Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 3:46 AM:Here are a few quotes from an article in the San Francisco Chronicle (sfgate) entitled "Prop. 8 backers splinter as court fight resumes" and one of their online comments.
From the article -
"The group, now known as the Campaign for Children and Families, is run by Randy Thomasson, who for years has been one of California's most visible opponents of gay rights and what he bills as "the homosexual agenda."
The people behind Prop. 8 have been butting heads with Thomasson for years, arguing that his efforts to outlaw same-sex marriage and curb domestic partnership arrangements are a long step further than a majority of California voters is willing to go."
"In 2005 and again in January, Thomasson and his allies proposed initiatives that not only would bar same-sex marriage but that also "voids or makes unenforceable" rights conferred by California law on couples, gay or heterosexual, registered as domestic partners, including community property, child custody, hospital visitation and insurance benefits."
"A Field Poll released in May showed that nearly a third of California voters opposed same-sex marriage, but still believed gay and lesbian couples should be allowed to have civil unions granting them the rights of married couples. Surveys done earlier this year by GOP pollsters also showed that any measure attacking domestic partnership rights had little or no chance of passing in California."

The comment -
"Wow, even they're even bigoted against their fellow bigots. That's the ultimate bigotry."

No additional Alf comment necessary.
Regards, Alf.

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:15 AM:By George, I think that Christine Rideout has got it!
Since there has been an unholy alliance, in spirit at least, between "big oil" and "the big three" for some time,
now it's time for the obscene profits derived from manipulating supply to achieve said obscene profits to go toward rewarding the incompetent bunglers who have for over 35 YEARS, despite the "Arab Oil Embargo" and lots of governmental nudging via CAFE standards, resisted and dragged their heels against making reliable, high quality and fuel-efficient cars.
Our Honda Accord has a little over 120,000 miles on it and is at about HALF its lifespan for ONE engine. With virtually anything from the "big three", you're lucky if you make it to 100,000 miles on an engine, let alone have 100,000 miles be less than half its EXPECTED lifespan, does the term "planned obsolescence" ring a bell?
How about UAW assembly line workers making between $35 and $70 PER HOUR OR MORE? In the case of the UAW, we’re getting one whole heckuva lot less than we’re paying for! The "we" is anyone who buys from the "big three".
Regards, Alf.

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:15 AM:NOT bailout, Christine Rideout.
Big Oil should BUY out the Big Three.

Man, what a sweet deal that would be!
The only problem with that scenario is: the UAW. They need to be jettisoned.
Under a new management, I think they could move those jobs to a "right-to-work" state, and do very, very well.
The current problem with the unions is, they are paying $70 plus bucks an hour, while Toyota pays about $40.
With $2,600 in retiree legacy costs alone per GM car, it's just insane.
It's an open secret that what we are actually talking about in "Bailing Out the Big Three", we're talking about bailing out the Unions. Which is a terrible situation to be in financially, where the employees are able to make demands on your pricing, over and above what the marketplace will bear. But, this is a part of that dinosaur thinking, this Old World Liberal Democrat thinking, where...
It's still 1956, everyone and their brothers around the world wants stuff made in America, especially cars, and you effectively, have NO competition.
With nothing but money coming in, sure..
in that world, Unions could demand, and get paid. Government could demand, and get paid.
But, as my former President once said: This ain't your Daddy's World.
Some people haven't caught up to that fact.. yet. If people aren't willng to make the adjustments necessary to keep the business afloat, aside from any...
{Now, pay attention all your Lib's, I'm educating you now} .. ANY Gummint bailout, then they deserve to fail.
You can not be allowed to run your business into the ground, by your own steam, then cry poor to me.
that simply ain't gonna fly with this taxpayer.
One of the best things in our law is the option of bankruptcy.
It allows the protection, and the time to restructure, build a new business model, and a fresh start...
with NO TAXPAYER MONEY.
End of Chapter One......

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:35 AM:If you ever wanted to test the theorem held by Liberals, i.e. Bigger, more Massive Government run by smart people, runs it best...
One look no further than one of FDR's greatests blunders under his Raw Deal for America, than the The Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935.

A little history, locally...
SDG&E was formed in 1881 by five men, five private investors who saw a public need. They took a risk, invested, borrowed, and ended up bringing light into the lives of San Diegans.
One of the outgrowths of this electric company was public transportation.
Let me rephrase that, privately run transportation for the public to use.
With excessive energy from the power station, and unable to store it for future use, they found another use, electric trolly system for public use.
Truly, a win-win.

Then comes the Depression of 1929, and within the New Deal package of raw deals, is this PUHCA. It was a law that regulated of electric utilities. and they did so, by limiting their operations to a single state, and subjecting them to another level of bueracratic control, state regulation.
And then they threw in this little goodie.. Forcing divestitures so that each became a single integrated system serving a limited geographic area.
In other words, these private owners could no longer run the electric trolly service. They were forced to sell.

My point being, here we had a good working situation, the public thru private enterprise got power for their homes, and also mass transit.
We didn't need government intervention, but it was imposed by fiat.
And ever since that dreadful day, we have had to live with the consequences of FDR and his Raw Deal.
This is what I mean as "living inside the FDR box." All future power companies therefore had to receive approval, from ideologically entrenched bueracrats. This is also what I mean by "running a business by proxy", in that, any business.. really, has as it's automatic co-pilot the government flunkies who have no real world experience of ever running any type of company.
End of Chapter Two....

Pluto wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:36 AM:I hate Bush & Cheney as much as anybody, but let's stop talking about impeachment. It's way too late. Pelosi and the Dems chickened out for whatever reason. Instead of impeachment, we should be talking about prosecuting Bush & Co for war crimes. They should be prosecuted in U.S. courts, but it looks like Obama will chicken out, too. They can be prosecuted in the International Criminal Court and maybe some others. They are the biggest criminals in the U.S. If justice and democracy mean anything, they should be prosecuted.

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:36 AM:The letter from Nathan Wesley points to why Obama will be very busy indeed when he is inaugurated.
On top of the previous transgretions perpetrated by GWB and on top of those "parting gifts" from GWB, will be THE ECONOMY,
the "big three" who have malingered their way with the help of the UAW into insolvency and
the Iraq - Afghanistan - Pakistan mangled mess of murk.
I'd say that Obama has his work cut out for him.
Regards, Alf.

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:41 AM:Hey.. eh... David Cutter...
Aren't ya forgetting something?

We had a Congressional vote.
If the President goes down, so should every last one who voted for it, because... {now this is on the american civics quiz} Only Congress has the power to declare.
And DECLARE they did.
Sorry, NEXT!

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:58 AM:Oh....!
I beg to differ with Shashikant
Ambegaokar.

Huge cuts in the State budget are called for. It will be the only way to bring our financial house in order after the regime of Liberal Democrats running the place into the ground since 1971.

And here this is again!
Did I not cover this only yesterday?
Ya see what happens when people scroll past, or use the (-) on my posts?
UNEDUCATED!

I have warned you about these Leftist despots. they want to secure complete power, because folks....
Let's be frank & honest here.
They don't believe in democracy.
I'm sorry, they don't.
They believe in oligarchal control, where the "smart people, who love big, and bigger gummint are running things."

And then look at the next logical step for them: "Republicans want a cuts-only budget and are using the two-thirds rule to demand it."

This guy only yesterday said he wanted to do away with the 2/3 rule.
Ya see? Cause that's what Stalinists do.
Now about this time, many of my more liberal friends will be saying: "but ron.. but Ron... there you go again calling people names."

NO.......... I'm being descriptive.
I'm defining, by their actions based upon a history of other's who acted just like this.
It's much like this story we all read maybe a year ago, about radio-controlled thermostats inside your own homes. Obviously, someone inside the government thought this was a great idea, this Orwellain tact of the State monitoring your private life.
It should just scare the be-jesus out of any god-fearing, America loving person to think, to know....
That someone inside the government actually thinks like this, and then proposes it. Sure, thsi thing was put off... for now. But, who know's?
Next year? If they gain a few more seats?

