Lets do it wrote on Nov 21, 2008 4:23 AM:OK....... so I'm willing to give the Religion Bigots their precious MARRIAGE back. The American Government will then need to remove the special rights and benefits now enjoyed by being married due to the Separation clause in the Constitution requiring government to refrain from condoning or interfering in the functions of religion and their sacraments. The converse applies equally.
Everyone else can then register their Domestic Partnerships with the Government and receive the full backing and benefits now afforded to "Marriage".
Any citizen with a Religious Marriage may also register and receive the same benefits, if their religion doesn't prohibit such a secular registration.
I'm really tired of these attempts to turn religious bias into the law of the land. It's time to challenge the tax exempt status of the these violators.

chuck wrote on Nov 21, 2008 6:12 AM:>>We should be raising our children to do something positive with their lives instead of telling them that putting on a uniform and going over to some other country >>
But the things your type consider positive are diversity, the proper method of putting a condom on a cucumber and that liberals good, republicans bad. And its evident by the garbage the teachers unions are putting on the streets

She Said wrote on Nov 21, 2008 6:49 AM:Mr. Dunn's letter has some really great points. What I'm sure he didn't have enough space for..... the situations in our country have drastically changed since our President Elect began his campaign. We must understand that these unforeseen developments may require him to adjust some things especially within time lines. He will get much criticism from many (some in his own party) who can't even begin to comprehend or conceive the complexities he inherited. We need to be patient and bring as many into the process as possible. I see he has already reached out and I think received some support from his former opponent who in all fairness has previously worked across party lines. Obama sees the advantage of additional support and we should also.

Ms M wrote on Nov 21, 2008 7:41 AM:Happy Friday!!!!!

This is an excerpt from an article on the net:

How can the Republican Party rebound? The first step would be to quit letting Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham set its agenda.....

....A second step would be for Congressional Republicans to actually try to help President-elect Barack Obama succeed in addressing the country's dire problems -- offering better ideas where appropriate and opposing just when necessary, not reflexively.....

....In recent years, Republicans have let right-wing talk show hosts whip the GOP base into frenzies -- over immigration, brain-damage victim Terry Schiavo and same-sex marriage -- that have branded the party as troglodyte....

See we libs have been telling you cons to TURN OFF THE RADIO! LOL And a great San Diego weekend to all!!!

Civil Rights wrote on Nov 21, 2008 7:43 AM:Both Clyde Cobb and David Klose claim that full equality for gays and lesbians is not a civil rights issue. They are wrong. It's a civil rights issue because - just like skin color - people do not choose sexual orientation, they/we are born that/this way. That's why straight people like Dale Delmege (in today's letters), my wife and I, people at my and other churchs, and millions of other straight people voted No on Prop 8. And like "race", homosexuality is misunderstood based on a history primitive prejudice. We didn't choose to be straight and they didn't choose to be gay/lesbian.

Backcountry wrote on Nov 21, 2008 7:46 AM:For two years we heard an endless chant from Obama how bad off we are in America and how our economy has never been worse, comparing it to the Great Depression. When he started talking the market was at about 14,000 and retirement funds were secure. The market began dropping at a great pace right after Obama claimed to be a "citizen of the world" and promised his great socialist scheme to "spread the wealth around," meaning that he promised to punish success and reward failure.

Obama kept talking down the economy and succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. The market has lost 50% of its value since he began his campaign and is still dropping. The market is a barometer of confidence, and right now it doesn't project any confidence in the messiah and his brand of change called socialism.

If he can be this successful in his ( intentional or unintentional?) attempt to destroy the economy before he actually becomes president, what greater damage will he be able to do after he gets in?

OBAMAPREZ wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:10 AM:I agree completely with She Said at 6:49 a.m.
I am utterly amazed at how the same people that complained that Obama lacks EXPERIENCE are now complaining that he is, what? Hiring people with experience!
Let me explain to William: the President decides policy. The staff implements the policy. What better than to have POLICY decided by someone with fresh ideas from outside the beltway, and then implemented by those who actually have experience making the machinery of Washington work.
What better way to run a government than to consider the views of everyone and then try to develop consensus views that give something to everyone.
Liberal and conservative views are not always mutually exclusive.
We can find ways to fight terrorism, reduce crime and be fiscally responsible without violating civil liberties or civil rights. It does not mean everyone will get everything they want, but everyone's perspectives can be respected and included. The only ones who have a lot to fear are the corrupt no-bid defense contractors, oil speculators and high-flying Wall Street profiteers who have raped and pillaged our economy, infrastructure, environment and national security.

Vista Granny wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:13 AM:Doesn't Chuck just make you ill? Two or three words and I'm finished with his posts.

bodecea wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:21 AM:Chuck,

Why is it all about sex with you? Serious question.

Chuck wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:24 AM:>>>Doesn't Chuck just make you ill? Two or three words and I'm finished with his posts.>>

Sometimes.

The question then becomes is 3 words your limit, anyway?

to Lets do it wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:26 AM:Exactly right. This needs to be taken care of at the federal level because that's where the protection from discrimination can be dealt with. If "marriage", the word, is so important to some religious people or others, they can have it. Make the union, as enacted by the state, another word/term, ensure that no one gets privileges based on the gender they wed, and it's over. I suspect, however, that the religious fanatics will NOT be satisfied with this because when it comes right down to it, anything that says "It's ok to be gay" is so offensive to them that they will fight it. At bottom, they really do insist on inequality. No, that's saying it too kindly. They want any and all mention of homosexuality to be in sentences with "abomination", "sin", and similar words. They want a theocracy, period, and we all need to realize that this extremely unamerican goal needs to be recognized for what it is and fought every step of the way.

to Vista Granny wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:28 AM:You might try skipping Chuck's posts. We all know him as a disturbed individual whose terror of anything homosexual drives him to invent any kind of lie to promote homophobia. Chuck has a big issue with manliness, I guess.

OBSERVATION wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:30 AM:Madonna & Guy Granted Preliminary Divorce

To Arne Hansen wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:36 AM:Thank you for your letter. It is true those "checkpoints" do violate our 4th Amendment rights. It seems some people believe the ends justifies the means and are willing to have their rights violated but I am not!!!! These checkpoints are the first indication of a police state and as a good American I am not willing to allow this happen. The Shea's from Vista are envious of Escondido perhaps they should move there if they like what goes on in that town. Let me be the first to say so long. I hope Vista Mayor and City Council are more level headed about these checkpoints and actually check with the public before they order these tactics. It is true when one crosses the border without proper documentation it is a crime but they can only be deported for that offense, they can not be arrested by law enforcement. These checkpoints are more illegal than the people who are being targeted. People must speak up against this tyranny before it is too late. Stop the checkpoints now!!!!!

bodecea wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:41 AM:To Clyde Cobb,

"Only a homosexual would see Prop H8 as denying them their civil rights"?


