "The People",

Christians weren't just praying, they were paying, standing, chanting, harassing, laughing at, vandalizing.

Revoke the tax-free status of churches now. No more special privileges for liars and Segregationists!

Too All wrote on Nov 6, 2008 4:33 PM:This is only about MONETARY GAIN...stop saying it's about love or religion

To Nick 2 and OMG wrote on Nov 6, 2008 4:37 PM:I question the authenticity of OMG's claimed race, but even if true, bigotry has no racial barriers........ I just can't wait for the day when bigots are the true minority......

breman wrote on Nov 6, 2008 4:38 PM:I'm straight, married... with children and non-religious. I voted no on 8. Why? Because it's a case of open discrimination towards a specific group of people. Why shouldn't two people who love each other be allowed to marry? This is a personal choice issue where the government should NOT get involved. Who does it hurt if a same sex couple decide they want to make a life commitment to each other? You? Me?

HAHAHAHAHAHA wrote on Nov 6, 2008 4:44 PM:The prop passes, so the lifestyle goes away? The magic wand has been waved and all will go back into the closets? Wow, I'm not gay. When Ellen got married and announced it on tv, didn't affect me at all. I didn't even have to accept it if I didn't want to...I could turn off my tv...kids never had to know. Now she and her wife HAVE to accept YOUR lifestyle tonight as they weep over their marriage not being protected. Is this what the lord had in mind? But guess what...Ellen is STILL gay, and will be always and there is no law you can pass to stop that, though I'm sure you'll try. GSA meeting tomorrow lunch rm353 u know where!!!!!

Straight Against 8 wrote on Nov 6, 2008 4:48 PM:Christian, wife of a male for 14 years, two kids and not about to cast the first stone let alone change a law to fit someone else's distorted interpretation of my Bible. There's your demographic.Sooooo far from over...

To OMG wrote on Nov 6, 2008 4:52 PM:Do you realize how many people are attacked physically and verbally just for being PERCEIVED gay???? People often tell me I'm lucky because my kids don't "look" Mexican...which ticks me off because I never want them to deny who they are. It will be no different if they ever say they are gay. Discrimination is discrimination...the results are the same. Check skinhead sites and you will see they give equal treatment to minorities and gays...sad that this is the only place there is equality...equality in hate.

U.S Next wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:03 PM:Present-day countries where homosexual acts are still punishable by death:

Iran
Mauritania
Nigeria
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Sudan
Yemen

Enough of the Bashing wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:11 PM:Stop the Christian bashing. I see no tolerance or understanding for Christians from any of you. You do not understand that you can not force Christian to accept this sin as normal. God law is what we follow. God is a much higher power than man's power.

Such tolerance, go to some of the Gay blogs , they talk about horrible thing they are going to do to Christians and Churches and how they are going to disturb straight weddings. Your becoming domestic terrorist. How aweful you are.

If you want to burn in Hell go ahead, but your not taking me with you.

I voted Yes wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:11 PM:Listen, Men and Women are biologically built for reproduction, and bonding as partners NATURALLY. This is not religion, this is evolution and down right the way it is intended. For gays and lesbians to make a choice to marry same sex is THEIR CHOICE based on emotions and thoughts, not physical attributes.
So to me this is as natural as loving a dog and wanting to marry it since that is how I FEEL. If enough people want to do that should we make it legal too? Oh wait because you are humans you expect that humans involved together should be allowed to do anything. Ok so if I want to marry a seven year old, and enough people think that's ok, it's on TV, and more and more people are "coming out", we have parades, and a flag, Hey! let's make it legal and scream discrimination if the 'majority' of people in the state say NO! WE SAID NO! NO GAY MARRIAGE. So stop!

I voted no wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:24 PM:Live and let live.

to OMG wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:55 PM:hello, why do you assume that gays and lesbians are only white?
The No on 8 Campaigners have never associated our discrimination and oppression with the history of slavery of african american.
They are different but very often our black brothers and sisters that are gay and lesbians in addition to be black and get discriminated by whites, have been also isolated by the african american community. As a black man I have been isolated by your machismo and violence for all my life.
This is not a competition about who is more discriminated, this is about equality for all no matter how your history of oppression is like.
By the way, please don't forget that gays and lesbians have been killed in the past (Hitler) and continued also to be killed in the rest of the world (see Iran, Iraq, Russia and some area in Africa) just because of who they are.
Shame on you, you re using the same reasoning that some white people have been using against us to discriminate .

to all the foot tappers wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:56 PM:I wonder how many of you gay haters are actually closet gays in denial???

Why is wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:25 PM:everyone who voted yes on 8 gay haters....see once again calling us names. See the big rally going on in LA, blocking intersections and disrupting everyone's life. Cops should arrest them all for disrupting the peace.