Wanting to do away with long held rules that have served us well are what Big gummint types will do, because they always believe they are the smartest people in the room, and everyone else is just a slub.
We don't need people like this, we need to get rid of people like this.
End of Chapter Three...

Vista Granny wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:11 AM:Sharon Reid forgets that the freight train to Escondido has been using the (now)Sprinter's tracks for 100 years or so. Why blame the Sprinter for its waking her at midnight? Besides, any normal person would soon learn to sleep through a recurring noise of that type. As for the Sprinter's bells and horn? Just go down by a crossing and wait for a train to come. The noise is almost non existent -- in fact, it seems almost dangerous for the trains to be so quiet. Some people just have to complain. I wonder when she moved to her Mar Vista location?

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:16 AM:Ya know.. This letter here from Sharon Reid really ought to be read very critically by my more Liberal friends.

"The North County Transit District gave Vista $2.25 million for neighborhood relief from noise at the railroad crossings. At the Vista City Council meeting Nov. 18, city officials provided $100,000 from that fund to pay for murals to cover graffiti."

Oviously, some are not getting the utopian message: "We are all in this together."
Cause, under that scenario.. these little delinquents would not be painting on their own property.

I have a suggestion: public caning.

And I'll supply the cane, at no cost.
Sure beats paying $100K a year to clean up, when some disabled people can't get a free ride to the drug store.
See what I mean about stealing from the "least of these?"
Money that should have been spent on truly needy people, won't be...
because some clown thinks he or she has the right to color.

jvc wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:38 AM:What do we need to cut to balance the state budget?

For Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:43 AM:NTC, how about reducing a contributors input to one million words each day. This way Ron would be finished by 6AM each day and perhaps he would then have time to do something that is actually productive with his life, other than overload this blog with randomly positioned letters. Does anyone actually read (let alone have time to read) this guy's endless dribble? And does Ron really think anyone really cares what he has to say every other minute of his life?

Pluto wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:52 AM:Ron @6:41am is wrong as usual. Congress voted based on White House lies about WMD, Iraq ties to AQ, etc. Also, it wasn't clear they were voting for war. Bush lied about everything. Congress is somewhat complicit, however. They should have known. The truth was out there, but Repugs were going to vote with Bush regardless of the truth, and plenty of Dems fell into line. There's plenty of blame to go around, but the White House is certainly guilty of massive war crimes, and that's just fine with Ron, Chuck, Raoul & some other so-called "patriots".

to Kate McWhirter wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:14 AM:FYI, Kate...........THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GLOBAL WARMING!

I am 45 years old and I have lived thru the next ice age, acid rain, hole in the ozone, 20 draughts and now global warming.

It just another fact-less man made theory, made up to take YOUR money!

I don't blame you Kate, that is just the mindless brian washing you got in public school and liberal colleges.

Don't fall for it Kate, your smarter than that!

To PLUTO wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:18 AM:Pluto , you wouldn't know the first thing about being a patriot. You yammer on about mostly nothing.

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:19 AM:>>>For Ron @7:43 AM: blah, blah, blah... blah, blah.. blah, blah, blah.. {then he says} And does Ron really think anyone really cares what he has to say every other minute of his life?>>>

Well, obviously you read it. And obviously, it bothers you.
So.. the way I see it:
Mission Accomplished!

OBAMAPREZ wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:23 AM:What is this getting to be, North County Times?
A new daily ritual?
Today it is two more political cartoons, from Steve Kelly and Lisa Benson, who both ridiculed Obama because he "lacks experience" and are now trying to make fun of him because he is, what? Hiring people with experience!
Let me explain (AGAIN!!!) how this works: the President decides policy. The staff implements the policy. What better than to have POLICY decided by someone with fresh ideas from outside the beltway, and then implemented by those who actually have experience making the machinery of Washington work. But of course this is just way over the heads of conservatives like Nick.

These cartoonists join the chorus of conservatives who prove once again they don't have the slightest idea how government (which they want to dismantle in a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure) works.
Why would anyone trust them to manage economic issues ever again?

To Garnett Hatfield wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:28 AM:You should keep your dog and it's poop in your own yard. Dogs don't need beaches to survive. A small backyard and a daily walk will suffice.We the citizens don't need to pay for services to clean after your pets when you're too lazy to pickup it's poop.

to Kate McWhirter wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:37 AM:The best we can do to help the "global warming" trend slow down is to take action ourselves. Take 5 minute showers, don't do courtesy flushes, drive less, use less energy in the house,buy fuel efficient cars, replace lawns with gravel,pavers or artificial turf and use native drought tolerant plants. The list is endless. We can make a difference. The best thng we can do is have less children, because that's what puts the most demands on the planet.

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:42 AM:Well, "To PLUTO" at 8:18AM,
you, of course, are quite wrong.
It is the duty of every citizen to be informed and to call government on their errors and praise their accomplishments. GWB and company are the most vile and despicable occupants of the executive branch since I can remember (about 50 years) and MUCH further back than that.
The meaning of the word "Patriot" is not "my country right or wrong", it is "my country right or I must work to fix it".
Regards, Alf.

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:46 AM:Now... Did I, or did I not ask you Lib's NOT to use this excuse?

>>>Pluto @7:52 AM: Ron @6:41am is wrong as usual. Congress voted based on White House lies about WMD, Iraq ties to AQ, etc. Also, it wasn't clear they were voting for war. Bush lied about everything.>>>

That would make them...
Dumber than Bush? LOL
Do I hear you correctly?

DD Wiz wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:46 AM:Impeachment
The published letter from David Cutter (and a spate of others on recent days) are right in principle that Bush merits impeachment (and conviction for war crimes), however I must reluctantly agree with the post from "Pluto" (6:36am) that my Democrats dropped the ball and, since it is not going to happen, we should be looking at other responses that we can and should implement to try to turn back the clock of criminal injustice that has been perpetrated against the American people and the world.

Further, the post from "Pluto" (7:52am) is correct that those Democrats who voted for the military authorization in Iraq did so based on LIES about WMD (those who were negligent in not having read that year's National Intelligence Estimate), and that they were authorizing the threat of force ONLY as a last resort, to push along stalled negotiations. It is important to remember, also, that almost half the Democrats did read the NIE, were not fooled by Bush, and did vote against the authorization.
And the response from "To PLUTO" (8:18am) is just childish name calling. "Pluto" knows more about real patriotism than this phony ever will.

Arm Chair Expertise
And again, the post from "to Kate McWhirter" (8:14am) is just another self-styled armchair expert who thinks he knows more about science than real experts, yet can't cite a single credential to back it up.
He joins those who talk about theories to take our money, but can't point to one single academic or research scientist from among the THOUSANDS who have written peer-reviewed studies on the subject, who has gotten rich off this academic or scientific research. In contrast, it is very easy to quickly identified the oil company CEO's, stockholders and the few renegade scientists who were bought off and wrote NON peer-reviewed propaganda pieces who have made millions and billions in record profits that depend on their continued reliance on the DUMBING DOWN of science education in the CONSERVATIVE WAR AGAINST SCIENCE by the Big Oil Bullies and pushers of our addiction to non-renewable FINITE FILTHY FOSSIL FUELS purchased from dependence on terrorists and dictators.
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:54 AM:I agree with "Ron" again. GAAAAAK!
In his 6:15AM post he says "the UAW. They need to be jettisoned".
Get the UAW out of the "big three",
REPLACE virtually all management and
they might have a chance.
As it is those arrogant (your favorite explitive here) have pretty much destroyed themselves and their companies and they want more TAXPAYER MONEY to continue down their foolish path. Sounds like GWB, doesn't it?
Regards, Alf.

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:55 AM:Dude, now ya really need to settle down, "OBAMAPREZ" @8:23 AM.

We all know this started with the selection of Old Joe "Bankruptcy Bill" NOBiden. Who never had a foreign policy, he was ever right about.

NObama, selected NOBiden precisely because everyone knew, and was extremely nervous about his lack of experience. We needed a grown-up, Barackous needed adult supervision.
Now, I wouldn't call NOBiden's experience & judgement good, but hey.. that's not my call. It was NObama's, and he chose ratherly poorly, by most people's opinion.