Are you aware, Mr. Cobb, that 48% of the state's voters voted NO on your Prop H8?

Using YOUR logic, that means that 48% of the state's voters are gay because YOU said that only homosexuals see Prop H8 as a violation of their civil rights.

Now...using YOUR logic YOU have no problem with denying civil rights to 48% of our state's voting citizens.

Are you sure that is the impression YOU wanted to give?

Ms M wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:42 AM:Backcountry
[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 7:46 AM:...gee your expectations of what president ELECT Obama has control of is astounding. There is NO one alive today that can do ANYTHING in an hour, day, week, month or even a year to turn around this mess that Bush and the cons have done. It's major - big time major - and it IS going to take a while to get America on the right track. Any idiot would know that! You know Bush did not get us in this situation overnight. It started in his first term and gee golly - he was re-elected to finish the madness. So don't get on Obama - go talk to Bush and ask him why he has brought America to it's knees and what is HE trying to do to fix HIS mess. He's still in charge. PATHETIC!!!!!

Chuck wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:44 AM:>>Madonna & Guy Granted Preliminary Divorce>>

It looks like Johnny & Richard will soon be granted one soon, too. That is, if the vote of the people is worth anything

Tony wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:46 AM:MONOGAMY

In the USA, the minority receives protection from the majority.

This means that the majority is not always correct. The majority does not necessarily base their info on Federal or State legal facts.

Bible/church words and passages do not 'drive' our nation. Bible/church is not equivalent to legal facts.

There is no church of the United States of America.

There is freedom of choice to be religious or not religious.

Important movements because of intellectual thinking people have improved our lives, such as:

We do not have slaves.

Women have the right to vote, own property, become CEOs, etc.

Intermarriage exists, Blacks can marry whites; ditto for other minorities.

Separate but equal no longer exists.
We wiped out separate drinking fountains, separate public schools,
only able to sit in the back of the bus, etc.

As "America's Team" the Brooklyn Dodgers were at the forefront of the Civil Rights Movement. The Dodgers integrated in 1947, seven years before the Supreme Court of the United States declared separate but equal to be inherently unequal (1954). This daring was not without a high price ...

We no longer have the pony express.
We no longer worry about polio.

Science, medicine, new discoveries, and more. We are constantly moving forward.

All citizens have the same rights and sooner than later same sex marriages will become Federal law.

Homosexuals have a human medical deviation. It is not a choice. It is not a disease that you will 'catch' nor will it 'kill' you.

They are our brothers, sisters, friends and neighbors. They must have the same rights and protection as the majority.

Other minority medical deviations cannot be cured and are not 'catching', such as Down syndrome.

Equal rights for all.

Ms M wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:49 AM:Backcountry
[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 7:46 AM:...Obama kept talking down the economy and succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. The market has lost 50% of its value since he began his campaign and is still dropping....Backcountry - Hannity's talking points. Read my previous post. Your hero's are killing the con party. TURN OFF THE TV & RADIO. PATHETIC!!!!

Loss is victory wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:52 AM:Bush wanted three things in an agreement with the Iraqis. Permanent US bases in Iraq (more than 50 of them); The right to conduct military operations without notifying or consulting with the Iraqi government; Immunity from Iraqi law for American military and mercenary personnel. The current agreement on the table says: all US combat troops out of Iraq by 2011; a guarantee that the US will NOT conduct military operations from Iraq; no immunity from Iraqi law for US personnel. In other words, all of Bush's hopes and plans for "the region" were rejected. And now, followers of al Sadr along with many Sunni groups are protesting this because 2011 withdrawal is not soon enough for them! Let's face it: the entire Iraq enterprise, from A to Z, has been a complete disaster. I guess one might say that Saddam's death was a good thing. Was it worth it? Depends who you ask. Iran could not be happier. They have a Shiite-dominated ally in Iraq now and never had to fire a shot or lose a soldier. Great job, W. What a loser! And thank God the American people rejected McCain and Palin, who'd have just made all this worse. Instead of the fantasy of curing us of our "Vietnam syndrome" of emasculation, Bush gave us another huge emasculation AND a much more dangerous Middle East. What a loser!!

BackWARD Country wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:54 AM:Thank you Backcountry at 7:46 a.m. for acknowledging how completely our nation's economy has been trashed.
What I find confusing, though, is how many conservatives think that having won the election means the winner immediately becomes president.
Basic civics education for Conservatives: Barack Obama will not officially become president until January 20. Two long months. All this economic collapse you acknowledge is the result of the failed policies of the guy who is still in the White House.
But thank you for acknowledging how urgently we need total change.

Tony wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:58 AM:CIVIL RIGHTS

People do not choose their sexual orientation, they are born that way.

Other medical deviations cannot be cured or changed such as Down syndrome and dwarfism.

SOLON wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:03 AM:YES! We have adults back in the White House

Soon the squawling, petulant vindictive paranoid bunch of brats will be thrown out of the White House, along with their irresponsible and molly-coddling handlers in Congress, the Justice Dept. and throughout government, as we begin the most through house-cleaning in decades.

How sweet it is!

Thanks to Douglas Dunn for putting a upbeat, positive face on this CHANGE WE GOT!!

To Vista Granny wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:08 AM:Parents who do such things as march their children to hold up Yes on 8 signs send a strong message to any of their children who may discover they are gay as they emerge from childhood. That is "you better hide this evil sin from your family, or you will be outcast." I fear many individuals, such as Chuck, who are obsessed with gays may have emerged from such a childhood experience and are dealing with self-denial and the suppression of their natural instincts. Chuck needs to know we love him, that we will accept him for the person he truely is and that we will also help protect him from those who are intolerant of his true nature. Be yourself Chuck, the truth will set you free.

Truce Deal for SDRaoul wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:11 AM:Hey, SDRaoul - in the spirit of bipartisan cooperation, I'm gonna make you a truce offer in the dispute over which parts of the economy a president can influence and how to compare Democratic vs. Republican administrations.

Look at the things a president has direct ability to influence.
Note the stats for budget deficits, trade deficits, stock market level and unemployment on the day the president was sworn in, and compare them with the day he left office. Record the difference as a positive or negative correlation. Do this for each president since Herbert Hoover. Compare results for Democrats and Republicans.

Then look at the things that are more directly under the control of the Federal Reserve.
Note the starting and ending dates for each Fed chair going back to Hoover.
Record the party of the president who appointed (or reappointed) him.
Record the rates of inflation and the prime rate of interest on the start of each appointment (or reappointment). Do this for each Fed chair, again, noting the party of the appointing (or reappointing) president. Compare results for Fed chairs appointed by Democrats and Republicans.

This will give you an accurate representation of which party has been more successful in the economy.