No Faith Left wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:33 PM:To avoid any confusion later ... I am a heterosexual white woman who has been in a completely committed relationship with the same man for more than a decade. We both have kids from previous relationships (none together) and have made the choice not to get married because we don't need anyone other that us to recognize our relationship.

This decision has completely destroyed what little faith I had left in humanity, common sense and common decency. My kids have been asking me how something so spiteful could have passed and I'm still trying to figure out the appropriate answer.

It's a sad day for any society when the private views of one dictate what is acceptable in the private life of another.

Given the obvious constitutional conflicts, this is going to get interesting for both sides.

I don't believe that all the Yes voters are hateful bigots, but the 'because God said so' argument doesn't fly either.

What we've seen happen with the results of this prop far outreaches gay marriage. We (proverbially of course) have said that it is acceptable for the private beliefs of one to negatively affect the private lives & public rights of another.

To all the Yes voters ... be careful what you wish for. Next time it could be your rights that get trampled.

To all the No voters ... be afraid of the future because God talked about more than homosexuals. If God's law was able to be placed in the constitution for this ... there is still a lot of ground to cover.

To Enough of the Bashing wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:39 PM:I tolerate Christians, but will never understand them. I just can't understand why people need some 'higher power' to tell them that what is right and what is wrong. I was forced through a Lutheran confirmation as a child and ditched the church as soon as I was on my own because it never made any sense to me and no one has ever presented a case that changed my mind.

If people want to live under God's law that is their business as well as their right. What they don't have, however, is the right to make me to do the same.

Everyone has the right to feel however they want about whatever they want. They can hate gays, or blacks, or people who drive blue cars, or wear red shirts or whatever.

What everyone seems to miss is that the government doesn't have the same luxury of free will/individual thought that an individual does. The government is obligated to treat every legal, law abiding and tax paying citizen equally. Not equal but different ... just equal. Period.

Sincerely ... straight white girl from the mid west.

FallbrookGrandma wrote on Nov 6, 2008 6:40 PM:Hi,
I live in Fallbrook. No on 8 signs that my husband posted around town were repeatedly torn down and defaced. He never once messed with any of the Yes on 8 signs that were posted on the public medians or private property however all of his No on 8 signs were removed in the middle of the night. Also someone spray painted the word "sodomite" across one of the signs a friend had posted on Olive Hill Road near Dentro de Lomas. Also on Saturday morning before the election I saw perhaps a half dozen Yes on 8 demonstrators at Highway 76 and Olive Hill. I made a thumbs down gesture from my car (this is NOT an obscene gesture)and immediately 4 of the 6 ran into the traffic lane and within 12 inches of my window began shouting "you'll burn", "Christ is King" "the bible is the only law" and other such pleasantries.It was that day I convinced my husband to take down our sign off of our property because I was too afraid. He's a man of principle but we live alone and it's just not worth it. I can't speak for what happened to others, this is just our experience.

dont give the Mormons that much credit wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:05 PM:I don't get how the Mormons are getting the hate for this. Mormons who are active in their church only make up about 1% of population, and half of those are under voting age. Not to mention that some mormons voted against 8 and even donated to the no on 8 cause. There is a mormon out there that donated $50k for no on 8. That is probably more than most gay folk out there.

bodecea wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:07 PM:I applaud the protesters in San Francisco and Los Angeles. Showing that we will NOT go quietly into second class citizenship.

Now, to eliminate the special rights churches have to not pay taxes.

Pray wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:33 PM:I will pray for the sinner and hate the sin. I will forgive you for pushing your views on me. I will forgive you for making me explain all this to my young children. I forgive you for making me accept your lifestyle. I will pray for you, yes on 8 for your misguided use of the Bible to compare consenting adults to pedophiles and those who practice beastiality...would you like your lifestyle compared to voodoo or satanism...other religions?

Logic wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:39 PM:By the logic on here:
1. If you can't reproduce, no kids for you...too bad for my sister who adopted from third world countries...
2. A relationships between two consenting adults is equivalent to raping a dog or child...
3. Therefore, if I want the right to practice CHristianity...and I DO...then maybe next people will want to legalize human sacrifices and witchunts...
OH MY GOD...WHERE IS IT ALL HEADED?????

i wonder wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:41 PM:how many heterosexual couples that voted yes on 8 woke up this morning, looked at their spouse, and honestly thought "our marriage has been restored!!"

all the while, 18,000 couples woke up, looked at their spouse and thought "what is going to happen to us?"

Stop the bashing wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:41 PM:Isn't condemning us all to hell the ultimate bashing???? THERE ARE GAY CHRISTIANS!!!!!