Interesting last couple of days, eh?
Maybe no tax increases? LOL
Wad I tell you? This guy is as slippery, and probably, in all reality, maybe just slightly slicker than the last Dem Pres we had.
What they heck, he did away with his competition. And if Hillary does take the Sec. State spot... which, I love to add, will bring with it much, much heat to all of Billy Boy's activites, if she can clear it, she'll be off the election circuit, leaving the field open for NObama unchallenged.
Pretty smart really. And if she doesn't make it due to something that pops up with Bill's stuff, she'll be a victim, NObama will have completely eliminated her in the future, and he will have done what even no Republican has been able to do, up this point.
End of Chapter Four...

Buy out Big 3 wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:58 AM:Actually, the UAW should buy the Big 3 since the Big 3 “sold out” to the UAW years ago.

Karl wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:07 AM:jvc
[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:38 AM:What do we need to cut to balance the state budget?

Let's start by letting EVERY person/department that drew funds last year spend the same amount this year. No colas or raises period accross the board.

Peace

Zeus wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:07 AM:The Journal of Religion and Society reports in a new study that societies that are religious are worse off than societies that are not religious. In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infections, teen pregnancy and abortion. The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, even though it is one of the most religious. The author concludes "the widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted." Perhaps societies that look to themselves instead of invisible Gods are more rational and take better care of one another and of themselves.

WELL SAID wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:11 AM:"Dispensing other people's money, whether in the form of prescription drugs or federally funded (read: controlled) education is the agenda of European socialists, not the philosophy of America's Founders." – Dr. Balint Vazsonyi (1936 - 2003), Hungarian born concert pianist and political philosopher.

Karl wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:27 AM:The two letters today suggesting that Bil Oil buy out/lend money to the Big Three is genius. Can you imagine the UAW negotiating with Big Oil? I'd pay to be in a gallery on that one.

Peace

xgm8w

The Plan for Detroit wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:30 AM:The auto industry is being pushed to come back to Congress with a “plan.”

It isn’t that hard because the model against which they must compete is a known quantity – American Toyota, you know, the “furrin’ car” that won the NASCAR Manufacturer’s Trophy this year.

Of course American Toyota is not foreign at all, or at least not most of them – they are built in foreign countries like Tennessee and Texas, and their quality is extremely high and their cost is extremely low, at least compared to their General Motors and Ford competitors.

Toyota, Nissan, VW, Mercedes et al were not in Washington with a tin cup. Toyota, Nissan, VW, Mercedes all use American labor in American plants, and they have exceeded American quality for lower cost for decades.

Any auto “executive” worth his expense account could put together in a single day a package to make Detroit Iron competitive. The move to sell two of the GM seven private jets is like a busload of attorneys going over a cliff, just a good start, and barely that.

For quality reasons, I have owned exactly one American Big Three car since 1957, and that was a Taurus SHO with a Yamaha-designed and built engine. The Big Three have vastly improved their quality over recent years, but the delta remains large, because the foreign makers have not sat by without also improving.

The problem is management without a clue as to their actual worth – and a UAW with exactly the same problem.

UAW wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:30 AM:I agree that the union has added mightily to Detroit's problems. But let's not forget why the unions came into existence in the first place. If there were other kinds of safeguards for workers in terms of salary, benefits, working conditions, and the rest, it could work without unions (as the Japanese have demonstrated). But if the bossmen revert to the kinds of expoitation that were so common in the past, they will, again, ensure that unions will reappear. It has been shown thousands of times that belief in the goodness of employers to keep the free market successful is a delusion. If everyone played fair, it would work. But everyone DOESN'T play fair, so if you are looking for someone to blame, it should be the "bad" employers. Few though they might be, they are the ones that caused workers to unite, governmental regulatory agencies to be needed, and all the rest. And they will not disappear. Sorry, that's reality. To believe in the unregulated market as though these sob's did not exist is the same as believing that people are good, and crimes would never happen, so we don't need police. Exactly the same.

Hope for REAL Change wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:39 AM:O.K. it is dreaming, but just as Nixon alone could have made the opening to China or only Clinton could have made welfare reform work, only Obama could rein in union excesses in manufacturing, local government and education.

Three of the four problem areas of this recession were caused or exacerbated by union excesses, and the fourth was the banking industry.

If Obama wants to serve the nation and make a real change, this is one are in which only he ONLY he can score accomplishments.

Employee unions are bankrupting cities and states, the UAW has the Big Three auto industries by the throat, and the schools are run solely for the teachers unions and not the students. The fourth failure, the lending industry, was a combination of governmental egalitarian excess and human greed.

Obama has the clout to make progress in all of these areas, but by philosophy, education and genuflecting to his political supporters he is more likely to exacerbate rather than help any of those situations.

Of course Democrats felt that way about Nixon addressing the China problem, and in fact Republicans never thought Clinton would embrace and then claim credit for welfare reform.

Vista Granny wrote on Nov 24, 2008 10:00 AM:I am pro-union (though I never belonged to one), but I also believe the UAW went too far. But, why did they? What was wrong with the whole set up? Perhaps part of the problem was that the US made and sold so many cars after WWII and thought that would go on forever. They ignored all warning signs. Perhaps the union bennies wouldn't matter so much now, if the big three had made some changes long ago. They just believed it was easier to sell one behemoth than two or three decent autos. They might have been right then, but they did not look ahead. Now did they? And as for the health insurance they pay for workers and retirees, that wouldn't be necessary if we had a national health insurance program for everyone. Also, IMHO, no one needs to retire at 45 or 50 with full salary and benefits for a lifetime, including civil service and military.

DD Wiz wrote on Nov 24, 2008 10:02 AM:Republican Rx Patience
The syndicated column from Steven Chapman echoes the failed Republican economic strategy so often espoused by "sdraoul": that economic ups and downs have nothing to do with who is President or who is Fed Chair, it is just "business cycles" and the Republicans problem is that they just happen to have the bad luck of being in office when everything comes crashing down (Hoover, Reagan/Keating, Bush/Gramm).
Once again, it goes to the heart of the Republican belief that government does not have a role in an issue as public and vital as the economy. They believe that government can't do anything, and their economic impotence becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
This is like believing that a car will steer itself and then, when they take their hands off the wheel, wondering why there is a crash. Putting a HANDS-ON DRIVER at the wheel is the only way to steer the economic ship of state.
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

LOL Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 10:04 AM:"Ron
[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:46 AM:
Now... Did I, or did I not ask you Lib's NOT to use this excuse?"

Ron, YOU are dumber than dubya if you think anyone cares what you asked anyone to do.

Ms M wrote on Nov 24, 2008 10:15 AM:Speaking of our CIC, "decider", "mission accomplished" president:

Bush 'very pleased' with Iraq war outcome:
US President George W. Bush believes the Iraq war was a success and is "very pleased" with what is happening there, he said in a pre-recorded interview broadcast on a Japanese television network Sunday.

"I think the decision to remove Saddam Hussein was right," Bush told the Sunday Project programme of the private Asahi network.

Saddam was an enemy of the United States and a lot of people thought he had weapons of mass destruction, Bush said, adding "remarkable" progress had been made in Iraq since the late dictator was toppled in 2003....

1/20/08 can't come soon enough. PATHETIC!!!!

Economist wrote on Nov 24, 2008 10:22 AM:Where are all the people complaining that Obama (who hasn't been sworn in yet) is responsible for the stock market collapses.
When he gave his first press conference after the election, stocks spiked.
When he revealed his economic team last Friday at 3:00 p.m. Eastern time, the stock market leaped 500 points in just the last hour.
Over the weekend he revealed more of his economic plans and, guess what, stocks are up.

The problem is not that Obama got elected, but that he hasn't been sworn in yet.
Every time he does something (what little he can do right now), the markets react favorably.

The Obama recovery is ON!