And remember wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:18 AM:We have over two decades of research on children raised in homosexual households. The results are clear: these kids are NO more likely to become/be homosexual than kids raised in heterosexual households. They have no more or less problems than kids raised in straight households, these things being affected by the quality of the parenting, not the sex of the parents. To deny any of this and insist that it's indoctrination of children or that it's a perversion is exactly the same as insisting the earth is flat. Belief in something that has been soundly proven wrong is up to you. But for you to insist that our society write its laws according to those beliefs is absurd. Do what you want, but please, leave others alone.

SOLON wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:21 AM:Backcountry blogger backwardness

Backcountry blogger (7:46 AM) stands in absolute awe of the great Obama oratory, worshipping his golden tongue which he claims was able to detroy the American economy by talking down the markets and plunging this whole world into The Greater Depression.

What absolute hyperbolic hogwash. First of all, it was the Greed of Wall Street brokers and their Republican protectors which created the liquidity and credit crisis. Secondly, there is no oratory in the history of the world, including that of Demosthenes, Sir Winston Churchill or even of FDR that could do to the economy what this administration has done.

And thirdly, the entire message of President elect Barack Obama, from day one, has been HOPE!, not despair.

Hey, Backcountry, go back under your dark rock and shut out the sunshine.

Tony wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:23 AM:Police State

TRUTH those "checkpoints" do violate our 4th Amendment rights. It seems some people believe the ends justifies the means and are willing to have their rights violated but I am not!!!! These checkpoints are the first indication of a police state and as a good American I too, am not willing to allow this to happen.

STOP this before we slide into a hitler-like government.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin

God Hates Divorce wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:41 AM:Lets follow the bible to the letter than we should make divorces illegal!! You know the bible says God hates divorce. Oh yeah and what do we about the married people who commit adultery? What about the fornicators? Oh man the bible is a hard standard to live up to isn't it! Either you believe and live up to it all or not.

Marlowe wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:51 AM:According to the recent New Yorker magazine, here are some of the things Bush is preparing to do as he leaves office: QUOTE make it harder for the government to limit workers' exposure to toxins, elminate environmental review from decisions affecting fisheries [...] ease restrictions on companies that blow up mountains to get at the coal underneath them [... install] rules to allow "factory farms" to ignore the Clean Water Act, rules making it tougher for employees to take family or medical leave, and rules that would effectively gut the Endangered Species Act. ENDQUOTE A fitting last act for the Bush years. Under cover of night, in secrecy and alone, without input from the people or their representatives, Bush will kill a few more ways that government (we the people) regulates big business. Employees, their families, the local communities, and the natural world all thrown under the bus by Bush single-handedly so that a few corporations' profits can soar. I know some of you bloggers celebrate this kind of thing, but, as the recent elections demonstrate, America feels the opposite way. This is exactly why Bush is doing it this way, rather than in a public forum or with the advice of Congress. Worst President ever. Bush the America-killer.

OBSERVATION wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:53 AM:U.S. influence is on the decline, report says
American intelligence agencies predict that China and India will cut into U.S. clout over the next two decades. The report also sees an increase in terrorist violence

Backcountry is Backwards wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:04 AM:Backcountry obviously doesn't read many books, watch much real news or have a basic understanding of how government works. The presidency is in a transition period during which the newly elected president analyzes the situation in the economy, financial sector, military and governmental operations left by the outgoing administration. The present conditions are not of his making, they are the culmination of the policies of the outgoing administration. It is up to the incoming administration to determine what worked and what needs to be fixed. In this instance, you are experiencing an economic, financial and housing crisis which need to be immediately addressed and are a direct result of the policies of the outgoing administration. BTW, I guess you don't watch the stock market while Bush is speaking because it always plummets. That is why he rarely speaks during market hours any more.

Alf wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:06 AM:Well, "Ms M" at 7:41AM,
I would almost take offense, but not this time. In the early 1970s, the person who is now Mrs. Alf, nicknamed me "troglodyte". The Jimmy Castor Bunch had a hit called "Troglodyte" and she thought I fit some of the lyrics, I did and still do. We combined both of our nicknames for our (my) business.
Regards, Alf.

Focal Point wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:11 AM:bodecea[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:41 AM:
You are correct. I voted against Prop 8
as a heterosexual. Marriage to me was not the issue. The issue was civil rights and the equal protection right clause of the constitution.

sdraoul wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:49 AM:The people of California through the legislature has limited marriage by these definitions in the past:

1. No one can be married to more than one spouse at a time;

2. The age of consent has been changed over the years -- upwards -- but still remains as a limit to marriage in that a man or woman cannot marry a child;

These definitions and limitations have been upheld by California courts for over the entire life of the state (1850).

The question posed by Prop. 8 (quit trying to change the language, children, by calling it PropH8, that only shows what idiots the opponents can be) is can the state define marriage as to between a man and a woman only?

The court upheld restrictions noted in points 1 and 2 also restrict "equal rights" and "equal treatment" thus -- the Constitution and the courts do allow limits on some "rights." Example:

No one can yell FIRE in a crowded theater and not be punished despite "Free Speech."

If the people limit elective terms, that stands constitutionally despite restricting rights of some individuals to run for office (the same office) after people-imposed term limits are set. The courts have upheld these violations of the Constitution as being in the public interest.

The question of majority versus minority is irrelevant here on Prop. 8, as is the question of whether or not "marriage" is a civil right.

The only question is -- can the people continue to define marriages as they have done in points one and two for 158 years in California.

Wanda wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:52 AM:Well, Vista Granny, at 8:13 AM, that's why they put the [-] below Chuck's name :)

Thanks for the support but... wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:04 AM:I have to say it makes me cringe to hear my sexuality (gay) being likened to dwarfism and Down's Syndrome. I know people who are saying that are trying to be positive and supportive, but it sort of smacks of the same comparisons the bigots make when they relate being homosexual to being a pedofile, murderer, or thief. Please, if you must make a comparison, I'd like to hear that being gay is like being born left handed or with blue eyes. Not something you choose ahead of time, just something that is the luck of the draw, and at least to me, more neutral souding. Oh yeah, and thanks for the support!

SOLON wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:16 AM:Backcountry blogger backwardness

Backcountry blogger (7:46 AM) stands in absolute awe of the great Obama oratory, worshipping his golden tongue which he claims was able to detroy the American economy by talking down the markets and plunging this whole world into The Greater Depression.

What absolute hyperbolic hogwash. First of all, it was the Greed of Wall Street brokers and their Republican protectors which created the liquidity and credit crisis. Secondly, there is no oratory in the history of the world, including that of Demosthenes, Sir Winston Churchill or even of FDR that could do to the economy what this administration has done.

And thirdly, the entire message of President elect Barack Obama, from day one, has been HOPE!, not despair.