Double Standard wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:45 PM:Why is it if you disagree with a religious belief it's bashing and persecution, but if you change the law on another lifestyle it's righteous and justified? Why when those attacked defend themselves, it's persecution toward the perpetrator? This says it all without the bashing and with good Christian dogma. It was in today's letters:
Nation steps forward, state steps back

Today is a day of mixed emotion: joy that we have entered an era of change as a country and yet, as a state, we've been launched back into the pre-civil rights era. Many have struggled with how to explain homosexuality to their children when ironically in these last few months, it has been thrust upon us by those who oppose it. Now, I struggle with how to explain to my children how a government can discriminate against those with differences and how our biblical teachings to be compassionate to all and leave judgment to God have been replaced by self-righteous hate.

If a gay couple marries, it does nothing to my marriage at home. The legal and moral objection to homosexuality now will tear 17,000 homes apart and prevent new families from coming together. Many have said they do not want other lifestyles thrust upon them. Only those families directly affected truly know this pain. What is next on the agenda, I wonder? Can we legally ban divorce? Co-habitation? Age differences? I pray that our Supreme Court will do the job intended by our Constitution and my children will live in a country where all people are truly created equal.

I LOVE GOD wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:47 PM:I just can't stand his groupies.

Fallbrook wrote on Nov 6, 2008 7:50 PM:Sorry to hear that. I love though that I will "burn" for being compassionate to all. I can't wait to sit next to Hitler who believed in "exterminating" homosexuals...over a million. He'll say to me, "So what are you in for?"
Me: "I was nice to them. Go figure. I guess I got that love thy neighbor and stone casting thing wrong."

to mormon 1 percent wrote on Nov 6, 2008 8:51 PM:Don't blame it on the Mormons because they are only 1% of the popultion????

They gave more than half of the money. They had people from out of state calling into California.

Each Mormon LDS church Ward worked a targeted neighborhood with a specific campaign and demonstration corner.

The Bishop of the ward led the demonstrations personally.

The next two highest male members of the ward that are in charge of the teen males led the children into the protests.

Did you notice how many of the Yes on 8 protesters were teen males?

Don't tell me not to blame the Mormons. They were behind prop 8.

If anyone can be specifically blamed, it is the LDS'ers aka Mormons.

Steve wrote on Nov 6, 2008 9:12 PM:I read that 75% of blacks that voted for Obama also voted yes on prop 8. Can you explain that to me?

To Steve wrote on Nov 6, 2008 9:54 PM:In a word ... hypocrisy.

this is easy wrote on Nov 6, 2008 10:50 PM:This is not rocket science folks. For those of you who think this will be overturned,you need to take a lesson in California constitution. Seriously. If you are unhappy, you have 20 states to move to that haven't yet changed their constitution. Please move before they do, we are already overcrowded with illegals.

To To Steve wrote on Nov 6, 2008 11:01 PM:Did it eve occur to you that some people voted for O'Bama the man....not the black man. And that these same individuals also feel that marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. Who's the hypocrite now?

bodecea wrote on Nov 7, 2008 5:26 AM:To Steve,

Why did the Puritans come to America for religious freedom and then persecute other religions? Human nature.

treena wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:24 AM:Why are they blaming Mormons? Are you saying that the rest of the 52% who supported Prop 8 was just too stupid to think for themseleves, and they were swayed by money and ads? Are you forgetting all of the other religions that supported Prop 8? Why not go protest in Compton, where a very high majority of african americans and hispanics voted for prop 8 live? Oh, I guess that would be hateful and racist. Seems like you are doing that to the Mormons at their church by protesting. This is sure to turn people off to supporting the gay agenda. Harassing people for their vote will surely backfire! Gay community seems to be contridicting themselves on this...

call me Johnson wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:35 AM:Regarding Steve’s comment; people are insecure. The Italians, Irish, Germans and other immigrants over 100-years ago were victims of prejudice. Later, in large numbers these immigrants “moved up the chain” so they were victimizing African Americans, Mexicans, Chinese and others. Now another link has been placed where gays can be looked down on by the former. Unfortunately there will be a time when a certain number of gays will express prejudice on another group. Be careful zealous right-wing Christians, it could be you if you don’t practice what you preach……..

African American Vote wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:37 AM:The Yes on 8 side sent out false mailers implying that Obama supported Yes on 8.

The truth is that he Opposed No on 8 and even endorsed the No on 8 campaign in a commercial after he discovered that his image was being used by the yes campaign.

The yes on 8 campaign made robocalls making false claims on Obamas position in order to confuse the voters. If they had not resorted to this kind of lying, the African American community would have rejected this proposition.

This is a dirty campaign trick and the yes on 8 side are outright liars.

esteban wrote on Nov 7, 2008 8:37 AM:You know who is responsible for prop 8 winning? The gays. They tried to shove their lifestyle down our throats, and people got sick of them. Thank you gays.

rosa wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:13 AM:Thank you esteban............. You are exactly right. Then wanting to push their life style on young kids. Forget it...They think their lifestyle is normal. The rest of us do not. Let kids decide when they become adults. Not babies. Who don't understand. Do what you want in your personal lifes. Don't tell the rest of us we have to like your ideas. Or innocent kids.