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 10:32 AM:I completely agree with everything that David Cutter says in his letter and would make only one change (caps are the change) -
"Bush and Cheney set up a worldwide network of secret prisons, where torture has become the norm. They gave themselves the power to wiretap, open the mail of, search, and indefinitely detain any American OR ANYONE."
Regards, Alf.

oh Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 10:32 AM:Not "dumber than W", Ron, just cowardly. The Dems knew that Bush, Cheney, and Powell were successfully selling the WMD/911 story to Americans and lacked the political backbone to join the vote against. It's worse than being dumb. It's being cowardly. Contrast this to the 20+ Democrats who DID vote against Bush, who displayed both intelligence AND courage. And note especially Barack Obama, who called it exactly right at a moment that could have been suicide, politically. Let's celebrate that those who were smart and courageous have been elected by the people. And celebrate that those who were dishonest and cowardly, like McCain, have been rejected. We're on the right track again. Comprende?

Vista Granny wrote on Nov 24, 2008 11:25 AM:In answer to "well said" -- perhaps our founders didn't all think alike. In or near the year 1636, the brand new town of Swansea, Massachusetts held a fund raiser to raise money for a public school. They felt education was a must. Admittedly, they used the Bible for a text book, but then, they were all religious folk and members of the same church. But, it was a PUBLIC SCHOOl supported by the government of the town.

Karl wrote on Nov 24, 2008 11:26 AM:Alf you're gonna love this one. While cleaning every nook and cranny for the festivities on Thursday I came across another old campaign button.

"Democrats for Nixon". Now that's a keeper.

Peace

k96nv

To Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 11:26 AM:No I don't read it and yes it does annoy. That's my problem. If you want to annoy people why don't you follow people around at a mall and talk gibberish to them nonstop? At least this way you could get some realistic feedback.

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 11:41 AM:Ah, don't even worry about it, "Alf"
@8:54 AM, agree'n with "Ron" again is not cause for alarm.
Only when you start agree'n wit me 90% of the time, then the Lib's will start to have a problem wit ya.
So, for now, your on safe ground.

As for the business model of the Big 3.
This is the very kind of Corporate Statism you see in other western social democracy's.
It's a staleness, of a huge buearocracy that can't steer past, or turn at the appropiate times to remain competitive.
If You want to see a fair piece of goverment/private sector continuity that works well, or has worked well in the past?
Look up "Clarence L. “Kelly” Johnson" and "Skunk Works."

OBAMAPREZ wrote on Nov 24, 2008 11:49 AM:Ronnie Boy at 8:55 a.m.: the problem with the effluent that emits from your keyboard is not that you say too much but that, you actually say nothing meaningful at all.
Saw your blog.
Saw nothing that merited a reply.

Who ya gonna trust wrote on Nov 24, 2008 11:49 AM:A fake god on this blog, or WebMD?

QUOTE: "Religion appears to soothe the body as well as the soul, as people who are highly religious tend to live longer than others, a review of more than 40 scientific studies has found.
In fact, overall, the people who were most involved in their religions were 29% more likely to be alive when the various studies were completed than were their nonreligious counterparts.
Exactly how religious involvement boosts health is unclear, the researchers say. But given the findings, they write, future research should focus on the precise way that religion extends life. The report was published in the journal Health Psychology.
"Some people believe that religious involvement instills healthy beliefs and behaviors," Michael E. McCullough, PhD, who did the research while at the National Institute for Healthcare Research in Rockville, Md., tells WebMD. For example, religious people tend to smoke and drink less, and may be slightly less obese than nonreligious people.
"They also receive a lot of positive social support that helps them to cope with stress," says McCullough, who is now an associate professor of psychology at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.
Finally, "religion helps people to develop a coherent set of beliefs about the world that help them to make sense of their stress and suffering," he says. "All of these factors are probably at least partially responsible for the links between religious involvement and health."
And that's good news for the more than 90% of American adults who are affiliated with some type of formal religion, and the nearly 96% who believe in God or a universal spirit."
END Quote

ya just gotta by-pass this minority who hates religion, and religious people.
what are they.. afterall? 4%...?

To Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 12:15 PM:War is not fought with the Marquess of Queensbury rules. The British tried that during the Revolutionary War -- they wore bright red uniforms and marched in straight lines.

War is fought with the Marquis de Sade's Rules. The American Revolutionaries, who worse civilian clothes, fired from behind trees and bridges.

Boy Scouts do not win wars.

Prop Gr8 wrote on Nov 24, 2008 12:34 PM:No Prop Gr8 letters today, but the comments keep coming.

Alf, did you set your alarm to be first in line and first off-topic? (3:46 am)

Looking Glass wrote on Nov 24, 2008 12:48 PM:I agree with Alf, Ron and Vista Granny - The UAW is bleeding the big 3 dry and needs the boot. Management needs to be restructured and plants need to churn out cars that the American public wants to buy. That's what the big 3 need to do and if they don't do it they will fall. Taxpayer money will only postpone the inevitable!

Mary wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:08 PM:Obama has not even taken over yet and he is going to take over as the worst president ever. It is obvious from all his doublespeak re the economy and his so-called plan, that there is someone else behind the curtain pulling the strings of the Wizard of Obama. His economic plan has no details and when asked direct questions, it is , uh, uh, uh, uh... because the guy behind the curtain hasn't told him yet. Jeez, this guy is the worse. Bush looks like a genius now. The reason they aren't going to impeach Bush is because technically he didn't break any laws and if they were to attempt to impeach Bush and limit the president's power the democrats may actually cause their puppet to have less power. That is why Pelosi and Reid said impeaching Bush is off the table, they want power. There haven't been tens of thousands Americans killed in Iraq, give me a break, and hundreds of thousands of Iraq people, give me a double break! Saddam killed over 400,000 of his own people. Plus show me all the Americans currently in jail because of what Bush implemented. How do you know Obama is lying? hint: look in the lip area.

Religion wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:36 PM:I suspect that both reports are true, "who ya gonna trust". That religion is associated with many aspects of human health and happiness is well documented. Of course, this says absolutely nothing about whether any religious beliefs are true. Many studies show that people who are depression-prone and pessimistic are also more realistic and accurate in their beliefs about the world than are optimists. So delusions can be comforting, can help protect from mental problems and even extend life. Humans are an interesting species, for sure.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:37 PM:to: For Ron @ 7:43 AM:

Ok, so you are now requesting censorship when someone says something you don't like or speaks in terms you are incapable of understanding?

Golly, whose agenda is that? hmm... let me think.. oh yeah, the liberal/socialists!

Niiiiice one buddy. Way to show your stripes.

How about Buddhism wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:40 PM:In this debate about the value of religion, I'm wondering how this is defined. For example, Buddhism is the religion of millions of people, but is atheistic. Maybe a good test case. There is a belief system that includes a strong, admirable morality. It includes (or can include) participation in a community of fellow-worshippers. It provides (much better than Judeo-Christian religions) a coherent understanding of suffering. But it is atheistic. No God. Just the world as it is. Interesting that God-belief seems to not be an essential part of religion that is of benefit to people.

to Who ya gonna trust wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:48 PM:Can you explain why if you go county by county in America, those counties with the highest level of religious belief also have the highest rates of crime, divorce, drug use, abortion, murder, rape, unwed pregnancy, social disease and a variety of other social ills. While those counties with the lowest level of religious belief have the lowest levels of all the aforementioned social ills. While religious people may live longer they also cause more social problems. Even if you look overseas, the vastly less religious European countries have lower levels of these social ills.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:51 PM:to: OBAMAPREZ @ 8:23 AM:

I think you are missing the point. Obama does NOT have enough experience... doing anything other than jabbering and making promises he most likely will not be able to keep. He ran on a ticket of "change". He is bringing into his cabinet many Clinton administration people. This is not "change" at all, it is more like running a retread on your car.

Speaking of that: I don't use retreads, they tend to fall apart in very short time and are generally an unsafe proposition.