Hey, if one crawls out from under his rock, he can see and bask in the sunlight.
Submitted 9:21am re-submitted 11:16am

Olaf wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:24 AM:To Tony: Your words can not make it true. You must find the proof to be a true scientific fact. Dwarfism/ Down syndrom are based in the genes/dna/rna things you do not want to talk about. Find the "Gay" gene and then we can talk. IMHO it is a choice but who cares. Take credit, be responsible and then you can talk about rights. By claiming they do not have a choice you pin them in a corner. It has been tried beofre and I guess we will continue to see this "it isn't my fault" excuses. Remember people use to say that alcoholism is passed on, gambling traits, people who commit murder couldn't help it, even today we are talking about sex addicts, c'mon when will people stop. Take responsibility or actually find the dna strand and then make your point. Just saying it doesn't prove anything.

OBSERVATION wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:28 AM:SHIA PROTEST PACT:
"(BAGHDAD) Thousands of followers of a radical Shiite cleric protested a proposed U.S.-Iraqi security deal Friday, burning an effigy of President George W. Bush in the same square where Iraqis beat a toppled Saddam Hussein statue five years ago."

Chuck wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:28 AM:>>>People do not choose their sexual orientation, they are born that way>>>

I think if that were true, the gene would have been remove from the gene pool a million years ago

grj wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:47 AM:Maybe backcountry stands for backwards thinking as in in criminal Bush supporter.First of all the economy and stock market has nothing to do with Obama and all the rich overpayed ceo's keep putting their handout to the government that is payed by the taxpayer. Hard to believe people blame pres-elect Obama he is not pres. elec. Lay the blame on the republicans and bush/cheney/rove and their wasted billions on their killing machine this nation has turned into.The government has to quit bailing out these companies that gamble on the stock market etc.

QUOTE of the DAY wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:49 AM:Albert Einstein:

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

YACKETY YACK wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:56 AM:A new U.S. intelligence report predicts that by 2025, China and India could join the United States as top powers in a multipolar global order.

The National Intelligence Council's "Global Trends 2025" report released Thursday, says the U.S. will become less dominant in the next two decades and the U.S. dollar will fall in power, sinking to a so-called "first among equals" in world currencies.

It also predicts a decline of al-Qaida, saying the terrorist network has not achieved broad support in the Islamic world.

The council represents all 16 American intelligence agencie

Alf wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:14 PM:Well, "Tony" at 9:23AM,
I beliee that a few others and I have used that quote to point out the folly of the USA Patriot Act and all that GWB has done to further the disemboweling of the Constitution and the diminution of our Constitutional Rights.
The sad fact is that we have been programmed to accept these devil's deals.
Regards, Alf.

I agree with Tony wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:19 PM:Ditto!!!! I will not have my rights taken away either!!! Police state is not a road I wish to travel.

jvc wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:25 PM:The core premise by those that are against Gay marriage is that homosexuality is a sexual perversion.
Likewise,heterosexuality can be considered a perversion by the homosexual! Therefore, a sexual proclivity given at birth whether homosexual or heterosexual can never
be a perversion within one's proclivity! It is this consideration
only that should give the homosexual
the right to marry!

Ms M wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:33 PM:Marlowe
[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:51 AM:..yes Marlowe it is just too sad what Bush is CONTINUEING to do to our country. You would think he would leave things alone and slink off to Crawford. Instead of righting his wrongs he is busy adding wood to the fire. Where are you con-Americans? Why aren't you standing up for America? I guess you just haven't gotten your fill yet. Just too busy waiting for Obama to fall. PATHETIC!!!!

Its a Wonderful Life wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:38 PM:<<<Bush signs jobless benefits extension>>>

So, Mr. Potter gives the middle class he has screwed for 8 years a Christmas gift that only to puts off inevitable home repossessions until after the New Year.

Thank you Mr. Potter, you are most generous.

They seem to hate God wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:45 PM:Of all the things condemned in the Bible, isn't it incredible how picky the faux-Christians are? They like pork, divorce, adultery, the death penalty, war, revenge, covetousness, and idol worship, among many other things. But, my goodness, how they hate homosexuals! And, even though the Bible says nothing about it, they also pretend that God stands behind their anti-choice stance. What all these beliefs have to do with the Old or New Testaments, I have no idea. Their Bible is the book of Me and My Friends, and they demand we all worship it.

Karl wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:47 PM:SOLON @ 9:21 AM:

Let me make sure I understand you when you say "Republican protectors which created the liquidity and credit crisis". Do you really mean that it was completely the fault of the Republicans and that the Democrats hands are completely clean in said crisis?

Peace

Said What wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:51 PM:chuck[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 6:12 AM:
Gobbledygook! Try writing about one subject in one complete sentence. You give the impression that you are goofy.

Civil rights is the issue wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:56 PM:What you call it is not important to me. Fact is, in the USA, if you legally form a union with someone of the opposite sex, you enjoy benefits and privileges that you would be denied if you had the same relationship with a same sexed partner. If those become uniform, so that, for example, a foreigner on a visa can stay here if s/he "forms a legal union with" a same sexed partner, that'd be ok and right. At the moment, it isn't this way. Gotta fix it. Simple.

Whats taking so long wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:00 PM:Apparently President elect Obama wants to appoint Hillary Clinton to the post of Secretary of State..and, supposedly, official announcement is being delayed because they are performing a very careful vetting..for heaven's sake, the woman just finished running for president..if there were items of concern, would they not have come to light during the primaries?..why is this taking so long?

Second try for Olaf wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:16 PM:Olaf, I tried to encourage you yesterday to catch up on science. It's not "either a gene or a choice" in biology any longer, if it ever was. Many, many, MANY traits come about via biological mechanisms other than "a gene". If you can drag your butt off its ideological barstool and go to a library, and actually search for evidence about the ways that homosexuality comes about, you will find a LOT of good research. None of it yields "A gene". Much of it yields biological factors, or gene-environment interactions, that occur prior to birth. Ain't a gene, but ain't a choice. Now, perhaps you will again ignore this invitation to actually learn something. Or perhaps you'll be an adult. Good luck.

Ms M wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:23 PM:The following is the last paragraph in an excellant article about Obama and the team he is putting together. The article is written by David Brooks, a conservative, and posted today:

....Believe me, I’m trying not to join in the vast, heaving O-phoria now sweeping the coastal haute bourgeoisie. But the personnel decisions have been superb. The events of the past two weeks should be reassuring to anybody who feared that Obama would veer to the left or would suffer self-inflicted wounds because of his inexperience. He’s off to a start that nearly justifies the hype.

The whole article is a great read - Obama WILL fix this mess. Millions of Americans and folks all over the world have hope - and it looks like with good reason!

To Backcountry: read it!

Ms M wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:37 PM:Hey Backcountry - you won't find this on Hannity or Rush:

Stocks Soar in Late Trading; Dow and S.&P. 500 Both Rise 6%

Wall Street seemed to regain some of its confidence late
Friday after a report that President-elect Barack Obama would
select Timothy F. Geithner, the president of the New York
Federal Reserve, to be secretary of the Treasury. Shares
jumped, with the Dow Jones industrial average surging 494.13
points or 6.5 percent. The broader Standard & Poor's
500-stock index was up 6.3 percent. The surge came after two
days in which the markets fell almost 6 percent in each
session.