DR Oceanside wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:17 AM:The majority has spoken. Just like the election. No need to riot and protest. Change is coming for everyone.

erth wrote on Nov 7, 2008 12:17 PM:This is to those who have their own agenda. The CHRISTIAN COALITION started the support to YES on 8...but now is just the "mormons"...NOT SO....MORMONS JOINED the Christian Coalition since we all read the same Bible...an as for the PICTURE, THE MORMONS WITH 10+ WIVES ARE NOT PART OF THE MORMON (LDS) CHURCH. Lets address our ignorance on subjects before we speak and make statemensts about it.
A small mention: was not JUST the moromons that voted YES on prop 8. How about showing our discomfort and frustration with all the rest of the Christian churches....

It is always wrote on Nov 7, 2008 1:08 PM:so nice to see how intelligent people are when the voices of Californian's have been heard. On TV this morning I saw in LA protest going on. And I know that NOT ALL the protesters are responsible for this but beating someone up because they had a yes on 8 sign....BEATING THEM UP!! and then the dumb *^^ that got beaten up said "it was because I was gay" PLEASE.. Protestors destroying private property at the mormon temple....really smart here guys. If this is what going to be portrayed then it's time to remember protest in peace....every action there will be a reaction. We have been blasted over our faith (and I am not Mormon) we have been discriminated against because our Votes don't matter. We have had the gays shove their lifestyles done our throats... Now they are becoming violent......GROW UP!! IT"S OVER!!

Les wrote on Nov 7, 2008 2:13 PM:This issue has nothing to do with hate. What I hate is people defining me as a hater because I supported prop 8. You know nothing about me and obviously nothing about the issue.
Why can't we have 2 institutions which are called something different yet, have the same rights?
Let's have marriage defined by a man and women and garriage defined as any 2 human beings.

But Les wrote on Nov 7, 2008 3:35 PM:I would agree IF "marriage" and "garriage" have exactly the same legal rights and responsibilities.
How much do you want to bet that the Yes crowd would NEVER agree to that?

To Les wrote on Nov 7, 2008 3:38 PM:How can your comment not be construed as spiteful?

Arnold wrote on Nov 7, 2008 4:05 PM:The way I see it, the issue has been voted on twice by Californians! When are the gay activists going to stop trying to ram their agenda down the throats of the Californian's, especially the Christians? Blame the Christians! Blah blah blah! At first I didn't really care what people were doing, now it's getting irritating and annoying to me. Who are the intolerant people now? Look at your gay and lesbian pride parades... forcing firefighters to participate in them! You all already have more rights. Anything that happens to you you claim its a hate crime.

arnold wrote on Nov 7, 2008 4:13 PM:To African American vote, I think your comment offends. Don't insult the African Americans intelligence. By your statement, you are implying that the African Americans did not do any research on the issue of Prop 8 and based their decisions out of ignorance. That is insulting. Furthermore, I do believe that Obama is as guilty of deception if not more as you claim those who supported Prop 8.

Mexicat wrote on Nov 7, 2008 6:44 PM:A majority of hispanics and blacks voted yes, this really infuriated the liberals. Now they (libs) are insulting are race. They don't have anything to go by so they are getting personal. Even the liberal John Stewart show is insulting blacks. Not insulting but scolding blacks for voting yes. Whatever, it passed so get over it.

to what comes around wrote on Nov 7, 2008 7:21 PM:Excellent idea! and while we're at it let's revoke the church tax exempt status as it is not fair to everyone else.

to the people wrote on Nov 7, 2008 7:48 PM:If the majority always rules and shouldn't be questioned, why isn't prop 187 the law of the land?

Mexicat wrote on Nov 7, 2008 9:58 PM:And another thing, you libs are finally showing your true colors. Call reps and neocons bigots and racist but when things don't go the liberal way then you guys become the true bigots.

Judge wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:37 PM:Yeah, yeah...I will overturn your insignifcant votes once the heat is off.

OMG wrote on Nov 10, 2008 7:16 AM:I am a black woman. I voted for Obama. I voted yes on 8. I am married and have children. I have conservative values that have nothing to do with religion. Gay marriage does not affect me personally but I do not agree that gays are a minority group. Its your lifestyle and you could live a normal life or live like its gay pride day every day. You have a choice. People don't need to know what you do in the privacy of your bedroom. Next we may hear that people that have all types of sexual fetishes want special rights. There are grown men that get turned on being babies and having mommy take care of them. Would it be ok for them to walk around in diapers and sucking on pacifiers out in public?

WILL wrote on Nov 10, 2008 3:53 PM:HA HA