We learned our lesson after 8 years of Clinton. Experience only counts for so much when that experience is a bad one.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:07 PM:to: Vista Granny @ 10:00 AM:
Most of what you are saying is correct, the D3 have made some serious errors over the years. The UAW has taken advantage of their position by threatening strikes and work stoppages in order to coerce the D3 into deals that were not beneficial to the overall health of the economy. However, you also have to lay blame on the Federal Government for instituting CAFE standards and regulations on the D3 that were unrealistic as well as giving many overseas manufactuters a pass on those same regulations and standards, all in the name of promoting a global economy. There are many sides to every story and this one has more sides than one can easily identify in a short blog.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:18 PM:to Zeus:
Please pick up and read some Joseph Campbell. I would suggest starting with the 4 book set "The Masks of God"

I have read many papers by the "Journal of Religion and Society", and I have yet to see anything of the sort you are referring to published by them. Could you please provide a link or transcript of this "new study" in which you are espousing?

Also, while you are at it, check out the post above my by "Who ya gonna trust"

jvc wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:31 PM:How are today's cartoons going to look favorably on Obama? What will it look like when he actually is sworn in?

sdraoul wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:38 PM:DD is fanaticizing again. He actually thinks he can compete intellectually and economically with Steve Chapman or me.

He forgot to mention the Carter Recession complete with hyperinflation and huge unemployment and the highest interest rates in modern history.

He also forgot Clinton's recession, which hit in December of 2000 complete with high unemployment.

Then he forgot the high inflation and unemployment of Harry Truman that followed the obnoxiously high unemployment of FDR's after five full years of FDR and his magnificent alphabet agencies.

He also forgot Lyndon Johnson's "Guns and Butter and 58,000 dead Americans.

Then he forgot the illegal campaign money from China that Clinton/Gore sought and received because there was no "legal controlling authority" that forbid it.

Oh did I mention Adelphi Cable, MCC and ENRON that ripped off America under the benign neglect policies of campaign fundraising by Clinton/Gore.

Focal Point wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:38 PM:To Alf[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 12:15 PM:
Most of the battles in the American Civil War were fought by European methods. The Red Coat was only costly to the English during the French and Indian War.

Who ya gonna trust wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:41 PM:So people in highly religous countries live longer? Perhaps you should compare life expectancy and infant mortality rates in the USA (with its religuous majority) to other countries. You'll discover your story does not hold water. Than there are the issues of murder, teen pregnancy, STDs etc. which you intentionally ignored to make religion-based countries apper as beacons of light, which they are not (based on the facts).

Ms M wrote on Nov 24, 2008 3:12 PM:Mary
[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:08 PM:...personally, and this coming from a Democrat, I think the reason they did not impeach Bush is because Rove had some big time dirt on some folks not because Bush's actions did not warrant impeachment. Most politicians, if they have been around long enough, have skeletons in their closets.

Karl wrote on Nov 24, 2008 3:27 PM:I can't believe it, homerun, hole-in-one! I just finished the laundry and all the socks matched. What are the odds? I was taught in College (Cal Poly SLO) that the centrifugal force of any given dryer spins socks right out of the Universe.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. May all your Thanksgivings be extraordinary.

Peace

v4ad1

DD Wiz wrote on Nov 24, 2008 3:33 PM:"sdraoul's" Big Dodge
The post from "sdraoul" (2:38pm) can pretend to address something new, but in his utter desperation he is just spinning his wheels and repeating the same old stuff that has been answered several times before.

More yadda yadda about Carter and inflation and interest rates. Been there, done that. "sdraoul" simply can't grasp the concept that these are elements controlled by the Federal Reserve; Carter was saddled by Arthur Burns (appointed by Nixon) and finally appointed Paul Volcker, the most successful Fed Chair in history, in his last year. Volcker served until early 1987, through most of the Reagan years, and brought down inflation and interest rates.

"sdraoul" needs to take basic intro to history and economics and someday maybe he'll be ready for a serious, adult discussion of the subject. Sheesh!
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 3:46 PM:"Karl @ 3:27 PM: I can't believe it, homerun, hole-in-one! I just finished the laundry and all the socks matched. What are the odds? I was taught in College (Cal Poly SLO) that the centrifugal force of any given dryer spins socks right out of the Universe.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. May all your Thanksgivings be extraordinary.

Peace>>>

Good for you, buddy.
Good to know someone has their priorities straight!

The Change We Need wrote on Nov 24, 2008 3:58 PM:Obama's behavior so far? The changes we need are happening already! The main change was to defeat "stay the course" of Bush's philosophy of government. McCain offered more of the same, and America spoke. So that's a huge change right off the bat. Next: his appointments have been applauded by Democrats and moderate (and true conservative) Republicans such as David Brooks. These picks have also tended to send the stock market up whenever he announces one. Most non-ideologues agree that most of his picks have been chosen for their intelligence and competence, so that's enormous change number two: Bush picked people that would fawn over him, that were campaigners for him, and who were pretty incompetent. To say that some of them are Clintonistas is to miss the point entirely. "Change" never meant (and no one wanted it to mean" that every appointee be someone who has no history of service to the country in DC. McCain stupidly chose Sarah Palin thinking that this exact "qualification" would be what voters wanted. Sorry, but her ignorance was not something that brought him a lot of votes. As far as I can tell, Obama is off to a great start, and all the naysayers and sour-grapers and borderline hysterics will have to wait and see how he does, who supports him, as time goes by. Everyone in the world except hardline Bush-diehards know that W left the next President with as big a set of disasters as anyone alive can remember. So we don't expect magic from our messiah, just realism and persistance, intelligence and hope. That's enormous change number 3!

Focal Point wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:00 PM:Who ya gonna trust[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:41 PM:Is it a specific religion?
There was a group of Russians who lived to about age 110. Had nothing to do with the Russian Orthodox religion.They just drank about a quarter pint of vodka reilgiously per day.

935 times wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:07 PM:Ron[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:46 AM: No it wouldn't. It would make them trusting in the word of the President of the Untied States. That mistake will not be made again.

Focal Point wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:09 PM:Focal Point[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 2:38 PM: Correction: i meant American Revolutionary War.

OBAMAPREZ wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:11 PM:What I find simply amazing is the number of letters and bloggers who are still predicting doom and gloom about the Obama presidency, even though he hasn't even taken office yet, and even though every time Obama speaks the stock markets SOAR.

But then again, these are from the same people who all supported George Bush, whose leadership has trashed the economy, foreign relations and everything else.
How much credibility does a warning from these people really deserve?

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:38 PM:Well, "Prop Gr8" at 12:34PM,
no, I overslept by an hour and
precisely what is the topic of the letter by Michele Arnesen?
Hmmmm?
Could it be that I read the letters online and waited until I saw one dealing with churches, Christians and homosexuality until I submitted information with no comment made by me?
Take that chip off of your shoulder and read the text of ALL the letters before making a horse's behind out of yourself.
Regards, Alf.

Ms M wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:42 PM:MarineGunner
[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:51 PM:...so just what do you suggest? What was the name of that college that Bush recruited all those YOUNG folks from? You know the 20 - 30 yr. somethings that ran the justice department into the ground. How can this madness be straightened out without experience. Maybe "Joe the plumber" could be secretary of commerce or "Susie the hairstylist" could be secretary of state. Or maybe I could be press secretary. Or maybe "Brownie" of Katrina fame is available.

Anyone with experience is going to be a holdover from some administration or government position regardless of the party. Obama's choices have been praised by folks from both sides as being what is needed to set our country on the right course. These are economists, pulitzer prize winners you name it, whose opinions are what count - not the con bloggers who are praying that Obama fails even it means the end of our country.

You forget that the "CHANGE" that folks wanted was to get rid of Bush and the cons - NOW THAT'S CHANGE - change that folks around the world are looking to.

You know what scares the heck out of you MarineGunner? Obama is SMART. He is smart enough to surround him with folks that are smater tham him to get the job done. And what really, really scares you is that Obama can and will be successful - now that really really gets you! PATHETIC!!!!!

My Dear Sally wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:48 PM:FYI, MarineGunner, you might try googling "Mormon church pulls plug on pro-Prop. 8 calls from Utah" By Aurelio Rojas of the Sacramento Bee and see if that fills the bill.
I also take umbrage at Marines being called soldiers.