Gotta Wonder wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:41 PM:Olaf[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:24 AM:
Gotta Wonder at Olaf. There are over 10 million gay people in the USA. Not one of them chose to be gay. Just ask a few of them. You want to know the homosexual gene? Well, where the heck is the heterosexual gene or the bisexual gene?
Observation is the rule of the day until each and every one of these genes are located. People like you who demand or request this homosexual gene are entertaining but unwilling to face the truth right before your eyes.

Chuck wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:44 PM:>>Wanda[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:52 AM:Well, Vista Granny, at 8:13 AM, that's why they put the [-] below Chuck's name :)>>> Gee, I'm so horribly hurt like by that. Imagine that, A tolerant racketeer that only wants to hear one side of it

GAY MAN wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:48 PM:Separation of Church and State

Days before this year’s election, Focus on the Family founder, fundamentalist James Dobson, appeared at a closing rally at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego to rally the anti-gay troops. Several months or organizing had gone into this event.

James Karger of Californians Against Hate, termed the rally a “big bust.” Organizers promised that more than 70,000 supporters would show up; the final tally was close to 10,000, he said. Organizers termed it a success, and estimated 20,000 attendees.

Interestingly, a spontaneous grassroots Pro-Gay rally and march was accomplished in less than one week in San Diego, with 25,000 attendees.

What does this signify? There are a lot of people who oppose the tactics and attitudes of the fundamentalist and who oppose writing religious doctrine into our Constitution, a secular document. And with 48% of the California voters supporting gay marriage, it is quite obvious that this civil rights movement is robust and determined. It is not that all these supporters are particularly desirous of gay marriage, but that they adamantly support separation of church and state.

Gotta Wonder wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:50 PM:Whats taking so long: Because they had to vet all post office activities of her husband, President Bill Clinton as well.

Ms M wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:54 PM:You cons just don't seem to get it:

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) on Friday sent a message to Democrats that Republicans are not prepared to bend to a stronger majority.

In letter to Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), McConnell urged Reid to adopt a more conciliatory tone and warned him that Republicans will unite against Democrats if he does not. The letter was signed by all 40 GOP senators and two Republican incumbents who are awaiting the results of elections in Georgia and Minnesota.....

Someone needs to let McConnell and company that they LOST. They are the minority. Americans don't want their type of governing. This is just too funny - it's beyond PATHETIC!!!!

Chuck wrote on Nov 21, 2008 2:01 PM:>>>Amsterdam to close one-fifth of city's marijuana cafes>>>

Boy, that ought to increase the 747 activity between Amsterdam and San Francisco, and imagine the massive move to air travel between the 2 if SF would close 1/5 of its bathhouses

Oh Chuck wrote on Nov 21, 2008 2:02 PM:You can't really believe that your posts, which are more or less non-stop name-calling, exaggeration, and fiction-writing, are presenting "the other side"! Read them yourself...what "side" are you presenting other than "I hate gays"? That's a "side"? LOL

Chuck wrote on Nov 21, 2008 2:03 PM:>>>OK....... so I'm willing to give the Religion Bigots their precious MARRIAGE back.>>>

Thats a start. At least your admitting to the theft. Now don't you feel better

jvc wrote on Nov 21, 2008 2:09 PM:As we know, the NCT had to cut its staff because of a poor economy.
This being the case, what are we going to do about this? We have seen how, over the years, the NCT has raised funds to help our community and while it
is a private corporate entity, can there be ant doubt that it is our newspaper....it belongs to the community it serves! It is our newspaper because it keeps us informed,
it is our community's ears and it works in the name of justice and the integrity of our values!Therefore, we must find ways to properly fund this newspaper that works for our best interest and because our community is only as good as our newspaper, a newspaper that speaks and acts for the greater good! Given all this, please submit your suggestions on how to strengthen the economic resources of the NCT so that we in turn can strengthen our community!Let us start by asking that the NCT raise its newsstand price of 75 cents as a show of our support even during our hard times!

Karl wrote on Nov 21, 2008 2:29 PM:Blog Moderator, can you establish a Prop 8 blog much like the Faith/Values one. This all 8 all the time is old. No new points, just the same ones over and over again. Thanks for any consideration.

Peace

Alf wrote on Nov 21, 2008 2:39 PM:Well, "Backcountry" at 7:46AM,
you are quick to BLAME OBAME for the downturn in the stock market,
TODAY it went UP 500 points,
Are you going to be JUST AS QUICK TO CREDIT OBAMA for that?
Or are you just another total hypocrite?
You can't have it both ways.
Regards, Alf.

Ahhh...Ms. M wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:06 PM:David Brooks is what passes for a "conservative" at the NY Times -- but you remember that the Times endorsed McCain in the Republican primary.

Let's just say the NYT has a different reference point than do most conservatives.

Oh Please wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:11 PM:Olaf[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:24 AM:
Why would anyone wish to speak with you about homosexuality? Are you a psychiatrist or psychologist or at least have a Master's in sociology? What are your qualifications? "Then we can talk.."

Real World wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:12 PM:I agree with Tony[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:19 PM: If you have a valid drivers license, car insurance and are stone cold sober, you have no worries.

Checkpoints wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:13 PM:Tony makes an interesting comment about the “interpretation’ of the Fourth Amendment, which has been interpreted by Supreme Court to make checkpoints LEGAL. (“What does the “reasonable” mean in “reasonable searches and seizures…?”)

Using anything but the “original intent” makes all “interpretations” the fluid process of changing legal minds on the courts. Liberals applaud “interpreting” the Interstate Commerce clause to make it a federal issue for Lester Maddox of Georgia to be engaged in interstate commerce even though his restaurant was not on a federal highway and he did not advertise across state lines – because some of the food he served came from out of state.

(Under a broad interpretation of that clause, you are involved in “interstate commerce” because the material in your teeth fillings come from various states.)

Conservatives applaud when “Congress shall make no law…” of the First Amendment is interpreted to mean that “no” has certain exclusions like pornography, slander, “fire in a theatre,” the famous six dirty words on TV and radio…

But liberals and conservatives who have applauded those respective interpretations that suit them then scream when another interpretation goes against their understanding of the Constitution.

There should be only ONE understanding of the Constitution, and that is the original intent. All other interpretations should be put to the vote of the people or their representatives, as “amendments.”

Unfortunately, what we have is various Constitutions on different days: a liberal Constitution, a conservative Constitution, a moderate constitution, a…

You may not think such driver license checks are legal, but the Court says they are.

To Chuck wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:23 PM:Take a course in genetics. Genes negatively related to reproductive success are not eliminated from the gene pool as you suggest. If they were we wouldn't have cystic fibrosis, hemophilia, Tay Sachs, PKU, etc.. If you want to hate gays, genetics is not on your side.

Chuckles wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:23 PM:"Chuck
[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:28 AM:>>>People do not choose their sexual orientation, they are born that way>>>

I think if that were true, the gene would have been remove from the gene pool a million years ago"

MAYBE Nature knows what it's doing and you have no idea.

WELL SAID wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:28 PM:"The United States today is so far removed from free market capitalism that it is closer to the system of a police state than to laissez-faire capitalism. The ability of the media to ignore all of the massive government interference that exists today and to characterize our present economic system as one of laissez-faire and economic freedom marks it as, if not profoundly dishonest, then as nothing less than delusional." . . . George Reisman, PhD (Pepperdine University Professor Emeritus of Economics)

Not January Yet wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:28 PM:"Whats taking so long
[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:00 PM:Apparently President elect Obama wants to appoint Hillary Clinton to the post of Secretary of State..and, supposedly, official announcement is being delayed because they are performing a very careful vetting..for heaven's sake, the woman just finished running for president..if there were items of concern"

Now Bill is being vetted. What's your rush?

Alf wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:35 PM:Well, "Chuck" at 1:44PM,
You don't beat around the bush or GWB, as it were.
I enjoy your taunts and I even let you reel me in once in a while.
I would not have known the true importance of cucumbers were it not for you.
BTW, do you have a favorite devilled egg recipe? Enquiring Alfs want to know.
Regards, Alf.

OMG wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:47 PM:Chuck -] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 1:44 PM:

Agreed Chuck, and kinda like Trolls that ignore sound arguments that don't fit their preconceptions.

Just feeding the Troll.

SHOCKED NOT wrote on Nov 21, 2008 4:54 PM:The Obama’s have chosen a Washington, D.C. private school, Sidwell Friends, for their children.

Public school gets still another vote of “No confidence.”

Richly deserved.

True Christian wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:08 PM:Jesus did't teach against using drugs, but I know it's wrong. I do use pot, and I know i have to stop because It's not right in the eyes of God.
Why don't you gays just stop pretending that your sexuality is not a sin. If i can admit that I'm in sin, why can't you?

True Christian? Billy Graham maybee.

APOLOGY wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:13 PM:to Thanks for the support but...

With many apologies.

I was very fortunate to grow up in America with friends with different religions, different skin color, different sexual needs. All before my 20th birthday.

And watching baseball and up close for autographs from Jackie Robinson, Roy Campanella, and Duke Snider.

And reading current events about the 'separate but equal' notion in the South. And how sick the KKK was by burning attacking and killing citizens.

Prop 8 took us back to the Dark Ages.
To the times when church/religion killed many.

State & Federal Govt must go forward: Equal Rights for all citizens.

"You’ve Got to be Carefully Taught"
an appropriate song

"You’ve got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You’ve got to be taught
From year to year,
It’s got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You’ve got to be carefully taught.

You’ve got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.

You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You’ve got to be carefully taught!"
from the show "South Pacific"

Stop fear and hate towards homosexuals and other minorities.

Equal Rights for all citizens.

A Teachable Moment wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:22 PM:Never thought I would read the story of the First Thanksgiving, instead of the pap usually published in more politically correct stories.

Even more interesting, the publication is today's Los Angeles Times. It is under "features/kids."

Save it before the PC Police find it, and it disappears. Tell your children. Send it to your friends.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:51 PM:To Gay Man @ 1:48 PM

Very Machiavellian of you.

"Might makes right" and all that...

Sally wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:54 PM:The phrase "separation of church and state" means two things. 1: The state cannot establish an official church. 2: The state may not interfere with the free exercise of religion. Prop 8 does not establish an official church. The fact that some supporters of Prop 8 also happen to be churchgoers does not mean their vote can be ignored or that they cannot participate in the political process. You can read it for yourself in the first amendment to the US Constitution.

Bored wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:55 PM:Last post was at 1:48 pm. What does the editor think that we have other things to do?

To Gotta Wonder wrote on Nov 21, 2008 6:41 PM:Were Bill's post-office activities not a fair game issue during the primaries?

Stop the checkpoints wrote on Nov 21, 2008 7:26 PM:I live my life on these premises, I do not do things that are illegal, immoral or unethical. Although those checkpoints are not illegal they are definately immoral and unethical. We are walking a fine line when we agree with the police tactics in this area. I say stop the checkpoints because the next thing you know our illegal searches of our homes will be found to be legal then what?

jvc wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:25 PM:You must remember that these checkpoints give the police much needed overtime!

The Obama Recovery wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:43 PM:For all those who keep wanting to avoid Republican responsibility and blame Obama, please stop mindlessly regurgitating megadittoes from Limbaugh, Hannity and "Oh really?"

Look at the reality.

After the election results, the campaign was over. Obama went behind the scenes to do the quiet, mature grownup work of preparing a transition. In his silence, the stock market continued the slide of the Bush Depression.

On Friday of the first week, Nov 7, Obama held his first news conference.
Once Obama actually spoke, the stock market spiked.

Then Obama returned to his pre-inauguration behind-the-scenes grownup work and, under "leadership" of the failed Bush administration, the stock market resumed its slide.

Today, the Obama campaign allowed the names of several top appointees for his economic team.
Action from Obama! And the market soared, just in the hour of trading after the info was released.

The real problem with the Bush Depression is that January 20 can't come fast enough.
The financial markets are eager to see the grownups back in charge for real.

Public Schools wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:51 PM:The blog titled "Shocked Not" 4:54 p.m. is simply an unwarranted attack on public education that reveals the blogger's own limited ability for critical thought.

Does anyone really think that, with all the haters who would love to make a "name" for themselves by attacking the First Family, the risks and exposure of small children of a PRESIDENT is just the same as any other family? Not every small child goes everywhere trailed by a gaggle of Secret Service agents, and special security needs unlike those of the general public require special arrangements. Please remember that Chelsea Clinton went to PUBLIC SCHOOLS in Arkansas, but the unique needs of Presidential security required utilizing the services of a private facility. The Clintons chose the same school, Sidwell friends.

I suppose you are just jealous because you've compared the mature, intelligent, responsible woman that Chelsea matured into with the wild, underage drinking, document forging Bush daughters and wish your Republicans could show half the maturity of the liberal grownups.

If you really don't understand this, it says far more about conservative ignorance than any slur against public schools you might intend.

The answers OLAF seeks wrote on Nov 21, 2008 8:52 PM:OLAF: in reply to your inquiry of 11:24 AM

... in which you demanded proof of a gay gene. I will provide you sufficient information so that you may launch your own academic discover and research. If you ignore this presentation, then we may rightfully call you either un-educatable or willfully ignorant.