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 4:58 PM:Well, "To Alf" at 12:15PM,
I guess that the Constitution, the Geneva Conventions and the rules of engagement are worthless pieces of paper to you. Not to me.
Although you may seek the lowest possible denominator, I do not.
Regards, Alf.

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 5:03 PM:Well, "Karl" at 11:26AM,
you're right, that's a keeper.
It's gotta be before 1960, but do you have any idea what year?? (I'm a bit lazy today)
Regards, Alf.

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 5:05 PM:Umm, "Ms M" at 10:15AM,
didn't you mean 1/20/09?
Regards, Alf.

sdraoul wrote on Nov 24, 2008 5:10 PM:Those who believe the LIE about 935 or 954 alleged "lies" by Bush are really need institutionalization.

That charge came from a non-profit left-wing group totally financed by George Soros, not a "best selling book" as one contributer here posted.

If it was from a book, name it please.

But it didn't. It came indirectly from George Soros. He is not a real American, he is one in name only. he makes his money by destroying foreign economies and is workign hard to destory ours because he is "short selling" America so he can make money.

sdraoul wrote on Nov 24, 2008 5:26 PM:DD needs to know that recessions always lag behind as do recoveries. When December 31 comes along we will finally be in recession. DD and his cohort of alleged people in the know have been crying on the economic crying towel for the past several years but we are still not officially in a recession a of today.

Moreover, unemployment is not bad at 6.50%, it averaged less during Bush's years than in the Clinton years. The average recession unemployment since WWII has been slightly under 8 percent. Will we reach that this time? Possibly. Will we reach Jimmy Carter unemployment? Not a chance.

Will we reach Paul Volcker interest rates? Not a chance. Will we reach Paul Volker inflation, circa 1981-82? Not a chance. Even with higher prices a few months ago oil was not and is not in short supply as it was under Jimmy Carter.

Finally, I paid $1.74 for gas today. That, if I remember correctly, is lower than when George W. Bush took over on January 20, 2001.

Moreover, black unemployment was triple under Clinton than of whites. That has not been the case under George W.

Karl wrote on Nov 24, 2008 5:28 PM:Ron @ 3:46 PM:

Back at ya Ron!

Matching socks rule!

Peace

69qhw

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 5:32 PM:Well, "MarineGunner" at 2:07PM,
unreasonable CAFE standards???????
Are you kidding?????
The only unreasonable thing about them is that they were and are too lax.
If the "big three" had done ANYTHING except drag their feet, digging their heels in, kicking and screaming and whimpering that it can't be done, they could have met and bettered CAFE.
A great joke is the Chevy Monza with a 350 V-8 that you had to lift the engine to change the spark plugs, an insult was the Chevy Chevette (they marketed it as the Chevette Scooter) that was the size of an import and had a 4 cylinder but got 20 mpg downdill with a tailwind.
Regards, Alf.

To 935 wrote on Nov 24, 2008 5:56 PM:Thanks for the reminder that journalists have catalogued 935 lies from the Bush administration about the runup to Iraq. The book that collects these is very specific. It lists each quote and compares each one to the facts. This idea, of actually comparing very specific, quoted claims with the facts is unheard of by Bush's defenders, who speak only in either generalities or in legalese to try to show that, well, technically, that wasn't EXACTLY a lie. And this 935 were only the ones about Iraq! Just think of the books that might yet come out about Katrina, torture, secrecy, and a hundred other topics. Worst President ever, not because I simply disagree with him so often, but because of how he trampled our Constitution and our reputation around the world. Total loser. Good riddance. Hope he goes off to Paraguay or some other country where he would be protected from being arrested, and we never hear from the guy again. And Cheney twice over. The most unamerican administration in history, hands down.

Poor Mary wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:00 PM:Mary is clearly one of the hysterical ones. I don't know what motivates her intense feelings about Obama, and I don't want to know. By claiming that Obama is the worst President in history two months before he has been sworn in, she has totally and completely undone any resemblance of credibility or sanity that she might have. It is obvious that for her and her ilk, Obama could never, NEED never, do anything: he is pegged already. All we'll ever hear from her has already been heard. She's shown us that facts don't matter, it's nothing but ideology and pre-judgment on her part. G'bye Mary. Maybe if you change your moniker someone might read your posts. Good luck.

Bush got it right wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:10 PM:The anti-terrorist measures and coercive interrogation methods put in place by the Bush administration have foiled a number of terrorist plots against people who are trying to kill me and my family.

David Cutter's letter reminds us that our freedoms, including freedom of speech, are alive and well because of the steps taken by the current administration.

Thank you GWB.

jvc wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:39 PM:Why are Conservatives mean spirited?
Since the Conservatives are now gone will that mean our country will no longer be mean spirited and be more compassionate now?

ENOUGH wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:48 PM:Why should institutions be getting bailouts for the poor decisions that they've made? Government involvement in businesses is called SOCIALISM. If businesses actually cared about INTEGRITY, ACCOUNTABILITY and HONOR, they would NOT be begging the government for a bailout. This is getting ridiculous! Soon the U.S. will have as much economic influence as the poorest countries in Africa!

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:48 PM:The San Francisco Chronicle (sfgate) has an AP article entitled "Mormon aid to Prop. 8 investigated".
The plot thickens.
Regards, Alf.

Alf wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:58 PM:Well, "Bush got it right" at 6:10PM,
what planet are you from?
GWB kept us safe?
Torture kept us safe?
Poppycock!
Regards, Alf.

thanks raoul wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:59 PM:Whenever I get down on George W Bush's Presidency, reading his approval ratings, or the results of this November election, I know I can count on you to rally to Bush's side and remind us how wonderful these years have really been! Not only "have been" but "are NOW!" Despite everything that the liberal media say, unemployment is a big improvement over Clinton's years. Business is doing great! The war on terror is a smashing success! Bush is simply another in the long line of wonderful Republican Presidents that we've had, each one better by far! than recent Democrats. Thanks, Raoul! If it weren't for you, how would any of us know what's real? Is it too late to change my vote to Palin/McCain?

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:07 PM:To: Ms M,

Actually, what scares the heck out of me is if Obama does NOT live up to the hype in which so many have put their faith in.

I do not pray that Obama fails. Seriously, I hope he is capable of accomplishing what he has promised. My biggest fear is that we will be stuck with the status quo and the promises he has made will fall by the wayside like, so many politicians have done in the past.

What do I believe?

I can tell you that I do not believe that anyone with experience that is a holdover of previuous failed administration is going to bring about "change". We need an infusion of new ideas and new blood on BOTH sides of the fence. I don't have much faith in the GWB administration, nor do I have much faith in the holdovers from the Clinton administration. Why is that so hard for you to fathom?

I realise that the "change" that people wanted was a "change" from the current administration, I want that "change" as well. However, I happen to be skeptical, and I am not willing to jump on the bandwagon until proof is shown to me.
I have had enough lies fed to me from both parties that I am not going to advocate something until I see the fruits of their labor.

To: My Dear Sally:
Take all the "umbrage" you would like. Not my problem. You are free to make that differentiation. I am a Marine, and I make a distinction between the two armed forces...Whether you like it or not.

Ms M wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:09 PM:Alf
[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 5:05 PM:..thank you!

Ms M wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:14 PM:jvc
[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:39 PM:...I can remember the phrase they coined "compassionate conservative". They one many elections with that slogan. Does anyone remember hearing it from the cons this election? I guess even they realize it would be a joke.

jvc wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:26 PM:Since the Conservatives are now gone...
does that mean no more tough love?

Ms M wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:32 PM:MarineGunner
[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:07 PM:...I can tell you that I do not believe that anyone with experience that is a holdover of previuous failed administration...see, I happen to disagree with you on this matter. Clinton's administration was not a failed administration. Even after spending 8 years with Kenneth Starr - Clinton still ended his presidency with high marks. Even with impeachment his ratings were high. The economy was good. Clinton's having oral sex in the White house while Starr and company was watching his every move was actually beyond stupid.

I really don't feel that you have Obama's best interest to heart. You down him assuming he is going to be like Bush. Compare Obama's start to Bush's and you can see that there is a differnce. Do you realize the magnitude of the challenge that Obama is facing? Do you think Bush could handle this situation as Obama has. Calm, cool, smart. Who cares who they served under?