First, we ask why you demand such information? If there is a gay gene, what does it prove to you, and how does it affect your acceptance of and attitude toward homosexuality? If there is no gay gene, what does it prove to you, and how does it affect your acceptance of and attitude toward homosexuality?

Secondly, this is a civil rights issue in the opinion of the most scholarly civil rights judges and law experts, and has very little to do with genes. This is my position.


Thirdly, there is a large body of evidence for both a genetic and a biologicalQUESTION to OLAF, if you, in your genetic search, find the exact location of a specific "gay gene", what do you plan to do with that finding?
Eradicate it? Destroy all humans who bear that gene? Send them to the gas chamber or ovens? Seek a "cure" for something beautiful, and perhaps useful, that God has created?

To launch your search, begin with a study to see if homosexuality is a trans-species anomaly, in particular, among mammals. For if there is, this would indicate conclusively that homosexuality is not really so anomalous as first imagined. There is a great body of study and research in this area.

Your first assignment: Use Google to readily accessible studies and research. Suggestion: Google (1) "animal homosexuality biological exuberance" or try (2) “homosexuality among mammals”. This is an excellent place for you to start.

Your second assignment: Google up a very recent study with the entry "brain scan shows differences homosexuals".

Your third assignment: Read this interesting report found with the Google entry of "Born gay? Seattle Times".

Finally, when you have completed your homework, report back to me. I have much more information for you to pursue. I am very willing to assist you however you intellectual capacity and interest leads you, so long as your mind is open and curious.

Gotta Wonder wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:11 PM:To Gotta Wonder[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 6:41 PM:I am referring to any and all activities of Bill Clinton after he lost office. Who could vet him? No one without his permission. No one has access to the records of his foundation and his contracts without his permission to make them accessible or public. Obamas people had to negotiate with him about what would b available for access.

Gotta Wonderrg8q4 wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:19 PM:True Christian[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:08 PM: How ignorant. Firstly, "Judge not that ye be judged." Secondly, what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is none of your business. Thirdly, this is a nation of laws not sins. Lastly, the issue is not sin or even sexual orientation. The issue is the rights of every individual.

To Public Schools wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:20 PM:Nonsense! There is hardly a child of a politician in Washington who attends a public school, Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative, guarded or unguarded.

Private schools and their classrooms are no more designed for unsmiling armed men than are public schools and classrooms, and the children in public and private schools are equally distracted by the Secret service.

Public Schools in Washington are the number one funded schools in this nation -- but they are uniformly terrible. EVRYONE, given appropriate income, selects a private education if their child's education is primary.

Your post was simply a screed against conservatives, and did not address the issue of public v private education for his children. Personally, I think he made the right decision. It ws the same decision that Clinton had to make for exactly the same reasons…his income finally permitted it, and the Washington D.C. public schools were not nearly as good as those in Little Rock.

To Public Schools wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:42 PM:Obama's children are already in private schools in Chicago.

Smart move.

Gotta wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:46 PM:Sally[-] wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:54 PM: . Churches acting as. I a group did participate in the pro Prop 8 debate to the tune of millions of dollars. i.e the Norman Church and the Knights of Columbus of the Roman Catholic Church.
That is their right. The consequence should b loss of tax exempt status of the churches. BTW. The issue will now move to the courts.

Public Schools wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:51 PM:To the blogger replying to me at 9:20 p.m.:
I stand by my blog.
Thank you for yours.
Your mindless "megaditto" regurgitation of conservative talking points, lacking any originality or critical thinking, made my point far more effectively than I ever could.
Again, thank you.

To Public Schools wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:04 PM:Your ego is showing, but your intelligence is lacking.

Public Schools wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:31 PM:To the blogger replying to me yet again at 9:42 p.m.:
Your tactics are beyond obvious.
You can't discuss politics based on ISSUES so you are going to attack SMALL CHILDREN.
The same way that Limbaugh ridiculed little Chelsea Clinton when she was TWELVE.
Well, I bet you "family values" conservatives are utterly envious, wishing the Bush girls had blossomed into such lovely, mature, gracious women as Chelsea Clinton.
Doing well is the best revenge.
The mindless hatred stirred up by rabble-rousers like Limbaugh and Hannity is a threat to common decency.

OF COURSE the Obama's had their children in private schools.
HE IS A U.S. SENATOR.
Democratic Senators are TARGETS of the vicious, malicious hatred stirred up by Limbaugh and Hannity.
Don't you remember that DEMOCRATIC SENATORS such as Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy got sent envelopes with actual ANTHRAX SPORES?

The Obama's have received more death threats than any other candidate or president elect in history, and it is all stirred up by the mindless hatred of Limbaugh, Hannity and those who feed at thr trough of their hate-filled bigotry.

And lacking any critical thinking or capacity for reflective analysis, all you can do is stand there, staring mindlessly off into space, echoing,
"Dittos, Rush. Megadittos."

ENOUGH wrote on Nov 22, 2008 12:59 AM:The point that 'Public Schools' is obviously missing and/or choosing to ignore, is the fact that PUBLIC SCHOOLS SUCK, especially around the D.C. area, and especially here in California. I wonder if he/she can explain to me why these areas are highly funded yet test results are still low? Thanks in advance.

Secondly, what makes the Obama supporters so sure that he will keep his campaign promises? He's a POLITICIAN, for goodness sake! Doesn't matter if they're Republican or Democrat, they will push their party agenda and the other side will do whatever it takes to block them. In short, THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM IS A BROKEN SYSTEM, BECAUSE NOTHING GETS DONE! Both sides are too busy pointing fingers! The bailouts of the banking system and (soon) the auto industry are PROOF that these men are crooks!

Thirdly, regarding the Prop 8 debate - I find it amazing that those who push for tolerance are the ones who are protesting outside churches and boycotting businesses. I call those men and women HYPOCRITES. Why? They act like children who don't get their way! If they were TRULY tolerant, they would let the state supreme court decide this matter and leave the religious community alone.

Finally, the checkpoint debate - when highway accidents occur because of unlicensed drivers, the taxpayers foot the bill. The cops are trying to PREVENT UNNECESSARY DEATHS. If you are legal, licensed and sober, you have nothing to fear from these cops. Yes, these people are trying to make a living, but driving is a privilege and NOT a right. I've been in a couple car accidents and they are NOTHING to laugh at.

He Said wrote on Nov 22, 2008 7:17 AM:Re: letter from Arne Hansen: OMG, another pseudo constitutional lawyer. Certainly there should be a PABA (Pseudo American Bar Association) for them.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 22, 2008 7:46 AM:To: Public Schools,

Your ignorance and partisanship are showing. you state:
"OF COURSE the Obama's had their children in private schools.
HE IS A U.S. SENATOR."
So, a U.S. Senators' children have more of a right to good education than everyone elses? Is that what you are saying? You have just backed up the claim that children that attend private schools get a better education overall. Why shouldn't ALL children no matter where they go to school be entitled to a good education?
If you can't see that the public school system in this country is broken you are truly blind.

Public Schools wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:10 AM:The blogs from Enough at 12:59 a.m. and MarineGunner at 7:46 a.m. are disingenuous.
It is not about whether the children of a U.S. Senator or President should have a better education than anyone else AND YOU KNOW IT.

At one level, it is about SECURITY and the unique security needs that have become mandatory because of an organized, deliberate campaign of malicious lies and hatred intentinally fomented by the hate-mongers of right wing radio, who have stirred up a wellspring of passion against Obama by saying he is an atheist, a Muslim, has a wacky CHRISTIAN pastor (atheist? Muslim? extreme Christian? - can't even keep their story straight) and that he is a terrorist, not really born in the U.S. and is even the anti-christ to usher in the End Times. And when he responds appropriately to increased security needs because of the rantings of conservative hate mongers, you criticize him for that, too.

At another level, it is your way of acknowledging that you can't discuss issues, so you are going to attack the Obamas' personal lives and, more important, their little CHILDREN, the same way Limbaugh attacked, ridiculed and made fun of little Chelsea when she was only TWELVE.
Now that Obama actually takes action and the stock market bounces back, you can't discuss real issues like the economy, healthcare, ending the war, redirecting our resources back to the real terrorists, ending torture, restoring civil liberties, ending the conservative war against science and restoring basic competence to government. Oh, and did I mention the economy? So you have to change the subject and try to make everything a personal attack on a good and decent family man and those closest to him.

Oh well, all in the name of Christian love, right?

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 22, 2008 9:09 AM:to: Public Schools,
How was I being disingenuous? I asked a simple question seeking for you to clarify your statement and you come back at me with partisan rhetoric.

Yes, I know that no ones children have entitlement to a better education than anyone elses. You are the one that made that claim by the way you worded your post.

What is your point? Are you now saying that private schools are more secure than public schools? If that is true, then why is that?
Doesn't that in and amongst itself tell you that there is something wrong with the public school system in which you so staunchly defend?

What exactly are you getting at here? Oh, and please spare me the partisan diatribe and circular arguements that makes you sound no better than the ones you are complaining about. IE: Hannity and Rush et al.

To Public Schools wrote on Nov 22, 2008 9:38 AM:Since I am an Atheist, no it is not about "Christian love" -- it is about education, a subject you simply will not stick to in your quest for blasting "organized, deliberate campaign of malicious lies and hatred intentinally(sic) fomented by the hate-mongers of right wing radio"

It's about public education. Nothing in any of my posts was about Obama, or his children, or Christian values, or anything -- just public and private education and my support for Clinton and Obama making the ONLY rational decision for their children, the same decision each of us would have made because of the failure of public education, in Washington, and here.

You simply used that discussion as a platform to launch a diatribe, without discussing the merits of the Obama decision viz a viz the best education for their children.

It is NOT "security!" Private classrooms are, as I have noted, no more inherently secure than public ones. It is education v schooling. Public schools are about exactly what their name implies, “schooling.” That is different from education – it shouldn’t be, but it is.

Public Schools wrote on Nov 22, 2008 10:12 AM:To Marine Gunner at 9:09 a.m. and the blogger replying to me at 9:38 a.m.
YES, you are being dishonest and disingenuous.
In the days before vicious hatred was stirred up by Rush Limbaugh, Amy Carter was able to attend PUBLIC SCHOOLS in Washington DC and she turned out just fine.
While there are certainly differences in quality, administration and constituency challenges among various school districts, it is PUBLIC SCHOOLS that do more than any other institution in our country to ensure the broadest base of education and opportunity.
This, of course, is what threatens the elitists who think they are better than everyone else, and want to strip the nation of this force for equality of opportunity.

These disgusting rants reflect only your frustration at being utterly unable to discuss issues so you have to attack the personal lives of good and decent leaders and levy brutal ATTACKS ON CHILDREN in the best tradition of hate-monger Limbaugh.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 22, 2008 12:39 PM:to: Public Schools,
Oh, spare me!
What decade do you live in. Do you honestly believe that the public school system of today is as good as it was in the '70s when Amy Carter was attending?
Yeah... it is all Rush limbaugh and Sean Hannitys' fault that the public schools of today don't hold a candle to the public system that used to be something to be proud of. I think you are a bit off base in your ascertations.

Who is spouting vicious hatred? Read my posts. I had not attacked you in any way. I have done nothing more than to ask you questions in order to clarify your stance. You still have not answered them. The only vitriol that I have seen is yours, against some radio talk show hosts at that. Blame all your woes on talk radio. Yeah, that is productive. Are you incapable of reasoned debate or are you only capable of spouting canned rhetoric over and over and over again. We call that a circular arguement and that is all I have seen you do. The same diatribe again and again. Get your head out of the sand please.

Why don't you question the minds behind the horrible "No child left behind" garbage or the fact that public school teachers don't make nearly enough money for what they are asked to do. How about the fact that teachers cannot fail a child because it may hurt their self-esteem and their precious egos? The thing that is getting hurt by these policies is the children, they get a false sense of entitlement and are not challenged. You know you have to learn how to fail before you can learn to succeed. If these kids don't learn that they may not always succeed then what kind of adults are they going to make? Oh, they will be like you. Whiners and blame shifters that don't take responsibility for anything they do but shift the blame to the most convieniant target. I am done trying to get through to you. You have no interest in the betterment of our society. All I see from you is an adamant deflection of reality.

Joser wrote on Nov 22, 2008 1:21 PM:I hope they keep having these check points. To all the poor complaining raza I say to you, If you came here Illegaly be prepared to face the consequences. My parents came here LEGALY, they waited their turn, and when they got here they obeyed the law.
Where do you guys get off thinking this country owes you anything? Start walking to work, or take the bus.
I'm tired of these people making the legal hispanic American community look bad. If you do the crime, be ready to do the time.

Public Schools wrote on Nov 22, 2008 1:38 PM:MarineGunner at 12:39 p.m. now backtracks.
Your blog was not at all about a general issue such as public schools. Lacking any ability to challenge Obama on any actual issue, you attacked a unique family in a unique situation.

And you are the one wallowing in the past. When is the last time you volunteered in a public school?
I volunteer in schools - in classrooms - every year including this year and you don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.

And of course you didn't attack me, because I'll strike back. Exemplifying Limbaugh-like cowardice, you attacked two defenseless little girls. I hope you're real proud of yourself.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 22, 2008 7:40 PM:to: Public Schools,
What are you talking about? Did you even read my posts? Do you remember the posts YOU made?
I have not nor am I interested in challenging Obama on ANY issues. I asked you a question which you still have not answered.
You brought up Amy Carter not me. What 2 little girls did I attack and how did I attack them?

Put the piece away dude, you have had waaay too much.