Do you remember what Bush did in the classroom when he was notified of the planes crashing into the Trade Center? It's the same thing he is doing now! Has he ever displayed any attributes of the leader of the greatest country? Obama compared to Bush is beyond presidential in EVERY area.

You may not want to jump on the bandwagon which is understandable. What's not understandable is your negative assumptions about someone who so far is moving in the right direction. Don't knock him - give him a chance.

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:34 PM:Per-zactly!!!! "ENOUGH" @6:48 PM,

It is the ultimate tact towards Hubris.
Ever since the inter-mingling of business and of government in the 1930's under FDR, it has been a catastrophe. The only thing that saved us during the years following World War II, were that the World wanted to buy American. Now, that they don't, we see that model failing, yet the structures remain. Like hardened casts unable to move, inflexible, and sloth-like, we are falling further and further behind because we are stuck with this Centralized Planning structure, thsi dinosaur people are obviously comfortable with, but need to learn to be uncomfortable in order to be competitive. Change, nobody like's.
but the kind of change being brought to Washington by NObama and the rest of the Dem's, is yet another run at a long lost system, that should be scrapped.
It no longer works.
Efficiency is the name of the game today, and those who will not change, will die. It's economic darwinism.
We will not be competitive piling on more regulations, and we will not be competitive piling on more costs.
Those who think we can, are fools.
and NOT to be followed.

Karl wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:35 PM:jvc
[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:39 PM:Why are Conservatives mean spirited?
Since the Conservatives are now gone will that mean our country will no longer be mean spirited and be more compassionate now?

Get a clue jvc. This conservative will rock out with my attitude out.

Peace

dx3ey

sdraoul wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:42 PM:"Thanks Raoul" apparently is a baby who does not know American history.

Truman had lower approval ratings than Bush at the same time int heir presidencies. Truman managed to send 34,000 Americans to their deaths in Korea in less than 24 months while Bush has managed to send 4200 in a war we won on the ground in three weeks and now in occupation.

Truman antionalized the steel industry, attempted to draft railway workers and pardoned the biggest domestic "mafioso" Demcorat politician in history. That reminds one of the Marc Rich pardon and the pardon of 16 murderous Puerto Ricvan terrorists by Clinton.

How many terrorists or fugitives has Bush pardoned.

More importantly, Bush succeeded in preventing another 9/11. Clinton managed to stand by while half a dozen "9/11s" took place and thosuands died or were wounded by Al Qaeda terrorists.

Yes, morons, the War on terror is going quite well. Al Qaeda terrorists flooded Iraq and they are now dead. That's success, morons.

sdraoul wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:46 PM:No known or responsible journalist has "documented" 935 lies allegedly told by Bush. Only a George Soros left-wing radical non-profit funded by him has tried to do so but intelligent people don;'t buy the lies told by Soros and his paid agents.

Anyone here who can produce an article written by a responsible journalist outlinign and documenteding these alleged "lies" will take my breath away.

You can't do it.

Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:46 PM:>>>Alf @6:58 PM:
Well, "Bush got it right" at 6:10PM,
what planet are you from?
GWB kept us safe?
Torture kept us safe?
Poppycock!
Regards, Alf.>>>>>

All I can say is....
This WILL be interesting.
Now, we've all had the lecture, of how Americans are despised around the world, and of how are national charactor has been waining.
Little do these people who shout about our protection of them, even know, or care about how to protect themselves.
They rant and rave about how WE do it, but.. when given the chance, they give themselves a pass. In Ron's world, the welfare recipients of America's protection, ought to just say Thank You. Instead, they critize the manner in which we deliver it.
OK, then.. have at it.
Why shouldn't we take the summer off?
And let's allow the experts who currently are being protected by us, starting protecting us.
Show us how it's done, then you can say your piece.
Until then, pony up, or shut up.
The reality is, they don't really want to know, they only want the luxury of criticism.

For those who only want to be critical, instead of picking up a gun to defend this land, I want you to read the following:
"Son, we live in a world that has walls and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and curse the Marines; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

Clearer now?

DD Wiz wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:55 PM:"sdraoul" Gets One [partially] Right
The post from "sdraoul" (5:26pm) is correct that there is a lag between the cause of a recession and the occurrence of the recession. However, his ignorance of history that I noted earlier, coupled with his blind partisanship, prevents him from applying this to the real world.
Again he dwells on inflation and high interest rates that he blames on Carter. He obviously has no memory that these began under Nixon (and his Fed Chair Arthur Burns), with Nixon's wage and price controls followed by Gerald Ford's rather silly "Whip Inflation Now" (WIN) buttons. The Nixon/Ford recession and inflation spilled onto Carter.
AGAIN, it was in his LAST YEAR as president, that Carter appointed the greatest Fed Chair in history, Paul Volcker. AS "sdraoul" CORRECTLY NOTES, there is a lag for the effect to take effect, both as to the cause and cure of the problem.
Thus, the actual benefit did not kick in until later. Paul Volcker continued as Fed Chair until 1987, through most of the Reagan years.
Undoubtedly, "sdraoul" is one of the gullible partisans who gives Reagan credit for getting inflation and interest rates under control, even though that is the purview of the Fed, guided by Paul Volcker (who is now an Obama advisor).

Similarly unable to link causes and real-world effects, "sdraoul" notes the drop in prices of gas. He fails to note that gas prices hit their peak in July. THE SAME WEEK that both liberal Al Gore and conservaive T. Boone Pickens announced alternative energy plans to make oil/gas OBSOLETE (and thus eliminate demand), terror hit the oil futures markets and prices began to plummet. Naturally "sdraoul" doesn't get the connection.
Peace, prosperity and sunshine to all, DD Wiz

jvc wrote on Nov 24, 2008 7:57 PM:If we do not balance the state budget and are deficit spending ...does that mean we are getting more services than
we are entitled to?

Bill wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:10 PM:Prosecute Bush and Cheney?

What specific cause of action?

War crimes have specific elements that must be proven with credible, relevant, and admissable evidence.

Yeah, thats an easy case to win.

Yeah right!

Bush and Cheney committed no codified war crimes.

This kind of silly nonsense is why the Obama presidency wont be succesful. He wont be able to control the nutcases in the Democratic party from going too far.

Nutcases who think that prosecuting a POTUS would strengthen America.

Only an true America hater would wish their country to have a black eye like that.

jvc wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:13 PM:So, now that the Conservatives are gone....does that mean the welfare and partying of the rich are gone? Has the welfare of the rich been more destructive to our country than the
welfare queen? Are Reagan's privilege
now gone? Does removing this privilege now make for a more equitable country?

Catastrophe wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:18 PM:Ronnie Boy at 7:34 p.m. describes the economic dominance of the U.S. economy "ever since FDR" as a catastrophe.
Of course, he also has a long record of supporting George Bush and opposing and ridiculing PRESIDENT-ELECT BARACK OBAMA.
His total detachment from reality is complete.

jvc wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:33 PM:Now that the Conservative Era is gone..
will the Conservative minded now be able to think for themselves?

oh raoul wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:38 PM:When someone publishes a quote from Bush, with the date and time and location and occasion of that quote and then publishes the facts that counter that quote, what difference could it make WHO publishes it, or WHAT the reputation of the journalist is? There's the truth, staring you right in the face: the quote vs the facts. "The US does not torture" "To wiretap you must have a court order" The quote vs the facts. Simple.

968 LIES wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:38 PM:WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush and his top aides publicly made 935 false statements about the security risk posed by Iraq in the two years following September 11, 2001, according to a study released Tuesday by two nonprofit journalism groups.
art.bush.march03.afp.gi.jpg

President Bush addresses the nation as the Iraq war begins in March 2003.

"In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003," reads an overview of the examination, conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

JCW wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:39 PM:Ron is a hoot. Is he serious? Brazenly bogus. He's got so many fingers pointing at the liberals and democrats (all the way back to FDR no less) that he must be typing these posts with his toes.
What is the point? Is he trying to change minds? If so - he should consider being a tad more respectful of the majority of Americans who have chosen a democratic president. Slamming liberals and democrats will not open their minds to your arguments - specious though they may be.

Karl wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:39 PM:jvc
[-] wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:13 PM:

Pot is still illegal

Peace

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:46 PM:to: Ms M,
*nod*
You have it mostly right.I have no love for the GWB administration, in that you can be assured. However, we obviously disagree on the minutea of politics. While I believe that the GWB administration inherited a recession from the Clinton administration, you believe the oppposite was true. I have to disagree that he (Clinton) ended his administration with high marks.

The most prominant statement that you make is that you "feel" that I have ill will towards Obama. That is not true at all. I really, truly and sincerely hope that this man can fulfill the promises he has made. My greatest fear is that he will not live up the expectations so many people have in him.

I am, and have been willing to give him a chance. As I said in previous posts: I am skeptical. I have a byline that I feel is apropos: "We'll see"

I sure hope you are around in the coming years so that we can discuss this after the fact.

Peace to you and yours.

Bill wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:47 PM:Why is it hateful to expect criminals like Bush and Cheney to be prosecuted? Why is it un-American to expect professionalism and lawful behavior form our current president? And why are you failing Obama before he has started? Using your own logic... could it be that you and the radical conservative true believers are why Bush and Cheney failed? I'm almost convinced - keep writing.

LOL Ron wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:52 PM:"...I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

PPPFFFTTTphhhht

Focal Point wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:53 PM:sdraoul[-] wrote onJ Nov 24, 2008 7:46 Journalism is not needed to prove the truth. Who care about a so called respective journalist? Raoul tries to indirectly state that since the evidence was not identified by a journalist, it has no validity. Now, thee is a moron. Every lies has been identified and documented. Read it at Center for Political Integrity. End of story.

LOL sdraoul wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:02 PM:If you really were a professional like you say you are, or even if you were moderately well-educated, like you say you are, you would not need to call people "moron" to make your point.

PS, Dubya says the war in Iraq is a success, isn't that peachy? Time to go out and celebrate!

jvc wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:06 PM:What happened? The trickle never got to me!

To Oh Raoul wrote on Nov 24, 2008 9:17 PM:"what difference could it make WHO publishes it, or WHAT the reputation of the journalist is?"

Does that mean I can use what Hannity or Rush says without havibg liberals accuse me of having no mind and just repeating lies?

I see the sheep are following liberals again wrote on Nov 24, 2008 10:50 PM:So many people think Bush messed up our economy. He didnt. Bush did not force people in bad loans. Bush didnt make lenders lend to people who cant afford it. Media hype, which caused consumers to panic and spend less, caused a downward spiral towards layoffs, even less spending, etc. The media? 90% Democrat. It is a shame many people don't get that. They are like sheep.

He Said wrote on Nov 25, 2008 4:59 AM:Actually, Alf @ 5:32 PM, I had a Chevette '79 or '80 which had a diesel engine made by a Japanese company. Got 41 mpg whether in the city or on the road. Wish I still had it.

My Dear Sally wrote on Nov 25, 2008 5:36 AM:Being a Marine who served my country in Vietnam is part of who I am, but I choose to let my words be the words of a Citizen and be judged on their own merit or lack thereof.

oh raoul wrote on Nov 25, 2008 6:57 AM:to "to oh raoul": no, what I said meant that you can quote hannity or rush and if what they said was demonstrably true, with the actual facts lined up beside them, then I certainly wouldn't slam you for it. The point is simple: there can be facts. When it's a matter of fact, it doesn't matter who reports it. It's just a fact. When Bush said "You need a court order to wiretap" while he had already put into effect a policy that skipped the warrant, that is a lie, plain and simple. If it happened to be reported by Hannity or by Soros or by the ghost of Karl Marx is not pertinent: he lied. Comprende? I believe that that Rush's of the world have some of you convinced that if information is delivered by a certain person, or a person with a certain philosophy, you should either ignore it or assume it's false based ONLY on the person who reported it. That, my friend, is pure ideological manipulation. You've been had.

But I see the sheep are following liberals again wrote on Nov 25, 2008 7:05 AM:Bush did start a war in Iraq, didn't he?
Bush's war in Iraq has cost over 700 billion so far, hasn't it?

TCMC SUPPORTER wrote on Nov 25, 2008 7:36 AM:To the person who is bagging on Tri City Hospitals board and management......Tri City Hospital is a GREAT hospital!I am sick and tired of the people who are bagging on the board ..You the voters voted them in! Take responsibility for your actions. I challenge you to go to a board meeting and see for yourself who should be there and who is "tarnished Sterling" and is disrepectful and rude, glares and snares, late to every board meeting I have been at. The management Team truely cares about the hospital. They are all well educated, caring and respectful. They deserve all the pay they recieve. As far as Scripps....maybe you should REALLY check the facts. there are 2 YES 2 sides to the story! WE LOVE TRI CITY HOSPITAL!!!!! It is a GREAT PLACE!!!!! It has caring nurses and great care!

Alf wrote on Nov 25, 2008 8:30 AM:Well, "He Said" at 4:59AM,
it sounds like it was a good car.
Speaking of consistant mileage,
our old truck/camper with a 454 under the hood did the same thing only bad, it got 6 mpg city or highway or uphill or downhill, but it never met a grade which slowed it down.
I miss the fun we had with it but I don't miss the cost of filling that beast up with its 2 tanks of 25 gallons each.
Regards, Alf.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:06 AM:Alf:

I would have responded to this sooner but I did not see your post until this morning.
I did not say the CAFE standards were unreasonable.Didn't even use that word. Way to take something out of context. I expect better from you.

Here is the sentence you are referring to:"However, you also have to lay blame on the Federal Government for instituting CAFE standards and regulations on the D3 that were unrealistic as well as giving many overseas manufactuters a pass on those same regulations and standards, all in the name of promoting a global economy."

When CAFE was instituted in 1975, the EPA developed a very weak set of tests in order to measure fuel economy. Do you realize that those tests are not accurate, nor have they been modified over the years? Thats right, the EPA is still using the substandard tests today that it was using in 1975. Talk about resisting progress. That is where unrealistic comes into play. The Fuel economy numbers you see on car stickers are a fallacy. I could go on, but I have to go get my car smogged...

bush didnt startthe war wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:39 AM:the terrorists and saddam did. also the war actually created a boom in our defense which is good for economy.

Alf wrote on Nov 25, 2008 11:06 AM:Well, "MarineGunner" at 9:06AM, did your car pass the arbitrary numbers set down by bureaucrats test?
The EPA numbers for fuel economy have been a recognized, bad joke for over 30 years
D3 (I like that abbreviation) and government (specifically government agencies) both exhibit a phenomenal amount of inertia, yet doctors (like Dr. Mrs. Alf) must keep current or lose their license. Imagine going to a doctor who still makes decisions and diagnoses based on only the medical knowledge in 1975.
But I digress, the sad fact is that D3 has effectively fallen 10 steps back because they stood almost completely still while imports made great strides.
Regards, Alf

Alf wrote on Nov 25, 2008 11:21 AM:Well, "bush didnt startthe war" at 9:39AM,
Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 or the terrorists who perpetrated 9/11,
that's a fact.
Saddam was a pain in the arse, but he neither threatened nor attacked the U.S.,
that's a fact.
GWB ordered the invasion of Iraq, that's a fact.
GWB did so with NO probable cause other than he wanted the oil and the location for military bases,
that's a fact.
Start getting facts rather than opinion from Rush and company.
Regards, Alf.

MarineGunner wrote on Nov 25, 2008 12:38 PM:To: Alf

Yep, the car passed its exam so I am now free of having to do that for the next 2 years. Yay me!

There is no doubt that the D3 did not keep stride with the overseas manufacturers and have been playing catch up. Unfortunately it is too little too late.

Focal Point wrote on Nov 25, 2008 2:25 PM:bush didnt startthe war[-] wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:39 AM: Sadam had nothing to do with Al Queda. Quit trying to link them. Sadam had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack.